Canadian deaths in Lebanon cast pall over G8 political success for Har

[gerryhatrick]

Israel is blaming the civilians, saying they were warned to get out.

A few hours is time to evacuate?

Evacuate how? To where? The airport is closed, the highways are being bombed.

[Guest Warwick Green]

They weren't so much Canadians as they were Canadians of convenience

I was born in the UK (these people were born in Lebanon). I live in Canada (they lived in Canada). Last year I visited the UK (they visited Lebanon).

If I had been killed in the 7/7 bombings I guess I would have been dismissed as a "Canadian of convenience"?

[Argus]

You are a shallow. callow adolescent full of emotional twaddle without any understanding of the world around you or what makes human beings who they are.

And you are a hateful little racist. I would give you advice, as you presume to give me, but I suspect you are hopeless.

Whaaahhh! Whahaaaaa! The world is being mean! WhaaahhhH! Go and have a good cry, Gerry, you pathetic child. Then go visit the Disney site where you'll feel more at home.

[Argus]

Out of proportion? They lob rockets into Haifa, and wiping them out is out of proportion.

Who lobbed rockets? The Lebanese government? No. So why are Lebanese troops being targetted? Why is Lebanese infrastructure being targetted?

And were rockets lobbed into Haifa before Israel began bombing?

In either event, Israel is destroying a great deal of infrastructure in Lebanon...so yes, it is out of proportion. They are far more powerful and it is not a "defense" they are engaging in but rather a punitive move.

Yes, indeed. They are teaching the Lebanese that they have "a stake" in allowing their fellow citizens to fire rockets into Israel.

Look at their new conditions before they will cease bombing Lebanon: soldiers returned unharmed, Hizbullah disarm, UN resolutions acted upon. Impossible conditions to meet in any reasonable length of time.

The Israelis are, quite reasonably, done with having Hezbollah on their borders.

Lebanon; most agree, cannot control Hisbullah anyway so they have no control over the first condition.

The only reason "Lebanon" can't control Hezbolah, which, btw, is made up entirely of Lebanese, is because of the strong support in Lebanon for Hezbolah.

[Argus]

The U.S. and France are moving already to move their ciitizens. The Canadian government now estimates that there are 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon. Even with a dozen ships, the Canadians could not be taken out in a timely fashion.

Lebanon has long been a "source country" for immiration, so there'll be an awful lot of "canadians" there. This is going to happen whenever one of the source countries suffers a major calamaty. God knows how many "Canadians" are in Hong Kong, for example.

[Argus]

Israel is blaming the civilians, saying they were warned to get out.

A few hours is time to evacuate?

Evacuate how? To where? The airport is closed, the highways are being bombed.

It was more warning than people in Haifa got. At least the Israelis are aiming at Hezbollah and infrastrucfture, while the Lebanese are simply aiming at civilian cities and towns.

But then, people like you never seem to care when Jews are targeted and killed, civilian or military. I never see any sorrow or righteous indignation then.

I wonder why that is.

[gerryhatrick]

Four posts in a row. The hateful little racist is just itching for someone to play with.

Lebanese Canadians = non-Canadians.

Dead Canadians = too bad so sad.

What else should we play racist boy?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The nation of Israel has a sovereign right to defend itself. So does Lebanon, go figure. If the citizens of one nation cause harm to the other nation a state of war may be experienced by both sides. That is the reality. The citizens that launched rockets into Israel are the ones guilty of causing harm to the rest of their fellow citizens. The ones that kidnapped Israel Army personal were the ones that started the problem in the first place. Lebanon is filled with Lebanese, some will be from this group or that group but they are all Lebanese. One citizen with a gun can be merely a criminal, but a citizen with a rocket is a member of a military organization. If a country has a rogue element within it that has a stand alone military group not accountable to the government they have a problem. The international community only supports nations, not war lords, so it would have been better for the Lebanese government to act in its own interests and deal with this rogue element. The Lebanese have decided not to take care or their own business and now somebody has to deal with the mess the Lebanese government has left laying around.

If you really have to have somebody to blame, blame the government of Lebanon.

[August1991]

In either event, Israel is destroying a great deal of infrastructure in Lebanon...so yes, it is out of proportion. They are far more powerful and it is not a "defense" they are engaging in but rather a punitive move.

You know, Gerry, I think that explains your opinion. You view the Israelis as big, powerful and dominant and you view the Arabs as weak and oppressed. Your instinct is to side with the weaker whom you call the victim.

----

Incidentally, Aitaroun, the village where these people were killed, is 3 km north of the Israeli border.

[Argus]

Four posts in a row. The hateful little racist is just itching for someone to play with.

Lebanese Canadians = non-Canadians.

Dead Canadians = too bad so sad.

?

Gerryhatrick = pathetic Jew-hating halfwit

[Greg]

Let's all step back and re-evaluate the situation - calling each other racists isn't solving anything, other than getting yourselves abit closer to be either suspended or banned from these forums.

Make use of the preview function and consider the consequences of posting insults. This is an emotionally charged issue and recent events in the middle-east have inflamed the issue even more - so I'm giving those of you who have been using insults, like "racist," "jew-hater," a warning instead of removing you.

[Black Dog]

It was more warning than people in Haifa got. At least the Israelis are aiming at Hezbollah and infrastrucfture, while the Lebanese are simply aiming at civilian cities and towns.

According to witnesses and photographs from the scene of the worst incident, an Israeli missile incinerated a car and a small truck full of families leaving their Lebanese border village of Marwaheen near Tyre after the Israeli army used loudhailers to tell residents they had just hours to go.

[Argus]

It was more warning than people in Haifa got. At least the Israelis are aiming at Hezbollah and infrastrucfture, while the Lebanese are simply aiming at civilian cities and towns.

According to witnesses and photographs from the scene of the worst incident, an Israeli missile incinerated a car and a small truck full of families leaving their Lebanese border village of Marwaheen near Tyre after the Israeli army used loudhailers to tell residents they had just hours to go.

You can insinuate that Israelis are deliberately targeting civilians, but I find it unlikely. These situations are almost certainly accidents.

However, there is no shred of doubt that Hezbollah are targeting civilians, and that doesn't seem to be causing anyone undue stress.

[Black Dog]

You can insinuate that Israelis are deliberately targeting civilians, but I find it unlikely. These situations are almost certainly accidents.

However, there is no shred of doubt that Hezbollah are targeting civilians, and that doesn't seem to be causing anyone undue stress.

It's a difference of capabilities. Hizbullah's attacks are a nuiscance and have rarely caused Israeli casualties. Israel possesses a far greater capacity to kill. IOW Israel's accidents are deadlier than Hizbullah's deliberate attempts to cause harm.

Also: I haven't seen any one endorse Hizbullah's attacks on civilian targets, so I haven't the faintest idea where you get the idea that they "seem to be causing anyone undue stress".

[Argus]

You can insinuate that Israelis are deliberately targeting civilians, but I find it unlikely. These situations are almost certainly accidents.

However, there is no shred of doubt that Hezbollah are targeting civilians, and that doesn't seem to be causing anyone undue stress.

It's a difference of capabilities. Hizbullah's attacks are a nuiscance and have rarely caused Israeli casualties. Israel possesses a far greater capacity to kill. IOW Israel's accidents are deadlier than Hizbullah's deliberate attempts to cause harm.

Also: I haven't seen any one endorse Hizbullah's attacks on civilian targets, so I haven't the faintest idea where you get the idea that they "seem to be causing anyone undue stress".

I haven't seen anyone wringing their hands in agony over them either. The usual suspects only seem to be concerned with Lebanese casualties and calling Israel names.

[Michael Hardner]

I haven't seen anyone wringing their hands in agony over them either. The usual suspects only seem to be concerned with Lebanese casualties and calling Israel names.

Argus - I guess you'll have to forgive us as we expect better behavior from a supposedly responsible state than criminals.

[Black Dog]

I haven't seen anyone wringing their hands in agony over them either. The usual suspects only seem to be concerned with Lebanese casualties and calling Israel names.

If one guy murders one guy, and another guy murders a dozen others, which guy is gonna be on the front page?

[cybercoma]

Israel's accidents are deadlier than Hizbullah's deliberate attempts to cause harm.

Not that it matters, but I wonder what carries a harsher legal penalty.....attempted murder or criminal negligence causing death.

[Black Dog]

Not that it matters, but I wonder what carries a harsher legal penalty.....attempted murder or criminal negligence causing death.

Fair point about intent. But things get a bit blurry when you start trying to differentiate between, say, firing a gun into a crowd at random, and firing at one person in the crowd with the full knowledge that your actions will likely result in some random person being killed. Both are crimes characterized by a callous disregard for the innocent.

[Argus]

I haven't seen anyone wringing their hands in agony over them either. The usual suspects only seem to be concerned with Lebanese casualties and calling Israel names.

Argus - I guess you'll have to forgive us as we expect better behavior from a supposedly responsible state than criminals.

And you're getting it. If all the Israelis wanted to do was kill civilians, like Hezbollah is doing, there'd be thousands dead already. You'd see apartment buildings collapsing by the dozens after every raid.

[Argus]

I haven't seen anyone wringing their hands in agony over them either. The usual suspects only seem to be concerned with Lebanese casualties and calling Israel names.

If one guy murders one guy, and another guy murders a dozen others, which guy is gonna be on the front page?

Hezbollah has fired over a thousand missiles into civilian areas in Israel. The only reason the death toll isn't higher is because they're incompetent savages.

[Argus]

The U.S. and France are moving already to move their ciitizens. The Canadian government now estimates that there are 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon. Even with a dozen ships, the Canadians could not be taken out in a timely fashion.

Apparently (the Star) the vast majority of these "Canadians" live there permanently and it is believed unlikely they will want to leave. Perhaps 5,000 "Canadians, will want to get out.

[Black Dog]

And you're getting it. If all the Israelis wanted to do was kill civilians, like Hezbollah is doing, there'd be thousands dead already. You'd see apartment buildings collapsing by the dozens after every raid.

No one is claiming Israel is intentionally targetting civilians. I would suggest, however, it doesn't care all that much if a few do bite it, or it presumes the benefits of bombing targets within civilian areas far outweigh any casualties those actions would cause. For the dead, its a distinction without a difference.

[gerryhatrick]

In either event, Israel is destroying a great deal of infrastructure in Lebanon...so yes, it is out of proportion. They are far more powerful and it is not a "defense" they are engaging in but rather a punitive move.

You know, Gerry, I think that explains your opinion. You view the Israelis as big, powerful and dominant and you view the Arabs as weak and oppressed. Your instinct is to side with the weaker whom you call the victim.

The Israelis are powerful and dominent over their enemy in this situation. Do you not it that way?

I do not view "the Arabs" (um..do you equate all Arabs with Hezbollah?) as weak and oppressed. Hezbollah is lobbing rockets and they are killing people. Hezbollah did kidnap soldiers accross the border and they did ambush the rescue attempt and kill several soldiers.

I am not siding with anyone, I am stating the facts. The fact is that Israel is kicking the crap out of Lebanon in a manner that is disproportionate to the damage being done to themselves.

Ask yourself this: why are all nations scrambling to get their citizens out of Lebanon, but not Israel?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

If I had any friends or relatives visiting Israel I would warn them to leave, wouldn't you? I think that it is very likely that Lebanon will see a drastic reduction in their infrastructure unless they get their act together and do something about terrorism.