Israel Invades Lebanon

[jdobbin]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/12/mideast/index.html

Yeesh. All hell's breaking loose there. Just when you think it couldn't get worse.

[GostHacked]

Indeed WTFF is going on over there. This operation must have had some big planning. Lebanon?? I thought it was .. Gaza... ummm :angry:

[Argus]

Indeed WTFF is going on over there. This operation must have had some big planning. Lebanon?? I thought it was .. Gaza... ummm :angry:

I think what the Israelis need to do is go in there with tanks to clear out all the Arabs within several miles of its borders, then bulldozers to wipe out every building, every house, every shed, then drop agent orange to kill every bit of vegetation, plant mines, and make it clear that anyone seen in the area will be shot on sight.

See how long the southern Lebanese villagers will be dancing and setting off firecrackers in celebration of THAT.

[Black Dog]

I think...

No. You don't.

[jdobbin]

Indeed WTFF is going on over there. This operation must have had some big planning. Lebanon?? I thought it was .. Gaza... ummm :angry:

I think what the Israelis need to do is go in there with tanks to clear out all the Arabs within several miles of its borders, then bulldozers to wipe out every building, every house, every shed, then drop agent orange to kill every bit of vegetation, plant mines, and make it clear that anyone seen in the area will be shot on sight.

See how long the southern Lebanese villagers will be dancing and setting off firecrackers in celebration of THAT.

I see much of Lebanon as a victim of decades of big powers tossing them about. Syria and Israel have contributed to the instability. I think many Lebanese just want to be Labanese but factions supported by big powers make things miserable.

[Argus]

I see much of Lebanon as a victim of decades of big powers tossing them about. Syria and Israel have contributed to the instability. I think many Lebanese just want to be Labanese but factions supported by big powers make thins miserable.

There's some truth in that. However, there has to be massive support for terrorism in order to allow Lebanon to continue to be a major base for the likes of Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. Hezbollah even has MPs and a member in the Lebanese cabinet. So Israel has every right to simply push them off all the land near its borders, as far as a rocket can fly, if necessary, then render the land uninhabitable to use as a buffer.

They should do the same to the Palestinians. If they want to keep firing rockets into Israel, the Israelis should push them off the land near its borders, shove them all across the border into Egypt if necessary.

They should stop allowing Hezbollah and other terrorist leaders to shelter in Syria. Wherever they are, the Israelis should hammer them. If the leader of Hezbollah is sheltering in the Syrian president's palace, bomb it to rubble.

[GostHacked]

Argus I am sure all that has worked in the past. Or has it?

[Argus]

Argus I am sure all that has worked in the past. Or has it?

Isreal has taken over territory in the past to act as a buffer, but it hasn't taken the all-important step of expelling the people living on that land. With Arabs on the land you have constant trouble, riots, terrorism, etc. Render the land uninhabitable. Lay landmines by the tens of thousands, and then use sensors, artillery, snipers and helicopter gunships to kill anything that goes into that territory. That approach absolves you of the need to have checkpoints and road blocks which are nothing more than magnets for rioters and terrorist attacks.

IMHO they ought to just shove all the Palestinians in Gaza into Egypt and let the Egyptians deal with them from now on.

[Black Dog]

Isreal has taken over territory in the past to act as a buffer, but it hasn't taken the all-important step of expelling the people living on that land. With Arabs on the land you have constant trouble, riots, terrorism, etc. Render the land uninhabitable. Lay landmines by the tens of thousands, and then use sensors, artillery, snipers and helicopter gunships to kill anything that goes into that territory. That approach absolves you of the need to have checkpoints and road blocks which are nothing more than magnets for rioters and terrorist attacks.

IMHO they ought to just shove all the Palestinians in Gaza into Egypt and let the Egyptians deal with them from now on.

Or someone could just nuke Israel and solve the whole problem. Oh wait! That would make one an "anti-semite". But if you're talking about ethnic cleansing of any other race, that's totally cool.

In all seriousness, I'm sure turning Israel into an armed camp would make it oh-so much more attractive to potential investors and immigrants. Not to mention the burden it would place on the economy. It would be cute, though, like a little North Korea in the Middle East. Only Jewish.

[Argus]

Isreal has taken over territory in the past to act as a buffer, but it hasn't taken the all-important step of expelling the people living on that land. With Arabs on the land you have constant trouble, riots, terrorism, etc. Render the land uninhabitable. Lay landmines by the tens of thousands, and then use sensors, artillery, snipers and helicopter gunships to kill anything that goes into that territory. That approach absolves you of the need to have checkpoints and road blocks which are nothing more than magnets for rioters and terrorist attacks.

IMHO they ought to just shove all the Palestinians in Gaza into Egypt and let the Egyptians deal with them from now on.

Or someone could just nuke Israel

Now you're just fantasising aloud.

and solve the whole problem. Oh wait! That would make one an "anti-semite". But if you're talking about ethnic cleansing of any other race, that's totally cool.

This has nothing whatever to do with the ethnicity of the people living there. It would not matter if they were Polish Catholics or Swahili speaking African sun worshipers. It is their behaviour, their violence, their unremiting attacks on Israel which gives Israel the moral authority to cleanse the land of their presence, doing so only for its own safety.

In all seriousness, I'm sure turning Israel into an armed camp would make it oh-so much more attractive to potential investors and immigrants.

Israel has been an armed camp for decades.

Not to mention the burden it would place on the economy.

I see no particular burden in cleansing the border areas.

It would be cute, though, like a little North Korea in the Middle East. Only Jewish.

When Israel starts up its concentration camps and starts slaughtering people by the tens of thousands every year, you might have a case.

BTW, you have shown no particular antipathy or worry about North Korea. So why does Israel bother you?

[Black Dog]

This has nothing whatever to do with the ethnicity of the people living there. It would not matter if they were Polish Catholics or Swahili speaking African sun worshipers. It is their behaviour, their violence, their unremiting attacks on Israel which gives Israel the moral authority to cleanse the land of their presence, doing so only for its own safety.

Sorry, I dozed off there right around "israel" and "moral authority."

When Israel starts up its concentration camps and starts slaughtering people by the tens of thousands every years...

I just know you typed that bit with only one hand on the keyboard.

[GostHacked]

Argus.

This has nothing whatever to do with the ethnicity of the people living there. It would not matter if they were Polish Catholics or Swahili speaking African sun worshipers. It is their behaviour, their violence, their unremiting attacks on Israel which gives Israel the moral authority to cleanse the land of their presence, doing so only for its own safety.

Nothing to do with Jews, or Arabs, so this is not about ethnicity/religion ect? It is all about those darn terrorists hurting the poor Jews??

EVERYONE seems to forget and continue to ignore the fact and circumstances that brought Isreal into existance, which was created from occupied Palestine territories.

Which is really important to consider when looking at this conflict and how long it has been going on. BOTH SIDES are to blame for this. Also this crap with those two groups have been going on since Isreal was created from occupied Palestine territories.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Somebody attacks a sovereign nation they suffer the consequences determined by the party being attacked. As for going in occuping and leveling several miles of "buffer zone", that is raiseing the bar a tadd don't you think?

One thing that is certain is that there is more going on than what is visible on the surface. The US just suggested that both Syria and Iran have something to do with this. Things are becoming very complicated over there. It is not as simple as giving land for peace, that just isn't working is it?

[Argus]

This has nothing whatever to do with the ethnicity of the people living there. It would not matter if they were Polish Catholics or Swahili speaking African sun worshipers. It is their behaviour, their violence, their unremiting attacks on Israel which gives Israel the moral authority to cleanse the land of their presence, doing so only for its own safety.

Sorry, I dozed off there right around "israel" and "moral authority."

Cause you don't think Jews can be moral?

[Argus]

This has nothing whatever to do with the ethnicity of the people living there. It would not matter if they were Polish Catholics or Swahili speaking African sun worshipers. It is their behaviour, their violence, their unremiting attacks on Israel which gives Israel the moral authority to cleanse the land of their presence, doing so only for its own safety.

Nothing to do with Jews, or Arabs, so this is not about ethnicity/religion ect? It is all about those darn terrorists hurting the poor Jews??

If the Palestinians and Lebanese can't police their land sufficient to keep people from launching rocket attacks on Israel then they don't deserve to have that land. This is not a concept which ought to confuse anyone. If rocket attacks were coming across the Mexican border into Texas and California every day the US would give the Mexican authorities only so much time to get their act together, then they'd take care of the problem themselves. And you can substitute any international border you want between any two nations you like. No nation on earth will tolerate that for long. There is no reason to expect Israel to behave any differently.

EVERYONE seems to forget and continue to ignore the fact and circumstances that brought Isreal into existance, which was created from occupied Palestine territories.

No one forgets it. It's simply completely irrelevent. Unless you plan on making a time machine and travelling back to try and get the UN not to divide the land into two, or to get the Arabs not to repeatedly attack Isreal, thus losing a big chunk of the Arab half, or to get Jordan and Egypt to not take more big chunks of the Arab section for themselves, then I don't see the point of even bringing it up.

[GostHacked]

Argus

If rocket attacks were coming across the Mexican border into Texas and California every day the US would give the Mexican authorities only so much time to get their act together, then they'd take care of the problem themselves. And you can substitute any international border you want between any two nations you like. No nation on earth will tolerate that for long. There is no reason to expect Israel to behave any differently.

Is the United States occupying a large portion of Mexico?? Try another argument.

[Argus]

Argus

If rocket attacks were coming across the Mexican border into Texas and California every day the US would give the Mexican authorities only so much time to get their act together, then they'd take care of the problem themselves. And you can substitute any international border you want between any two nations you like. No nation on earth will tolerate that for long. There is no reason to expect Israel to behave any differently.

Is the United States occupying a large portion of Mexico?? Try another argument.

It really doesn't matter what the provocation is, real or imagined. No state is going to stand for it.

And it is hardly a persuasive argument for Israel to free up the occupied territories when every time it moves out of one and lets' its inhabitants govern themselves the Arabs use the newly freed territory as a base to fire rockets and mortars into Israel proper.

[Riverwind]

Is the United States occupying a large portion of Mexico?? Try another argument.

Argus is right. The Isrealis are occupying Lebanon for the reasons he stated. If a state is not able or willing to prevent attacks against a neighboring state by rogue elements within their state then they have no right to complain when their neighbor invades to do the job that they should have been doing.

[BHS]

Is the United States occupying a large portion of Mexico?? Try another argument.

Depends on who you ask. Viva la raca!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I feel bad for anybody that is not involved in this conflict that now finds themselves in a war zone. By the same token those individuals that are involved do so at their own peril. If I was calling the ball in Israel this time I would not let outside opinions stop me from doing what needs to been done, and that is settle this thing once and for all. Give the Palestinians a choice, they can either live in peace or leave in shame. The have a country in Gaza, they can forget the West Bank because this is the price they will pay for peace. Now is the time for a last chance olive branch. The choice is simple, outright war or complete peace with a land of their own.

If the choice is peace, then pay for all the property in the West Bank and evict and transport them to Gaza. If the choice is war allow all non-combatants to leave their homes in the West Bank in peace and then go elsewhere at their own expense with only their lives, before destroying Gaza. Let no stone be left untouched by the destructive choice they made for themselves in Gaza.

Is this harsh, yes. However it provides freedom of choice, which is far more than they have ever given Israel.

[gc1765]

Is the United States occupying a large portion of Mexico?? Try another argument.

Mexican Cession

[I miss Reagan]

Isreal has taken over territory in the past to act as a buffer, but it hasn't taken the all-important step of expelling the people living on that land. With Arabs on the land you have constant trouble, riots, terrorism, etc. Render the land uninhabitable. Lay landmines by the tens of thousands, and then use sensors, artillery, snipers and helicopter gunships to kill anything that goes into that territory. That approach absolves you of the need to have checkpoints and road blocks which are nothing more than magnets for rioters and terrorist attacks.

IMHO they ought to just shove all the Palestinians in Gaza into Egypt and let the Egyptians deal with them from now on.

Or someone could just nuke Israel and solve the whole problem. Oh wait! That would make one an "anti-semite". But if you're talking about ethnic cleansing of any other race, that's totally cool.

In all seriousness, I'm sure turning Israel into an armed camp would make it oh-so much more attractive to potential investors and immigrants. Not to mention the burden it would place on the economy. It would be cute, though, like a little North Korea in the Middle East. Only Jewish.

In all seriousness Black Dog, perhaps you should look into the history of why Israel has to be an "armed camp". Perhaps being attacked on 4 fronts by all of its neighbouring countries on more than one occasion is a good reason to be armed to the teeth. Perhaps its the continous comments by countries like Iran that threaten to exterminate them with the nukes they are building. Or maybe because none of the surrounding countries think they even have a right to exist on their tiny 22,000 square kilometers, and want to push them into the sea. Maybe it's just all the Neville Chamberlains in the world, such as your self who won't allow Israel to defend themselves but would rather they lay down and die. What is it Black Dog, ignorance or hatred? I think its obviously the later given your absurd "ethnic cleansing" statement.

[Black Dog]

In all seriousness Black Dog, perhaps you should look into the history of why Israel has to be an "armed camp". Perhaps being attacked on 4 fronts by all of its neighbouring countries on more than one occasion is a good reason to be armed to the teeth. Perhaps its the continous comments by countries like Iran that threaten to exterminate them with the nukes they are building. Or maybe because none of the surrounding countries think they even have a right to exist on their tiny 22,000 square kilometers, and want to push them into the sea. Maybe it's just all the Neville Chamberlains in the world, such as your self who won't allow Israel to defend themselves but would rather they lay down and die. What is it Black Dog, ignorance or hatred? I think its obviously the later given your absurd "ethnic cleansing" statement.

See, I know Israel's history. A radical neocolonial experiment in ethno-religious nationalism built on stolen land. The reason Israel has never known peace is because it's history and its ideological underpinings make peace impossible. Quite simply, Israel was founded on the belief that Jews have an inherent right to the land, thus there was no need to acquire the land through just means, nor was there need to consider those actualy living there. It's ironic that the country that was meant be a safe haven for Jews has made them even more of a target of hate and fear. That has nothing to do with the race or religion of the people who make up the nation, but everything to do with the actions and ideology of the state.

As an aside, it's amusing that some posters can slime entire populations and cravelny whinge that their race doesn't matter (even though its part of a pattern of antipathy towards said population), but when I speak out against a state (and not a people), it's regarded as a sign of some racial hatred. IOW: fuck you.

[Black Dog]

Speaking now to the actual crisis at hand, I've no doubt that Israel has the right to act in self-defence. However, there's also no question that its actions (such as bombing Beirut airport and other parts of Lebanon not adjacent to Israeli teritory) are a disproportinate response to Hizbullah's aggression.

[GostHacked]

Speaking now to the actual crisis at hand, I've no doubt that Israel has the right to act in self-defence. However, there's also no question that its actions (such as bombing Beirut airport and other parts of Lebanon not adjacent to Israeli teritory) are a disproportinate response to Hizbullah's aggression.

Not only that you have a naval blockade of Lebanon, and more air strikes are going to happen. Also the rhetoric now has moved away from Hamas (who really was the focus at the start) and now moved to Hezbolah. President Bush also blames Syria for these actions. Syria? I though.. wait wait wait.. it does not matter what I though.

Hamas digs tunnel to Israeli outpost, kills some captures on.

Israel amasses troops and tanks at the border.

- bridges, power plant, foreign ministry attacked.

Suposedly Hezbola captures Israeli soldiers.

Israel bombs airport, naval base, hundreds of other targes PLUS a naval blockade.

Syria is thrown into the mix along with a mention of Iran.

Now really, all this over a captured soldier. Hamas made a military strike this time, and many civilians payed the price for that action. Even talk about Hezbolah taking the hostages to Iran. Wonder how they will pull that off.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/13/...in1798784.shtml

Israel has information that Lebanese guerrillas who captured two Israeli soldiers are trying to transfer them to Iran, Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Thursday.

Why to Iran? Would they be safe there? Or would that give Israel another target? Something does not make sense here at all.

Then there was the prision break from Israel, they entered Gaza to capture some prisoners that were about to be released, and were considered a threat to Israel, now they sit in an Israeli jail, after their terms have been served.