Canadian patriotism and nationalism

[Leafless]

Are the words patriotism and nationalism in Canada misnomers?

How can Canadian nationalism even apply when the word 'nationalism' is more effectively used describing Quebecer's ideologies towards their province as Quebecer's first and to some Quebecers perhaps Canadians secondly?

How can Canadian patronage apply when our own federal government continually panders to Quebec nationalism thus destroying any patriotic feelings one may have for this country?

Our own federal government promotes 'multiculturalism' over the aspect of being assimilated and thus destroys the basic requirement of becoming patriotic to the country of Canada.

How can any Canadian be loyal or patriotic to this country when our federal government lacks the fortitude and cannot demonstrate that the federal government itself is capable of supporting and propagating Canadian nationalism and patriotism?

In my own family concerning people from other countries as Canadians have no concern for Canada and in fact are raising their children to be fluent in languages other than English or French with an associated identity from their source country that predominates Canadian culture and lifestyle. This includes a single motivation to fulfill their greedy aspirations to fullfill their personal lifestyle as foreigners from another country under a non-existent Canadian identity.

How many others are doing the same or similar?

Would you put your life on the line and fight for this country if ask to?

[Charles Anthony]

Would you put your life on the line and fight for this country if ask to?

No. Not until I know who is asking.

However, I would fight for my neighbor and my NHL hockey team.

How can any Canadian be loyal or patriotic to this country when our federal government lacks the fortitude and cannot demonstrate that the federal government itself is capable of supporting and propagating Canadian nationalism and patriotism?

How can patriotism be swayed by what a "government" does?

[Leafless]

How can patriotism be swayed by what a "government" does?

A government represents the country and in our case it's the federal government.

The government should lead in a way that creates in each and every one of us a common national identity that relates to the creation of this country and it's traditions and one that we should be proud of from the main distinguishing factor which is freedom and democracy which was given to us in the form of the BNA Act.

This country has never recognized this factor fully and preferred to dwell on factors that cause and PROMOTE disunity.

The failure of the federal government to correct this in the early stages resulted IMO a series of major constitutional errors that has resulted in a dysfunctional federal government as well as produced a severe lack of loyality and nationalism to the country of Canada, which will be hard if not impossible to reverse.

[Liam]

Our own federal government promotes 'multiculturalism' over the aspect of being assimilated and thus destroys the basic requirement of becoming patriotic to the country of Canada.

I'd argue that a nation need not be homogenous for its people to be capable to national pride. The US is very multicultural, yet the world thinks we're ridiculous in our national pride.

[MightyAC]

Our own federal government promotes 'multiculturalism' over the aspect of being assimilated and thus destroys the basic requirement of becoming patriotic to the country of Canada.

I agree with Liam. Why is assimilation necessary for patriotism? Do you think all Americans speak English? Do you think the people living in little Havana, little Italy or the thousands of Spanish communities

don't have an associated identity from their source country that predominates being American?

[BHS]

I agree with Liam. Why is assimilation necessary for patriotism?

Liam describes America as multicultural, which is true in that the cultural traditions of many foreign cultures have become American mainstays as new immigrant populations have been absorbed. But America's official policy vis-a-vis immigration has always been assimilationist. "The Great American Melting Pot" description comes to mind immediately. I work with a guy who just became a Canadian citizen, so I'll ask him what was required, but I believe the American requirements are a good deal more stringent, and new immigrants are encouraged by a variety of means to learn English and adopt American customs.

Do you think all Americans speak English? Do you think the people living in little Havana, little Italy or the thousands of Spanish communities

don't have an associated identity from their source country that predominates being American?

If a foreign identity supercedes one's American identity in a person's mind, how that person honestly claim to be an American patriot?

[August1991]

A government represents the country and in our case it's the federal government.

The government should lead in a way that creates in each and every one of us a common national identity that relates to the creation of this country and it's traditions and one that we should be proud of from the main distinguishing factor which is freedom and democracy which was given to us in the form of the BNA Act.

Leafless, what you have written is not only wrong, it is even terrifying.

If the 20th century teaches anything, it is the grave error awaiting any people who confuses country and government.

There is far, far more to Canada than the federal government.

[geoffrey]

If each government created the ideal national identity, we'd never need elections. Positions sway, change, are changed. There will never be common national identity in Canada. You've got people in stripped shirts driving Vespa's while eatting Cheese in Quebec (ok, I'm only kidding), this morning I had to stop my car for a freaking horse crossing in Calgary (not kidding), and in Toronto we have people that talk 10000 miles a second and drink Starbucks incessently.

It's easy for a central Canadian to believe in a Canadian identity, the CBC and MSM tells you that you are Canadian, that your image is the ideal Canadian. But I can tell you that someone in Quebec, Alberta, BC or the Maritimes, would quickly disagree.

Descibe to me Leafless, the ideal Canadian, what we should all aspire to be. And I gaurntee you that everyone from outside of Ontario on this forum will disagree to varying extents.

Canada is too big and too diversely cultured to have a common identity, let alone nationalism or patriotism. Central Canadian ideals don't work for me, probably don't work for Quebecois, and unlikely are compatible with the maritime way of life.

[Leafless]

A government represents the country and in our case it's the federal government.

The government should lead in a way that creates in each and every one of us a common national identity that relates to the creation of this country and it's traditions and one that we should be proud of from the main distinguishing factor which is freedom and democracy which was given to us in the form of the BNA Act.

Leafless, what you have written is not only wrong, it is even terrifying.

If the 20th century teaches anything, it is the grave error awaiting any people who confuses country and government.

There is far, far more to Canada than the federal government.

Then surley August, you must be making reference to the Queen of Canada.

[Leafless]

Descibe to me Leafless, the ideal Canadian, what we should all aspire to be. And I gaurntee you that everyone from outside of Ontario on this forum will disagree to varying extents.

Canada is too big and too diversely cultured to have a common identity, let alone nationalism or patriotism. Central Canadian ideals don't work for me, probably don't work for Quebecois, and unlikely are compatible with the maritime way of life.

You are misusing the words "common idenities" to justify in your mnd a way out as to not support Canadian nationalism or patrotism.

The one word that is missing is the word national and when included in your phrase would read "common national identities".

Canada is multicultural like the U.S. and we all can relate to stories regarding our ancestry but the important factor is not to allow our previous ancestry to predominate our Canadian nationalism when applied to nationalism and patriotism and dedication to the very country we are living and thriving in with the most important factor being freedom and democracy.

No doubt we all owe the country of Canada big time and can express our appreciation with Canadian nationalism and loyality.

[Liam]

Liam describes America as multicultural, which is true in that the cultural traditions of many foreign cultures have become American mainstays as new immigrant populations have been absorbed. But America's official policy vis-a-vis immigration has always been assimilationist. "The Great American Melting Pot" description comes to mind immediately. I work with a guy who just became a Canadian citizen, so I'll ask him what was required, but I believe the American requirements are a good deal more stringent, and new immigrants are encouraged by a variety of means to learn English and adopt American customs...

If a foreign identity supercedes one's American identity in a person's mind, how that person honestly claim to be an American patriot?

The "melting pot" analogy is not nearly as apt today as it was when the phrase was coined a century (or more) ago. Today, the US is more like a stew pot -- the different vegetables and meats remain some of their original shape and color, but they meld together in a common dish. My ex (who just became a US citizen, he's originally from Ontario) always referred to Canada as a mosaic. While mosaics are beautiful, they are still a collection of separate and distinct parts that only ever really form the whole when viewed from afar. In a mosaic society, there is a greater likelihood of pockets of isolation and permanent distinction from what is common to all. Personally, I prefer the stew pot where some kind of commonality develops and the parts bleed together a bit. (OK, I will stop with any food analogies, as someone jabbed me about in another thread!!)

While I disagree with the melting pot notion, I will concede that the US is probably more of an assimilationist society than Canada. I think our immigrants adopt a middle-road identity: very proud to be a Chinese-American or Brazilian-American or Irish-American. And while many immigrants may move initially to their new city's Little Mumbai (or what have you), it is very common to see them display

A friend's mother-in-law, a 70+ year old Egyptian woman, just became a US citizen. I think she only speaks a smattering of English, so I do not think English speaking skills are required to become a US citizen. Given some of the immigration issues going on now, however, I suspect that if English is not needed now, it might soon be.

[Leafless]

A friend's mother-in-law, a 70+ year old Egyptian woman, just became a US citizen. I think she only speaks a smattering of English, so I do not think English speaking skills are required to become a US citizen. Given some of the immigration issues going on now, however, I suspect that if English is not needed now, it might soon be.

Gads Liam, you better tell your friends mother-in-law to quickly learn English.

The U.S. recognizes English is being jeopardized and the U.S. Senate has just declared English the "national language' just a step away from making English the official language of the U.S.A.

By the way there are already 27-states that have already passed legislation declaring English as the "official language" of that state. Hope your friends mother-in-law doesn't live in one of those states.

But this is really no different than in Canada where as language is a provincial responsibility and as the case in Quebec who as made French the official language of Quebec.

So it's here to in Canada and will be just a matter of time before other provinces in Canada take the language leap and make their province "officially English" to help protect the English language and it's user's against possible linguistic interference by the federal government and their promoting the French language.

This has happened in the Ottawa, Ontario area where many English speakers now have to learn French to get a job not only federally but locally as well concerning private buisness.

[Charles Anthony]

Canada is multicultural like the U.S. and we all can relate to stories regarding our ancestry but the important factor is not to allow our previous ancestry to predominate our Canadian nationalism when applied to nationalism and patriotism and dedication to the very country we are living and thriving in with the most important factor being freedom and democracy.

What exactly do you want?

No doubt we all owe the country of Canada big time and can express our appreciation with Canadian nationalism and loyality.

As far as who owes who, I see things in the reverse: give me my taxes back.

Gads Liam, you better tell your friends mother-in-law to quickly learn English.

Or else what?

[geoffrey]

You are misusing the words "common idenities" to justify in your mnd a way out as to not support Canadian nationalism or patrotism.

The one word that is missing is the word national and when included in your phrase would read "common national identities".

Canada is multicultural like the U.S. and we all can relate to stories regarding our ancestry but the important factor is not to allow our previous ancestry to predominate our Canadian nationalism when applied to nationalism and patriotism and dedication to the very country we are living and thriving in with the most important factor being freedom and democracy.

No doubt we all owe the country of Canada big time and can express our appreciation with Canadian nationalism and loyality.

Why do we owe Canada anything? Are our taxes not enough? I don't see how waving a flag off the front of my garage betters anyone's life. Seems like a wasteful exercise to me.

I agree that you should leave your ancestory at the door, so to speak. But nationalism is just so foolish in of itself. Let's just leave that at the door too. It's foolish to believe that one place is better because of it's name.

I just don't see the point. I didn't choose to be born here, why must I be grateful to Canada? Maybe to God for allowing me to be born into such a prosperous area, but Canada did nothing out of it's way for me.

[Drea]

Thank your ancestors for moving here instead of North Korea or some other really grrrreat country.

[Leafless]

You are misusing the words "common idenities" to justify in your mnd a way out as to not support Canadian nationalism or patrotism.

The one word that is missing is the word national and when included in your phrase would read "common national identities".

Canada is multicultural like the U.S. and we all can relate to stories regarding our ancestry but the important factor is not to allow our previous ancestry to predominate our Canadian nationalism when applied to nationalism and patriotism and dedication to the very country we are living and thriving in with the most important factor being freedom and democracy.

No doubt we all owe the country of Canada big time and can express our appreciation with Canadian nationalism and loyality.

Why do we owe Canada anything? Are our taxes not enough? I don't see how waving a flag off the front of my garage betters anyone's life. Seems like a wasteful exercise to me.

I agree that you should leave your ancestory at the door, so to speak. But nationalism is just so foolish in of itself. Let's just leave that at the door too. It's foolish to believe that one place is better because of it's name.

I just don't see the point. I didn't choose to be born here, why must I be grateful to Canada? Maybe to God for allowing me to be born into such a prosperous area, but Canada did nothing out of it's way for me.

You sound confused about your own country.

It's evident you never had to FIGHT or SACRIFICE to get what you got and take everthing pretty much for granted.

What we owe our thanks and loyality to a large degree is to the Queen of Canada and England for literally giving us our BNA Act that formed the basis for the existence of our free and democratic country.

And we can thank our close friends and allies the U.S.A. for giving and allowing Canada to prosper being trading partners and providing a large element of security simply by the presence and close proximity of the U.S.

Patritotism also is to insure our quality of life is kept alive with an extreme desire to make certain our children are left with at least as much freedom and prosperity that we enjoy to-day.

So start waving your Canadian flag and be loyal and patriotic to a country most of the rest of the world would jump on to live here.

Taxes don't buy you freedom and democracy.

[mcqueen625]

How can patriotism be swayed by what a "government" does?

A government represents the country and in our case it's the federal government.

The government should lead in a way that creates in each and every one of us a common national identity that relates to the creation of this country and it's traditions and one that we should be proud of from the main distinguishing factor which is freedom and democracy which was given to us in the form of the BNA Act.

This country has never recognized this factor fully and preferred to dwell on factors that cause and PROMOTE disunity.

The failure of the federal government to correct this in the early stages resulted IMO a series of major constitutional errors that has resulted in a dysfunctional federal government as well as produced a severe lack of loyality and nationalism to the country of Canada, which will be hard if not impossible to reverse.

Canada IS NOT a democracy! Sure we have periodic elections during which we get to pick our new dictators for the next few years. Most are dishonest and they tell us exactly what we want to hear to get elected, and then basically ignore us until it is time to go to the polls again to seek another term in office.

Our federal government is dysfunctional in that being Canadian as someone I read once wrote means having no morals or values at all. What other country in the world would change the vary character of the country and it's institutions to appease certain ethnic or other special interest groups. One thing I refer to is allowing people to change the traditional dress of the RCMP to include the wearing of a turban instead of the traditional uniform. I'm sure that if we went to live in India and wanted to join their institutions they would not be quite as accommodating. THings like this have really taken something that says Canadian and made it into something un-Canadian.

The pandering to Quebec has made Canadian's feel as if our federal government exists only for Quebec. Many of us feel like the federal government believes that Canada starts at the Ontario/Manitoba border, and ends at the Quebec/New Brunswick border. Those of us who live outside that exclusive part of the country feel like we are really not part of Canada at all. Canada Day to me is just a day off work, and it represents nothing patriotic to me.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The rest of the nation are colonies with limited rights within confederation. But the crown did give us a way to deal with an all powerful federal government, it is just that we have to date not been smart enough to do anything about it. The Statute of Westminster, 1931 provides for in part the method of governance of some former British colonies. In it provinces are allowed to have their own constitutions. So through that means we are able to formulate a great deal of political infrastructure. Which begs the question, why have the provinces not acted to take advantage of this provision?

[geoffrey]

Taxes don't buy you freedom and democracy.

Sure they do, they fund the military.

I still don't see what increased loyalty and flag waving would really do to change mine or anyone else's standard of living.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Funding the military will actually detract from your standard of living.

[margrace]

You are misusing the words "common idenities" to justify in your mnd a way out as to not support Canadian nationalism or patrotism.

The one word that is missing is the word national and when included in your phrase would read "common national identities".

Canada is multicultural like the U.S. and we all can relate to stories regarding our ancestry but the important factor is not to allow our previous ancestry to predominate our Canadian nationalism when applied to nationalism and patriotism and dedication to the very country we are living and thriving in with the most important factor being freedom and democracy.

No doubt we all owe the country of Canada big time and can express our appreciation with Canadian nationalism and loyality.

Why do we owe Canada anything? Are our taxes not enough? I don't see how waving a flag off the front of my garage betters anyone's life. Seems like a wasteful exercise to me.

Boy talk about typical Rightest thinking. There is another site on here about spoiled young people, I think we have a prime example right here. So you pay taxes, isn't that too bad. Maybe you should look at what the American children are taught right from kindergarden up.

I guess you are not Christian and do not believe when the bible says you are your brothers keeper, or you do not believe in the moral teaching of the Bible. Canada provided you with a free education for one thing. Other countries do not.

I agree that you should leave your ancestory at the door, so to speak. But nationalism is just so foolish in of itself. Let's just leave that at the door too. It's foolish to believe that one place is better because of it's name.

I just don't see the point. I didn't choose to be born here, why must I be grateful to Canada? Maybe to God for allowing me to be born into such a prosperous area, but Canada did nothing out of it's way for me.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Zealots unite! Just kidding.............

Religion has no place in politics which has no place in religion.

[Leafless]

How can patriotism be swayed by what a "government" does?

A government represents the country and in our case it's the federal government.

The government should lead in a way that creates in each and every one of us a common national identity that relates to the creation of this country and it's traditions and one that we should be proud of from the main distinguishing factor which is freedom and democracy which was given to us in the form of the BNA Act.

This country has never recognized this factor fully and preferred to dwell on factors that cause and PROMOTE disunity.

The failure of the federal government to correct this in the early stages resulted IMO a series of major constitutional errors that has resulted in a dysfunctional federal government as well as produced a severe lack of loyality and nationalism to the country of Canada, which will be hard if not impossible to reverse.

Canada IS NOT a democracy! Sure we have periodic elections during which we get to pick our new dictators for the next few years. Most are dishonest and they tell us exactly what we want to hear to get elected, and then basically ignore us until it is time to go to the polls again to seek another term in office.

Our federal government is dysfunctional in that being Canadian as someone I read once wrote means having no morals or values at all. What other country in the world would change the vary character of the country and it's institutions to appease certain ethnic or other special interest groups. One thing I refer to is allowing people to change the traditional dress of the RCMP to include the wearing of a turban instead of the traditional uniform. I'm sure that if we went to live in India and wanted to join their institutions they would not be quite as accommodating. THings like this have really taken something that says Canadian and made it into something un-Canadian.

The pandering to Quebec has made Canadian's feel as if our federal government exists only for Quebec. Many of us feel like the federal government believes that Canada starts at the Ontario/Manitoba border, and ends at the Quebec/New Brunswick border. Those of us who live outside that exclusive part of the country feel like we are really not part of Canada at all. Canada Day to me is just a day off work, and it represents nothing patriotic to me.

There is No country that is virtually democratic in all areas concerning goverence.

To detirmine how democratic we really are is simply to compare ourselves with other countries.

But I agree with everthing you said in your post but this has nothing to do with the BNA ACT itself and our inheritence of this great country but unfortunately it does have a lot to do with corrupt politics.

But we only have OURSELVES to blame for tolerating this type of goverence.

[Wilber]

Taxes don't buy you freedom and democracy.

Sure they do, they fund the military.

I still don't see what increased loyalty and flag waving would really do to change mine or anyone else's standard of living.

If everyone thought like you, who would join the military?

[Charles Anthony]

Taxes don't buy you freedom and democracy.

Sure they do, they fund the military.

I still don't see what increased loyalty and flag waving would really do to change mine or anyone else's standard of living.

If everyone thought like you, who would join the military?

Probably nobody.

We would have to pay our military more than we currently do and people would enlist.

Simple.