Screw Europe, they're functionally dead

[paxamericana]

The proposed Core Five would include the United States, China, Russia, India, and Japan, focusing only on major economic and military powers.

I would also include Canada in the pegging list but alas they're not European. 

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2025/12/10/how-a-new-russia-china-us-network-could-work-00685342

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

The proposed Core Five would include the United States, China, Russia, India, and Japan, focusing only on major economic and military powers.

I would also include Canada in the pegging list but alas they're not European. 

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2025/12/10/how-a-new-russia-china-us-network-could-work-00685342

This daft idea is paywalled...

[John Stone]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This daft idea is paywalled...

"The brave play with fire and learn its secrets; the foolish play with fire and learn its price." / anon

Wonder what we are, brave or foolishly naive?

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union with a secret protocol establishing Soviet and German spheres of influence across Europe. The pact was signed in Moscow, 24 August 1939 by the Soviet and German  Foreign Ministers. Germany attacked the Soviet Union,  22 June, 41

 

 

[herbie]

Pax endorses Trump's policy that America should stick it's head farther up it's pwn ass.

Ouroboros diplomacy

Edited December 13, 2025 by herbie

[August1991]

3 hours ago, John Stone said:

===

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union with a secret protocol establishing Soviet and German spheres of influence across Europe. The pact was signed in Moscow, 24 August 1939 by the Soviet and German  Foreign Ministers. Germany attacked the Soviet Union,  22 June, 41

===

 

To me, this so called World War II was an extension of WW I.

Europeans frequently fight each other: the period of 1914-1945 was typical. Like the Napoleonic Wars.

====

We Canadians get along. 

[paxamericana]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

We Canadians get along. 

Stop saying that. You’re a confederation of hatred.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, August1991 said:

To me, this so called World War II was an extension of WW I.

Europeans frequently fight each other: the period of 1914-1945 was typical. Like the Napoleonic Wars.

====

We Canadians get along. 

Indeed we do. 

Unlike the US, we weren't born in division... We were born in deferent unity.

[SpankyMcFarland]

It’s a five families type of idea, a mafia to run the world. What else would you expect? However, Trump looks like he is going to have his hands full at home for a while. 

Edited December 13, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[John Stone]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

To me, this so called World War II was an extension of WW I.

Europeans frequently fight each other: the period of 1914-1945 was typical. Like the Napoleonic Wars.

====

We Canadians get along. 

I'd agree that the punitive economic conditions placed on Germany post WWI contributed to the collapse of the Weimar republic and the fascists assuming power in 1933

That said, the causes that led up to the two World wars were completely different. Without getting completely into the weeds, WWI was a result of European, geo-realignment and  subsequent treaties  - as everyone knows the  pretext was the assassination of archduke Franz  Ferdinand, presumptive heir of Austria-Hungary by a Bosnian Serb.   

The immediate cause of WWII was the Nazi invasion  of Poland in 1939.  That said there were many other factors leading up to it (WWII). The Legacy of WWI, failure of the League of Nations, Election of the fascists, 1933, expansionism and militarism to name a few.

There were several instances when the Nazi could have been deterred but the opportunities were not taken advantage of. The memory of WWI was too fresh and Europe dithered. Arguably a parallel could be drawn with Ukraine, today. 

Definitely agree that World history, the conflicts that shaped the World generally,  occurred in Europe  or  their beginnings were in Europe.  

 

[John Stone]

11 hours ago, John Stone said:

"The brave play with fire and learn its secrets; the foolish play with fire and learn its price." / anon

Wonder what we are, brave or foolishly naive?

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union with a secret protocol establishing Soviet and German spheres of influence across Europe. The pact was signed in Moscow, 24 August 1939 by the Soviet and German  Foreign Ministers. Germany attacked the Soviet Union,  22 June, 41

 

 

There is no honor amongst thieves? 

Any 'pact' signed with Russia, China, NK(OMG)?

 

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, John Stone said:

the conflicts that shaped the World generally,  occurred in Europe  or  their beginnings were in Europe.  

See problem with the European is that they all thought history stopped and that everyone would never needed to fight again. The collective Naïveté is what lead to Ukraine. And now the Russia war machine is coming for them. And they have the galls of putting up trade barriers to American businesses?? America isn’t the bad guy but we’re sure not obliged to help either.

Edited December 13, 2025 by paxamericana

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

 America isn’t the bad guy but we’re sure not obliged to help either.

You set up NATO, back when your leaders were wise and actually led the world ?

[paxamericana]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You set up NATO, back when your leaders were wise and actually led the world ?

Look man, Europe and much of the western world is in demographic decline which means there’s not an economic reason to get involved. Europe is not war torn, yet again anyway , and expecting America to pay for holding up the ceiling isn’t going to fly with the American people any longer. Why should we care more about European lives than their own people???? So don’t be stuck in the past. What worked then won’t work now @Michael Hardner!

But hey feel free to bail out the European again Canada. See how much blood and treasure you’ve wiling to expense.

Edited December 13, 2025 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

18 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

See problem with the European is that they all though history stopped and that everyone would never needed to fight again. The collective Naïveté is what lead to Ukraine. And now the Russia war machine is coming for them. And they have the galls of putting up trade barriers to American businesses?? America isn’t the bad guy but we’re sure not obliged to help either.

Ukraine was at one time, not that long ago,  the World's 3rd largest nuclear power with a war load of over 4000. Thirty years ago, on 5 December 1994, at a ceremony in Budapest, Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia. When ur dealing with   China / Russia ....... emphasis on Russia, ur dealing with the devil himself. 

Ukraine's naïveté was giving them up .......... how different things would be now  if they hadn't. Their trust in political hacks was definitely a mistake . 

[paxamericana]

3 minutes ago, John Stone said:

Ukraine was at one time, not that long ago,  the World's 3rd largest nuclear power with a war load of over 4000. Thirty years ago, on 5 December 1994, at a ceremony in Budapest, Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia. When ur dealing with   China / Russia ....... emphasis on Russia, ur dealing with the devil himself. 

Ukraine's naïveté was giving them up .......... how different things would be now  if they hadn't. Their trust in political hacks was definitely a mistake . 

My fear isn’t that there are Nukes, my fear is that the Nukes are no longer an effective deterrent. With the advent of drone warfare immune to radiation, it’s not entirely impossible to have a war fought entirely by drones with nukes. 
 

Either way though, the Russian are on the war path and everyone just needs to accept that. Before we can have some productive conversation about how America will or will not get involved. Hint here, pay us to protect you. Give America a reason to stay. Orange man was right.

Edited December 13, 2025 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

My fear isn’t that there are Nukes, my fear is that the Nukes are no longer an effective deterrent. With the advent of drone warfare immune to radiation, it’s not entirely impossible to have a war fought entirely by drones with nukes. 

Reprisal is a deterrent ........in the Cold War labelled, "MAD"

The strategy behind NATO is  'peace thru strength'. 

It's worked for 70 years. 

In any event the smart money is the human race will annihilate itself thru the deployment of nucs in geo stationary orbit and controlled(?) with A.I. 

Drones are a battlefield weapon - granted a tac nuc would do some damage to a staging area and likely lead to the crowd pleasers very quickly - 25+Mega Tons - the strategic weapons. 

[paxamericana]

1 minute ago, John Stone said:

Reprisal is a deterrent

Not against a madman with nothing to lose. That’s Russia. They see this as the last Great War of the Russian people and in that they are absolutely correct. They’re going into that good night regardless of what happens in Europe. Whether that timeline gets pushed forward or not is the only factor the Russian feel they can control. Russia national collapse can happen anytime between now and 2070 with the later assuming they win in Europe.

[John Stone]

46 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Not against a madman with nothing to lose. That’s Russia. They see this as the last Great War of the Russian people and in that they are absolutely correct. They’re going into that good night regardless of what happens in Europe. Whether that timeline gets pushed forward or not is the only factor the Russian feel they can control. Russia national collapse can happen anytime between now and 2070 with the later assuming they win in Europe.

Indeed. Suppose the big question is whether Putin is a madman.

I believe Putin, like Trump,  is after a legacy - geo conquest and/or,  brick and mortar

 

[paxamericana]

19 minutes ago, John Stone said:

Indeed. Suppose the big question is whether Putin is a madman.

Meanwhile, dumb Canadians are raging about how mean Trump is to the world and a threat to democracy this that and the other thing … bunch of retards.

Edited December 13, 2025 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

22 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Meanwhile, dumb Canadians are raging about how mean Trump is to the world and a threat to democracy this that and the other thing … bunch of retards.

Trump objective is a new global  order - a hierarchy? 

Countries that he deems unworthy or lesser are the bottom feeders

China, US and Russia are the new order. 

To be successful, a wedge needs to be drawn between the U.S. and  Europe ...... beginning with disbanding NATO.

Close ties then can be groomed with the other two?

It's in the works. 

Strange bedfellows indeed - the coming together of 3 ideologies(?); Communism, Fascist and Putinism. 

Edited December 13, 2025 by John Stone

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, John Stone said:

Trump objective is a new global  order - a hierarchy? 

Not if the deep state has anything to say about it. But that’s the problem, what is America’s strategic interest in holding up the ceiling. I can’t imagine past some nebulous cloud of shared democratic value, as if that is supposed to have some intrinsic meaning to the laymen.

China and Russia are both going away. America will also outlast the Indian . So why not just sit back and let it all peter out. Japan has already stopped functioning as an economic power. 
 

America’s gift and curse that it’s always an ocean away from other people’s problem.

Edited December 13, 2025 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

The U.S. military maintains hundreds of installations, both inside the United States and overseas 

The Five Eyes is made up of Britain, the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand which originally evolved from a secret World War Two alliance between British and U.S. cypher and code breaking teams.

The U.S. is the global leader, by far, in the production of Military Arms - accountable for around 50 percent.

The United States, for now, is the largest Global economy. 

 

................. all of these facts  are interconnected in  making (having made) the U.S. a superpower. Individually or collectively they lever other Nations in politics, investment, and defense (spending) and strategy. 

Very few believe NATO is simply desirable in terms of defense - that would be silly.  

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 12/13/2025 at 11:01 AM, paxamericana said:

See problem with the European is that they all thought history stopped and that everyone would never needed to fight again. The collective Naïveté is what lead to Ukraine. And now the Russia war machine is coming for them. And they have the galls of putting up trade barriers to American businesses?? America isn’t the bad guy but we’re sure not obliged to help either.

The Russian war machine must be a bugger to start. They really needed that contraption up and running four years ago.

[August1991]

On 12/13/2025 at 11:42 AM, John Stone said:

Trump objective is a new global  order - a hierarchy? 

...

Disagree.

Trump wants to make America great again.

[John Stone]

4 hours ago, August1991 said:

Disagree.

Trump wants to make America great again.

Cannot both be true?