The Trump Administration is Emulating Russia.

[John Stone]

10 minutes ago, User said:

So what? The popular vote is irrelevant to electing the President. It doesn’t matter if someone loses that, and still becomes president because that isn’t how they are elected. 
 

You are not offering any argument as to why this isn’t Democratic. 
 

This is a chess match, and you are arguing chess isn’t a real game because the person who won the chess match didn’t also win the checkers game. 

Amazing how much you sound like CdnFox - that you foxy girl? 

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, User said:

So what? The popular vote is irrelevant to electing the President. It doesn’t matter if someone loses that, and still becomes president because that isn’t how they are elected. 
 

You are not offering any argument as to why this isn’t Democratic. 
 

This is a chess match, and you are arguing chess isn’t a real game because the person who won the chess match didn’t also win the checkers game. 

It's also worth noting that you can't take any one element of the system in exclusion of the others. 

The presidential vote is not 'direct' democracy which would be one person one vote and highest tally wins, that's true.  But it is in fact democratic.  BUT - it's ALSO just one part of the people's representation. Then you ALSO have a representative for the house, which is democratically elected in your local district and you have MUCH more direct input into with no voices from outside your district.  And then you've got the senate which is also elected by the specific state. 

So you've got THREE representatives federally that protect the interest of the individual, and each are elected using slightly different models and blend different levels of democracy. 

So the over all effect is that people actually do have a great deal of overall democratic representation and a great deal of say in their governance even if ONE element doesn't incorporate direct democracy precisely. 

You have to look at the whole system, not just one element like the president's office. 

Edited December 10, 2025 by CdnFox

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, John Stone said:

Amazing how much you sound like CdnFox - that you foxy girl? 

LOL sure kid. 

So let me guess, you're someone who got punted off of here in the past, or who ran off in shame, and now you're back under another name and reliving your butthurt from the past?  

So many people have quit crying their eyes out after scrapping with me in the past, wouldn't even want to guess which one  you are  

At the end of the day the truth sounds the same no matter who says it.  @User is correct in his claims, as am I, the truth is bound to sound a little similar.  So lets see if you can address the points or if you're just going to have an  emotional break down and cry.

[User]

16 minutes ago, John Stone said:

Amazing how much you sound like CdnFox - that you foxy girl? 

Amazing how you make an assertion and can’t seem to back it up with any kind of argument 

[Radiorum]

2 hours ago, User said:

They are targeting VIOLENCE AND THREATS OF VIOLENCE

I invite you to read the Unchecked Authority: EXAMINING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION’S EXTRAJUDICIAL IMMIGRATION DETENTIONS OF U.S. CITIZENS - released yesterday

"This report contains new details of the Administration’s actions based on interviews conducted by the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (“PSI” or “the Subcommittee”) of nearly two dozen American citizens detained by federal immigration agents between June and November 2025."

And - 

The Subcommittee’s findings add to a growing body of evidence that the Trump Administration is seeking to build a nationwide paramilitary force with vast resources that lawlessly detains citizens based on its own whims—an effort which has a number of unfortunate and obvious historical parallels.

Included in the report are the experiences of children - such as:

Anabel Romero’s 14-year-old daughter was zip-tied over her mother’s objection, while her six and eight-year-old children were held at gunpoint. The 14-year-old was also pulled “out of my lifted truck, causing her to land on the grass. She had bruises all over her ribs;”

Andreina Mejia’s 15-year-old special needs son was removed at gunpoint from her car while in front of a school due to a case of obviously mistaken identify that, when discovered, led to no apology but instead an official joking “at least you’ll have an exciting story to tell when you go back to school;”

M., a 6-year-old autistic U.S. citizen who was separated from her parents by ICE agents in an apparent attempt to lure her parents to leave private property so they could be apprehended. M. was violently ill upon being returned to her family and had to be treated in the emergency room, miss school for a week, and has continued to struggle with nightmares.

 

There are new stories everyday of people being unlawfully harassed and detained. Citizens now fear their government, and I believe that is part of Trump's purpose.

 

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I invite you to read the Unchecked Authority: EXAMINING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION’S EXTRAJUDICIAL IMMIGRATION DETENTIONS OF U.S. CITIZENS - released yesterday

"This report contains new details of the Administration’s actions based on interviews conducted by the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (“PSI” or “the Subcommittee”) of nearly two dozen American citizens detained by federal immigration agents between June and November 2025."

And - 

The Subcommittee’s findings add to a growing body of evidence that the Trump Administration is seeking to build a nationwide paramilitary force with vast resources that lawlessly detains citizens based on its own whims—an effort which has a number of unfortunate and obvious historical parallels.

Included in the report are the experiences of children - such as:

Anabel Romero’s 14-year-old daughter was zip-tied over her mother’s objection, while her six and eight-year-old children were held at gunpoint. The 14-year-old was also pulled “out of my lifted truck, causing her to land on the grass. She had bruises all over her ribs;”

Andreina Mejia’s 15-year-old special needs son was removed at gunpoint from her car while in front of a school due to a case of obviously mistaken identify that, when discovered, led to no apology but instead an official joking “at least you’ll have an exciting story to tell when you go back to school;”

M., a 6-year-old autistic U.S. citizen who was separated from her parents by ICE agents in an apparent attempt to lure her parents to leave private property so they could be apprehended. M. was violently ill upon being returned to her family and had to be treated in the emergency room, miss school for a week, and has continued to struggle with nightmares.

 

There are new stories everyday of people being unlawfully harassed and detained. Citizens now fear their government, and I believe that is part of Trump's purpose.

 

If the government is acting outside the law then these people have recourse. They can file lawsuits and make lots of money.

But there have only been a few lawsuits in the findings aren't terribly damning.

With all of these examples if credible you would think that there would be hundreds of lawsuits if not thousands demanding reparations against illegal Behavior.

As it is I didn't take the time to read the report, you haven't actually really mentioned much from the report and I'm not prepared to read the whole thing to try and figure out what part you're talking about. But I do know that the vast majority of the writers of this report come from California politics and it leads me to believe there is a strong possibility of bias in the interpretation of the law and trump's actions.

If there's a specific incident that you're referring to than by all means put it forward.

The only one you seem to have mentioned was the fact that Two children and an adolescent were restrained. Frankly I don't see a big problem with that, especially the adolescent. Restraining the children given the circumstances may very well have been for their own security and safety. But if there was wrong doing there it was wrong doing on the part of the police conducting the raid and police policy and behavior should be examined if in that case it's inappropriate. It doesn't speak to trump

[Radiorum]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If the government is acting outside the law then these people have recourse.

But, the Administration has encouraged them to act outside of the law. They've been told they will be given federal immunity. According to Stephen Miller:

“To all ICE officers, you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties,” Miller said. “And anybody who lays a hand on you or tries to stop you or tries to obstruct you is committing a felony.”

They've been told they cannot be arrested when performing their "duties." According to Todd Blanche:

“The Department of Justice views any arrests of federal agents and officers in the performance of their official duties as both illegal and futile,” Blanche wrote.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/31/fact-check-do-ice-officers-really-have-federal-immunity-in-the-us

 

They are spurred on by the continual barrage of hatred the Trump administration levels at those they pursue.

On Thursday evening, Trump condemned immigrants in a broad and vicious invective, painting them as “illegal and disruptive populations” and attacking “those that hate, steal, murder and destroy everything that America stands for”. He vowed to block all migration from “third world countries” to allow the “US system to fully recover”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/29/trumps-hate-filled-rant-ignores-facts-on-immigrant-and-economic-benefits

This is a situation ripe for abuse.

 

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

it leads me to believe there is a strong possibility of bias in the interpretation of the law and trump's actions.

They interviewed people who had actually been detained. It really happened, separate from whatever spin the Democrats put on it.

 

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If there's a specific incident that you're referring to than by all means put it forward.

There are many, if you're paying attention.

And in fact, ICE is conducting themselves more as kidnappers than law enforcement.

Here's one story you might be interested in reading:

Fifteen U.S. Citizens Detained In Over 96 ‘Kavanaugh Stops,’ As Feds Disregard Legal Documentation

Justice Kavanaugh laid out the framework for how racial profiling is permissible by federal agents leading to what has now been coined as the “Kavanaugh Stop,” by professor Anil Kalhan. 

25 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Frankly I don't see a big problem with that

They have been needlessly traumatized

 

25 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Restraining the children given the circumstances may very well have been for their own security and safety.

How did zip-tying them accomplish this?

25 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It doesn't speak to trump

The entire operation is his.

[Radiorum]

3 hours ago, User said:

They are targeting VIOLENCE AND THREATS OF VIOLENCE

 a new study from the Cato Institute found that 73% of people detained by ICE have no convictions.

It also found that nearly half had no criminal conviction nor even any pending criminal charges and that only 5% had a violent criminal conviction

[Legato]

2 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

But, the Administration has encouraged them to act outside of the law. They've been told they will be given federal immunity. According to Stephen Miller:

“To all ICE officers, you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties,” Miller said. “And anybody who lays a hand on you or tries to stop you or tries to obstruct you is committing a felony.”

They've been told they cannot be arrested when performing their "duties." According to Todd Blanche:

“The Department of Justice views any arrests of federal agents and officers in the performance of their official duties as both illegal and futile,” Blanche wrote.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/31/fact-check-do-ice-officers-really-have-federal-immunity-in-the-us

 

They are spurred on by the continual barrage of hatred the Trump administration levels at those they pursue.

On Thursday evening, Trump condemned immigrants in a broad and vicious invective, painting them as “illegal and disruptive populations” and attacking “those that hate, steal, murder and destroy everything that America stands for”. He vowed to block all migration from “third world countries” to allow the “US system to fully recover”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/29/trumps-hate-filled-rant-ignores-facts-on-immigrant-and-economic-benefits

This is a situation ripe for abuse.

 

They interviewed people who had actually been detained. It really happened, separate from whatever spin the Democrats put on it.

 

There are many, if you're paying attention.

And in fact, ICE is conducting themselves more as kidnappers than law enforcement.

Here's one story you might be interested in reading:

Fifteen U.S. Citizens Detained In Over 96 ‘Kavanaugh Stops,’ As Feds Disregard Legal Documentation

Justice Kavanaugh laid out the framework for how racial profiling is permissible by federal agents leading to what has now been coined as the “Kavanaugh Stop,” by professor Anil Kalhan. 

They have been needlessly traumatized

 

How did zip-tying them accomplish this?

The entire operation is his.

I skimmed through most of that report. None of the claims have been substantiated, so at the moment it's all just hearsay.

We should wait until the truth be told

[User]

1 minute ago, Radiorum said:

 a new study from the Cato Institute found that 73% of people detained by ICE have no convictions.

It also found that nearly half had no criminal conviction nor even any pending criminal charges and that only 5% had a violent criminal conviction

OK… and?

What does having no convictions have to do with anything we were discussing or you were claiming?

They are still here illegally. ICE job is to enforce federal immigration law. It doesn’t matter if you are also convicted of more crimes or not. 

[Legato]

Just now, Radiorum said:

 a new study from the Cato Institute found that 73% of people detained by ICE have no convictions.

It also found that nearly half had no criminal conviction nor even any pending criminal charges and that only 5% had a violent criminal conviction

Illegal immigrant means they are committing a crime.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

 a new study from the Cato Institute found that 73% of people detained by ICE have no convictions.

It also found that nearly half had no criminal conviction nor even any pending criminal charges and that only 5% had a violent criminal conviction

Are you saying 27 percent DO? 

Holy SHIT that's a high percent! 

[Radiorum]

1 minute ago, User said:

OK… and?

What does having no convictions have to do with anything we were discussing or you were claiming?

They are still here illegally. ICE job is to enforce federal immigration law. It doesn’t matter if you are also convicted of more crimes or not. 

You said they were targeting violence. I showed you statistics proving that is not true.

[User]

46 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

There are new stories everyday of people being unlawfully harassed and detained. Citizens now fear their government, and I believe that is part of Trump's purpose.

 

You are conflating 2 different discussions. The one where you claimed Trump was attacking the first amendment because they are targeting ANTIFA violence and later discussions about Illegal Immigration. 
 

[Radiorum]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Are you saying 27 percent DO? 

They count things like traffic violations and possession of a joint.

[Radiorum]

3 minutes ago, Legato said:

Illegal immigrant means they are committing a crime.

Illegal immigrants do deserve to be deported. full stop. No-one has ever disagreed with that.

But it does not follow that the US government can destroy the rule of law.

[Radiorum]

3 minutes ago, User said:

The one where you claimed Trump was attacking the first amendment because they are targeting ANTIFA violence and later discussions about Illegal Immigration. 

I don't know what you're talking about. I never made any comment on ANTIFA

Trump has targeted the First Amendment in his crackdowns on the freedom of protest, lawyers and the press

[Legato]

2 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Illegal immigrants do deserve to be deported. full stop. No-one has ever disagreed with that.

But it does not follow that the US government can destroy the rule of law.

Which rules of law are being destroyed?

Just now, Radiorum said:

I don't know what you're talking about. I never made any comment on ANTIFA

Trump has targeted the First Amendment in his crackdowns on the freedom of protest, lawyers and the press

Examples.........of

[Radiorum]

7 minutes ago, Legato said:

Which rules of law are being destroyed?

Well, the detaining of US citizens without due process is one way - with warrantless, unlawful arrests, and detention based on constitutional and human-rights violations, but in general, the Trump Administration is harming the rule of law in these broad categories:

• Open hostility and public attacks on judges
• Refusing or delaying compliance with court orders
• Eroding long-standing institutional norms
• Using the DOJ to target political opponents and shield allies
• Retaliation against law firms and lawyers based on political affiliation
• Selective enforcement and shifting priorities
• Attempts to bypass Congress’s power, especially over spending
• Frequent use of broad, aggressive executive orders with questionable legality
• Treating the executive as above legal constraints
• Eroding civil rights protections via policy and enforcement changes
• Using clemency and pardons in ways that weaken accountability
• Erosion of public trust in institutions
• Danger of normalization of “rule-by-politics” instead of “rule-by-law”
• Discouraging qualified people from serving in the judiciary or legal profession

 

21 minutes ago, Legato said:

Examples.........of

He's been using his power to silence voices he does not want to be heard, and using that power to amplify loyal voices who spread his message. He calls the press "the enemy of the people" for god's sake

 

[User]

53 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

M., a 6-year-old autistic U.S. citizen who was separated from her parents by ICE agents in an apparent attempt to lure her parents to leave private property so they could be apprehended. M. was violently ill upon being returned to her family and had to be treated in the emergency room, miss school for a week, and has continued to struggle with nightmares.

Every example I have seen like these are lies or distortions meant to deceive. There was no attempt to use a child to lure anyone like this. These are unfounded BS assertions. 
 

ICE officers had rescued the child after parents abandoned trying to flee. 
 

Absolutely not. ICE agents NEVER used a 5-year-old girl as ‘bait’—what a disgusting smear," she said in a post on X. "The criminal illegal alientarget — with previous arrests for domestic abuse and strangulation, among other charges — ABANDONED his own child in a car."

She added that Mejia ignored emergency lights, fled to his home, and left his daughter behind.

"He fled from the car, gave officers the double middle finger, and darted inside his house," McLaughlin said. "He abandoned his 5-year-old daughter in the car. Officers helped rescue the child and called local police to report the abandonment.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dhs-rejects-nbc-report-claiming-ice-used-5-year-old-autistic-girl-bait-arrest-father

 

[Radiorum]

1 minute ago, User said:

Absolutely not. ICE agents NEVER used a 5-year-old girl as ‘bait’—what a disgusting smear," she said in a post on X. "The criminal illegal alientarget — with previous arrests for domestic abuse and strangulation, among other charges — ABANDONED his own child in a car."

She added that Mejia ignored emergency lights, fled to his home, and left his daughter behind.

"He fled from the car, gave officers the double middle finger, and darted inside his house," McLaughlin said. "He abandoned his 5-year-old daughter in the car. Officers helped rescue the child and called local police to report the abandonment.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dhs-rejects-nbc-report-claiming-ice-used-5-year-old-autistic-girl-bait-arrest-father

 

The DHS lies. 

[CdnFox]

46 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

But, the Administration has encouraged them to act outside of the law. They've been told they will be given federal immunity. According to Stephen Miller:

 

 

They are spurred on by the continual barrage of hatred the Trump administration levels at those they pursue.

 

This is a situation ripe for abuse.

 

They interviewed people who had actually been detained. It really happened, separate from whatever spin the Democrats put on it.

 

There are many, if you're paying attention.

And in fact, ICE is conducting themselves more as kidnappers than law enforcement.

 

Justice Kavanaugh laid out the framework for how racial profiling is permissible by federal agents leading to what has now been coined as the “Kavanaugh Stop,” by professor Anil Kalhan. 

They have been needlessly traumatized

 

How did zip-tying them accomplish this?

The entire operation is his.

Against administration is not encouraging them to act illegally nor have any charges of illegal activity been brought against them that I'm aware of. If an ice officer behaves illegally then they can be charged.

The problem is you quote things out of context. Yes, arresting an ice officer or interfering with him while he's conducting his duties would indeed be illegal. But that doesn't mean you can't bring charges against them after

And not only does miller not have the ability or authority to prevent any prosecutions against, he has no way of actually stopping charges from being brought against anyone. Yet here we are

And you don't know what they're spurred on by, you're just making that up because that's what you want to be true.

The situation might be right for abuse but if it's abused then there is a process. And if there was rampant abuse we would be seeing that process used constantly and we are not. It would appear that they are acting for the most part within the law

Also for inexplicable reasons you point out that the supreme court justice has determined that some of what they're doing is specifically legal. Which shoots your argument in the foot

And you, a non-expert who has an obvious hatred for ice and for trump are simply not qualified to determine what does or does not represent needless traumatization.

Restricting people's movements keeps them safe during times when they may be tempted to act dangerously. What if a child out of fear were to bolt and run out into the street? IF they got hit and killed you'd be screaming demanding to know why Ice "Let a child be killed".   What if the 14-year-old decided they were going to "Save their siblings" And break free and grab a knife? Now that you either have to shoot her or hope they can disarm her somehow without injury.

There's no doubt that being taken into custody is going to be traumatic for them, that's unavoidable. But you can control their actions so that they don't do something sudden and inappropriate and get killed.

Literally everything you're saying here is an appeal to emotion and that is a logical fallacy that simply can't be defended. You say they are breaking the law but can't provide any evidence and nobody is actually using the process that they would if they were breaking the law. You say that the officers are being manipulated but that's just your feeling there's no evidence of that. You say things are right for abuse and in your opinion this shouldn't happen or that shouldn't happen but none of that is factual or demonstrates that they're stepping outside the law

.

So let's cut to the chase. What you're saying is you don't like what's happening. That's a perfectly valid position and you can take that position and argue as to why you don't think it should be that way. But you cannot take the fact that you dislike it and somehow pretend that that's evidence that what trump is doing is evil or wrong inherently or illegal in any way.

Trump's actions are illegal when a judge says so. The agents actions are illegal when a judge says so. Give a specific agent steps outside the law they should be charged and prosecuted just like any police officer.

But you haven't really made that case, all you've done is suggest that in your opinion what's happening is undesirable. Fair enough but that's not the same as trump is committing a crime

[User]

39 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I don't know what you're talking about. I never made any comment on ANTIFA

Trump has targeted the First Amendment in his crackdowns on the freedom of protest, lawyers and the press

It’s the first post in this thread.. YOU CREATED.

 

5 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

The DHS lies. 

What evidence do you have ICE did this other than the parents claiming it? 

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Well, the detaining of US citizens without due process is one way - with warrantless, unlawful arrests, and detention based on constitutional and human-rights violations,

 

That has all been tested and proven to be false according to the courts. In the one case of a handful of people even then it said that due process was offered but fell short of what the law requires and instructed them to do better next time. It wasn't that they were denied due process. That happens all the time.

but in general, the Trump Administration is harming the rule of law in these broad categories:

• Quote

   

  • Open hostility and public attacks on judges
  • Refusing or delaying compliance with court orders
  • Eroding long-standing institutional norms
  • Using the DOJ to target political opponents and shield allies
  • Retaliation against law firms and lawyers based on political affiliation
  • Selective enforcement and shifting priorities
  • Attempts to bypass Congress’s power, especially over spending
  • Frequent use of broad, aggressive executive orders with questionable legality
  • Treating the executive as above legal constraints
  • Eroding civil rights protections via policy and enforcement changes
  • Using clemency and pardons in ways that weaken accountability
  • Erosion of public trust in institutions
  • Danger of normalization of “rule-by-politics” instead of “rule-by-law”
  • Discouraging qualified people from serving in the judiciary or legal profession

   

First off again most of those are your opinion. And some of them are just a joke, like eroding long-standing institutional norms. That's about as much bullshit as you can possibly muster

And the rest of it is just your opinion. It has no real basis in fact it's not objective it's subjective. Not to mention most of it is stuff that every government has done including Biden and Obama

There is not a single thing in there that I can't point to many other governments do it in the united states history in fact most of them I could point to the last two administrations and show them all as being fairly common. So again this is your opinion and emotion it's not based in fact. If those things were an erosion of democracy or america then America would already be well eroded long before trump came along

 

Quote

He's been using his power to silence voices he does not want to be heard, and using that power to amplify loyal voices who spread his message. He calls the press "the enemy of the people" for god's sake

Oh you mean like he's been telling people they're not allowed to talk about Hunter Biden's notebook on pain of legal recourse, or instructing social media to deliberately repress conservative voices? Oh no wait, that wasn't him who was that again......?

 

[gatomontes99]

5 hours ago, John Stone said:

 

In the controversial 2000 election,   finally decided by SCOTUS,  George W. Bush was elected president, despite having lost the popular vote to Democrat Al Gore by 543,816 votes.2

 In the 2016 election, Republican Donald Trump lost the popular vote to Democrat Hillary Clinton by nearly 3 million votes but was elected president by winning 304 electoral votes compared to Clinton’s 227

 

To understand how this could happen, u need to understand the electoral college and more importantly, how the weight of electoral vote is determined - basically it's winner take all. 

No, the present system is not democratic ......... and believe me, the winning Congress does not want to change it . 

 

I'd just add that SCOTUS is going to be playing a huge role in the next General - if not the midterm. 

You do understand that the United States started as individual countries? With that in mind, the electoral college is like these individual countries casting their weighted voted based on the vote of their population. 

It is kind of brilliant. The populous states get a bigger vote, but the less populous states can over ride them. That means the rural voters can have a say and so can the urban voters. This is what we mean by majority rules, minority rights. The EC balances popular vote with minority vote so that both groups have a turn in power. It moderates our policies. It is literally the best system devised to date. There is no tyranny of the majority here.