Why socialized health care is a failed public service in Canada.

[I am Groot]

On 10/31/2025 at 4:23 PM, herbie said:

Give it up with your Americanized vocabulary. It is Public Health care, if every country in the world uses it except the USA then let them continue to fool their citizens by portraying it as a socialist horror.

We are not like other public healthcare systems. Only Cuba bans almost all private medicine. We need to look at the mixed systems in Europe that are working the best, and shift to those models. I've been saying this for many years, and I think by now the majority of Canadians agree.

Just the fact that the government decides how many doctors we have has been a disaster. The only parts of the medical system that function well are the ones they don't control. I can find physiotherapists anywhere and get same-day appointments in some cases. I can do the same for optometrists. Dentists are taking patients everywhere. But try to get a family doctor, and you're on a long wait list. Try to get an appointment for a surgical consult and you could die waiting. We have half the doctors, half the hospital beds, and half the diagnostic machines most European countries have. 

Why?

[I am Groot]

On 10/31/2025 at 8:18 PM, Army Guy said:

Considered that most of the country was built upon the free market, why would handing overt our health care system to the free market be a bad thing, it is not that the federal/ provincial  government has long a history of running things smoothly and efficiently, LOL....I think the majority on this board would agree the feds / provincial governments could not organize a gang bang at a .....house...most of our federal/ provincial departments are fully engulfed in flames, this year alone 6 people have died in NB waiting rooms...waiting for to be seen by a doctor, with patients in beds  lined up in the hallways, if that is your idea of good health care your wrong....  It is not some fixes, it is major fixes...

I'm all for having the private sector involved. In some European countries, it's almost all private sector, but operating under strict government oversight. For example, you buy insurance from the private sector. But the government sets the rates and what has to be covered. And in many cases, the insurance companies can't make a profit on that. They can, however, sell you extra things not covered. Hospitals/doctors are also limited in what they can charge.

The American system is just chaotic. Massive paperwork because there are so many different insurance plans, and out-of-control costs that make theirs by far the most expensive system in the world. Which wouldn't be bad if it were the overall best. But it's not. Their results are never anywhere near the top of measured outcomes for Western countries. They're often near the bottom.

[I am Groot]

On 11/1/2025 at 3:36 PM, eyeball said:

Depends on what you're waiting for I guess, if it's your last dying breath...

Countries ranked by life expectancy (2025)Countries ranked by life expectancy (2025)

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

We're 16 on the list...

Life expectancy is due to many factors, and can't be used as a substitute for measuring the efficiency or effectiveness of the healthcare system. For example, and I can post it if anyone disagrees, the OECD is constantly measuring healthcare among its members and when it comes to wait lists, Canada is dead last.

On 11/1/2025 at 5:00 PM, eyeball said:

Not to mention decades... they'd have to amend our constitution. Hardly worth thinking about.

There are ways to persuade the provinces to agree to things like one central purchasing body for drugs and one central insurance scheme. Like, refuse to pay otherwise.

[I am Groot]

I always go back to what healthcare should look like. And because I'm old, I've seen it here. I went to a hospital after banging my chin. It was about 2AM. I walked in and place was very quiet. I was seen by a doctor, went to X-ray, had stitches, and was out the door in half an hour. That was about forty years ago.

Same hospital, twenty years later. Same time. Walked in with a pulled back, incredibly painful. The waiting room this time was jammed. Was told it would be at least eight hours before I could see anyone. Take a seat. I walked out, went home, and waited in bed. Went to a clinic next morning and was seen quickly.

Nowadays you wait even in clinics, if you can find one taking walk-ins.

[Moonlight Graham]

Our governments don't know how to run anything.

Edited November 6, 2025 by Moonlight Graham

[Barquentine]

On 10/31/2025 at 9:50 PM, blackbird said:

Millions of Canadians would strongly disagree with you.  Google and see all the serious problems with the health care system.

And tens of millions of Americans feel the same way about private health care. Compare the costs per person. Imagine needing a heart bypass or cancer treatment in the US vs canada.

Google and see all the serious problems with the health care system in other countries.

The scope and costs of health care has grown everywhere, not just in Canada.

[Barquentine]

On 11/3/2025 at 10:39 AM, I am Groot said:

Walked in with a pulled back, incredibly painful

A sore back? What did you expect? I know from experience that's a waste of ER time, but go in with a real urgent problem you'll get immediate care.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Barquentine said:

And tens of millions of Americans feel the same way about private health care. Compare the costs per person. Imagine needing a heart bypass or cancer treatment in the US vs canada.

Google and see all the serious problems with the health care system in other countries.

The scope and costs of health care has grown everywhere, not just in Canada.

Why would you even consider defending our failed health care system???  That makes no sense. 

You never mentioned the millions of Canadians that don't even have a family doctor.

You didn't mention the thousands of people that have died on long waiting lists for specialized care or cancer treatment, etc.

Then there are the Emergency Room closures in many places that are common.

There are many things wrong with our system.

 I never suggested comparing our system with the American system.  Funny how some people bring it up as some kind of excuse to keep our failing system as it is.  What a disaster that is.

Take a look at the system in Germany.  It is considered one of the best systems in the world.

quote

Germany has a universal multi-payer healthcare system that combines statutory and private health insurance, ensuring comprehensive coverage and access to high-quality medical services for all residents.

Overview of the System

Germany's healthcare system is one of the most advanced in the world, characterized by its dual insurance model consisting of statutory health insurance (Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung, GKV) and private health insurance (Private Krankenversicherung, PKV). This system is designed to provide universal coverage, ensuring that all citizens and residents have access to necessary medical services.

Key Features

Universal Coverage: Health insurance is mandatory for all residents in Germany. As of 2024, about 88% of the population is covered by statutory health insurance, while around 11% opt for private insurance. 

Funding Mechanism: The system is primarily funded through contributions from employees and employers, calculated as a percentage of income. For GKV, the average contribution is about 14.6% of gross income, with an additional individual premium. 

Public vs. Private Insurance:

Statutory Health Insurance (GKV): This is the most common form of insurance, covering a wide range of medical services, including preventive care, hospital treatment, and outpatient services. Family members without independent income can be covered at no extra cost. 

Private Health Insurance (PKV): Available for high-income earners, self-employed individuals, and civil servants, PKV offers broader coverage and shorter waiting times. Premiums are based on individual risk factors, such as age and health status. 

Access to Care: Patients can access a wide range of healthcare services without major restrictions. The system emphasizes solidarity, where healthier individuals help finance the care of those who are ill. 

Regulatory Framework: The Federal Joint Committee (G-BA) plays a crucial role in determining the benefits covered under GKV, ensuring that the system remains equitable and efficient. 

Historical Context

Germany pioneered social health insurance in 1883 under Chancellor Otto von Bismarck, establishing a framework that has evolved to provide comprehensive coverage for all residents. The system has gradually expanded to include all citizens, with mandatory health insurance coverage established in 2007. 

Challenges and Considerations

While the German healthcare system is highly regarded, it faces challenges such as rising costs, an aging population, and regional disparities in access to care. Continuous reforms are necessary to maintain its efficiency and effectiveness in meeting the needs of the population.

In summary, Germany's healthcare system is a well-structured model that combines public and private elements to ensure comprehensive coverage and high-quality care for all residents, making it a benchmark for healthcare systems worldwide.

The German Healthcare System Explained - Structure, Costs, and Benefits

The German healthcare system is self-governed and operated by a large number of institutions and organizations. This article describes who is involved, how health care is structured, and how it has changed over time.

The German Healthcare System Explained

Jan 14, 2025 · While it has its complexities, its focus on affordability, accessibility, and innovation makes it a benchmark for other nations. This article provides a clear and straightforward explanation of how the system …

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Healthcare_in_Germany

In Germany, people who become ill are given medical and therapeutic care – for example, in medical practices, hospitals and rehabilitation facilities. This care is provided 24/7 in the event of an emergency. Many different bodies …

https://www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de › fileadmi… · PDF file

Healthy in Germany. Everything you need to know about the …

It explains the structure of our healthcare ecosystem, introduces the key actors and explains how they work together. You will also learn where to obtain additional information, how to build on …

 unquote

how health care system in Germany works - Search

Another website to read:

The German Healthcare System Explained - Structure, Costs, and Benefits

Unless you study some of these website about other systems you won't know what Canada could do if it had the will.

 

Edited November 6, 2025 by blackbird

[SpankyMcFarland]

‘Socialized’ gives the OP an American feel which I think is unhelpful and only serves to divide people. Let’s not catastrophize here. Canada is not a hellscape yet. A close relative of mine has had superb cancer care in Canada, giving them many extra years of life. Yes, I think we need a bigger private sector but we should implement this in an incremental fashion to make sure that the market works for patients and they are protected from exploitation.

Edited November 7, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[I am Groot]

On 11/6/2025 at 7:24 AM, Barquentine said:

A sore back? What did you expect? I know from experience that's a waste of ER time, but go in with a real urgent problem you'll get immediate care.

Where else do you go to get drugs? Doctors and clinics don't operate after five. Neither do most pharmacies. You're not supposed to get sick except during the day on weekdays. Besides, bad backs were new to me back then. Now I'm prepared with lots of drugs and even prescriptions on hold at the pharmacy, and wouldn't think of going to ER.

Edited November 7, 2025 by I am Groot