No One Loves the Bill (Almost) Every Republican Voted For

[User]

5 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Biden’s largest deficit was $1.7T. Trump’s largest from his first term was over $3T. Biden only increased Debt to gdp ratio by 6 because economy was also growing , Trump increased it by 24% in just 1 term. 

Once again, your insistence on the lies is tiresome. Notice how you had to frame this dishonestly.

You are comparing the height of the Pandemic spending where both Democrats and Republicans were pushing the cash during COVID, ignoring the first year of the Biden administration. 

That 1.7T under Biden was way more than Trump non-Pandemic. 

Also, ignoring 2024, Biden's last year, at 1.8T. You also ignored Obama. 

Remember, your dishonest lie was that it was Republicans, not just Trump, while you ignore Obama and dishonestly frame Pandemic spending from BOTH parties as being Trump... again, your argument was Republicans. 

So, run away now. Run away like you and all the others on the left do when I point out your obvious lies. 

 

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

LMAO what the hell are you talking about?  You’re just spouting your made up nonsense without a shred of evidence again. he last time wTe went over this YOU hilariously lied and tried to claim Bush Jr ran a balanced budget when in fact he massively INCREASED the debt and never ran a single balanced budget  

 

Yeah that never happened. And the one lying here is you.

We went through example after example and the simple fact is you're wrong.

Not only that you tried desperately to claim that the covid years were an example of trump's overspending and that the recovery from the covid spending was proof that Biden was fiscally responsible as if covid was just a normal thing that happens regularly

If you have to continually lie to make your point you haven't gotten a very good point. And you don't have a very good point.

And his lies like that that bring trump back into power. Hope you're enjoying

[robosmith]

4 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Would you like to be read to at bedtime as well? Your hero destroyed per your request. https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obamacare-prescription-drugs-pharma-225444

LMAO. Nothing in your cite even mentions opioids. Duh

Of course they didn't take on Big Pharma, because that's what destroyed the LAST healthcare overhaul attempt.

Baby steps were necessary. 

 

[paxamericana]

13 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Baby steps were necessary. 

So an Obama apologist. Who do you think pays for the media??? The big pharma have an incentive to legalize their opioid. Why in the world would they allow the media to report on it? Why would the media report on anything negative about big pharmaceutical? I find it amusing to poke holes in your ideological views. The ideologues I’ve come across like you are usually willfully ignorant and/or dishonest.

[robosmith]

8 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

So an Obama apologist. Who do you think pays for the media??? The big pharma have an incentive to legalize their opioid. Why in the world would they allow the media to report on it? Why would the media report on anything negative about big pharmaceutical? I find it amusing to poke holes in your ideological views. The ideologues I’ve come across like you are usually willfully ignorant and/or dishonest.

Thanks for your lDIOTIC and unsubstantiated OPINIONS.

You are typical of posters who make claims but cannot back them up with EVIDENCE. 👋 

[User]

2 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Thanks for your lDIOTIC and unsubstantiated OPINIONS.

You are typical of posters who make claims but cannot back them up with EVIDENCE. 👋 

And you run and hide like the coward you are when folks like me do back up what we say with evidence and call you out for your lies when you don't. 

[BeaverFever]

On 7/6/2025 at 10:16 PM, CdnFox said:

Yeah that never happened

That’s exactly what happened and I roasted you for the error so you’re either lying or you truly are incapable of remembering inconvenient truths. 
 

On 7/6/2025 at 10:16 PM, CdnFox said:

We went through example after example and the simple fact is you're wrong.

Lol THAT never happened. What example did you provide?  You are notorious for NEVER giving examples or evidence for your claims. 
 

On 7/6/2025 at 10:16 PM, CdnFox said:

Not only that you tried desperately to claim that the covid years were an example of trump's overspending and that the recovery from the covid spending was proof that Biden was fiscally responsible as if covid was just a normal thing that happens regularly

No, what I told you was Trump was only president for the first 10 months of COVID and he ran deficits in every single year BEFORE COVID. Meanwhile Biden had to deal more with COVID and the post-pandemic economic shocks and supply chain issues from day 1 through nearly his entire presidency so I accurately pointed out it’s hilarious that you wanted to use COVID as a blanket excuse for Trump’s deficits but you won’t give even a sliver of an excuse to Biden. It just shows how ridiculously biased you are. 

 

On 7/6/2025 at 10:16 PM, CdnFox said:

If you have to continually lie to make your point you haven't gotten a very good point. And you don't have a very good point.

And his lies like that that bring trump back into power. Hope you're enjoying

 

As I’ve demonstrated again, the lies are coming from you and Trump and the MAGAs are the most egregious liars of them all
 

 

[User]

3 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

No, what I told you was Trump was only president for the first 10 months of COVID and he ran deficits in every single year BEFORE COVID. Meanwhile Biden had to deal more with COVID and the post-pandemic economic shocks and supply chain issues from day 1 through nearly his entire presidency so I accurately pointed out it’s hilarious that you wanted to use COVID as a blanket excuse for Trump’s deficits but you won’t give even a sliver of an excuse to Biden. It just shows how ridiculously biased you are. 

Hey, look who is back pushing more dishonest BS again?!

Trump's pre-pandemic deficits were less than Biden's post-pandemic deficits. 

Either way, it was both Democrats and Republicans who teamed up to spend the trillions in deficit in both Trump and Biden's years of 2020/2021.

As I pointed out before, Biden and Democrats shoved through several large spending bills that were not needed to deal with post-pandemic recovery, they were just massive spending bills for all their pet projects. 

 

[BeaverFever]

 

 

7 minutes ago, User said:

Hey, look who is back pushing more dishonest BS again?!

Trump's pre-pandemic deficits were less than Biden's post-pandemic deficits. 

Either way, it was both Democrats and Republicans who teamed up to spend the trillions in deficit in both Trump and Biden's years of 2020/2021.

As I pointed out before, Biden and Democrats shoved through several large spending bills that were not needed to deal with post-pandemic recovery, they were just massive spending bills for all their pet projects. 

 

What’s the BS?  Trump inherited a healthy economy what’s his excuse for pre-pandemic deficits?  Biden’s “post pandemic” budgets had to deal with post pandemic problems like the supply chain and struggling industries and states/municipalities that hadn’t recovered from the pandemic or these new issues. You CLAIM they were “not needed” but that’s just your opinion and others disagree. 

Yes it’s true all budgets need congressional approval so to the extent that some may have been approved by some democrats there’s blame to share. 
 

But once again I am not saying deficits are bad. Many/most democrats don’t say deficits are bad either.  It’s the Republicans who are hypocrites because “deficits are evil” has been a cornerstone of their political rhetoric since Reagan, constantly screeching about Democrats spending but yet Republicans are consistently the biggest deficit spenders of all.
 

There’s nothing wrong with saying you’re ok with deficits and running deficits but there’s dishonesty when you claim to be an anti-deficit crusader while having the worst record on deficit spending. Just like there’s nothing wrong with being an openly gay politician but these Republican anti-gay crusaders who get caught being secretly gay is a whole other thing. 

[User]

37 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

What’s the BS?  Trump inherited a healthy economy what’s his excuse for pre-pandemic deficits?  

You mean the pre-pandemic deficits that were lower than Obamas?

I make no excuses for them, Trump and the establishment Democrats and Republicans spent like drunken sailors, making deals to expand military spending and welfare spending together. 

Didn't like it at all. 

The BS is that you dishonestly try to argue this is a Republicans spend more than Democrats in deficit problem, when it isn't. 

39 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

You CLAIM they were “not needed” but that’s just your opinion and others disagree. 

Massive spending on all their pet projects wasn't needed. It was just spending to spend. Arguably prolonging the inflation cycle we were in... because duh, dumping more money into the economy when inflation is already high doesn't help inflation. 

40 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

But once again I am not saying deficits are bad. Many/most democrats don’t say deficits are bad either.

LOL, no, you were ignorantly and dishonestly trying to claim Republicans had the worst deficits. 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

but yet Republicans are consistently the biggest deficit spenders of all.

Just keep on lying... even after I showed you were wrong. 

 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

What’s the BS?  Trump inherited a healthy economy what’s his excuse for pre-pandemic deficits?  

Well the BS would be right there. Trump also inherited healthy deficits. And somehow you're angry that he couldn't make the deficits that Obama couldn't stop magically go away?

If you inherit large deficits it's difficult to beat large deficits right away. Trump's plan was to stimulate the economy and then reduce the deficit with the increased revenue, which was already showing that it was beginning to work but obviously they slammed straight into covid in the fourth year. So we'll never know if it would have fully worked but your insistence that he shouldn't have had deficits when he actually inherited sizable Deficits is childish

[BeaverFever]

On 7/9/2025 at 11:39 AM, User said:

You mean the pre-pandemic deficits that were lower than Obamas?

I make no excuses for them, Trump and the establishment Democrats and Republicans spent like drunken sailors, making deals to expand military spending and welfare spending together. 

Didn't like it at all. 

The BS is that you dishonestly try to argue this is a Republicans spend more than Democrats in deficit problem, when it isn't. 

Obama inherited the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression which happened during Bush Jr’s watch with a Republican House and Senate. plus the massive debts of Bush’s war in Iraq which he totally fabricated And Obama spending brought healthcare coverage to millions while Trump  was just giving tax cuts to millionaires 

[CdnFox]

Just now, BeaverFever said:

Obama inherited the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression which happened during Bush Jr’s watch with a Republican House and Senate. plus the massive debts of Bush’s war in Iraq which he totally fabricated And Obama spending brought healthcare coverage to millions while Trump  was just giving tax cuts to millionaires 

We've been over this too. I collapse happened because the democrats made it easy for anybody to borrow money even if they didn't have a job. And even Bill Clinton said they made a horrible mistake and tried to reverse it but they wouldn't. And while the republicans controlled the house they did not control the committee that made the decision about whether or not they would change that policy, that committee was controlled by the democrats who shot him down.

So once again you are lying through your teeth when I know you know the truth to try to present a False Image to bolster your fake argument

If you can't make your point with the truth then you have a shitty point and it's time to rethink. I can make every point I believe in I can defend every position that I hold with truths. That doesn't make them right but it does make them honest opinions. Yours are not honest and you need to ask yourself why that is

[User]

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Obama inherited the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression which happened during Bush Jr’s watch with a Republican House and Senate. plus the massive debts of Bush’s war in Iraq which he totally fabricated And Obama spending brought healthcare coverage to millions while Trump  was just giving tax cuts to millionaires 

I love how you dishonestly pretend like you didn't lie earlier when you tried to claim Republicans spent more in deficit, and now you move on to trying to justify why Democrats did. 

 

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, User said:

I love how you dishonestly pretend like you didn't lie earlier when you tried to claim Republicans spent more in deficit, and now you move on to trying to justify why Democrats did. 

 

I didn’t lie, I posted the facts to prove Republicans are the biggest deficit spenders, see the link below. . I never said Democrats didn’t run any deficits  

 

[User]

17 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

I didn’t lie, I posted the facts to prove Republicans are the biggest deficit spenders, see the link below. . I never said Democrats didn’t run any deficits  

You are still being dishonest. I did not say that you said Democrats didn't run any deficits... you are arguing against a strawman instead of owning up to you dishonesty in trying to justify the larger deficit spending by Democrats... by bringing up your previous lie trying to claim they didn't. 

 

[BeaverFever]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

We've been over this too. I collapse happened because the democrats made it easy for anybody to borrow money even if they didn't have a job. And even Bill Clinton said they made a horrible mistake and tried to reverse it but they wouldn't. And while the republicans controlled the house they did not control the committee that made the decision about whether or not they would change that policy, that committee was controlled by the democrats who shot him down.

So once again you are lying through your teeth when I know you know the truth to try to present a False Image to bolster your fake argument

If you can't make your point with the truth then you have a shitty point and it's time to rethink. I can make every point I believe in I can defend every position that I hold with truths. That doesn't make them right but it does make them honest opinions. Yours are not honest and you need to ask yourself why that is

LMAO that is such a ridiculous lie!  At least this time you’re repeating tired old Republican propaganda instead of inventing your own BS. As usual for republican propaganda its not only untrue but ridiculously simplistic.  Here’s a little tip for you:  it’s a big complicated world and the explanation of why and how things happen is also usually big and complicated. I get that the appeal of Conservatism to some is that it tries to dumb everything down to simple explanations but the simplicity should be a red flag that it probably isn’t accurate. 
 

So let’s be clear: there never was any law forcing lenders to lend money to people who couldn’t afford to pay it back. Trying to blame the meltdown on poor and black people was the Republican excuse for all the financial shenanigans they allowed or tolerated while they had control of the House, Senate and presidency. I am not staying all of it was due to changes they made but they sure held all the keys to power if they wanted to change something  In fact Bush’s 2002 “Blueprint for the American Dream” encouraged lenders as well as government controlled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to expand their lending to less qualified borrowers  

So as usual I’ll explain to you the real facts of the financial crisis and as usual you’ll whine and complain that its too long and your limited attention span can’t handle it, but I have a public duty to at least try. So here we go:

 

The fact is most of the subprime loans at the heart of the crisis (but not it’s only cause) were to middle and upper-middle class people treating their home as a piggybank,  trying to live higher up on the hog than their income warranted or stuck on the mortgage refinance treadmill that the US system allowed. The financial sector tried get to get the same financial shenanigans legalized in Canada but the Harper government including Mark Carney then at BOC told them to get lost. As Carney later said (I’m paraphrasing): “we didn’t approve these new financial products they were asking for because we couldn’t understand them and it was clear to us that they didn’t understand them either”.

The US financial meltdown  was caused by:

The Fed allowing banks, insurance companies and lenders to have extremely high leverage ratios (the ratio of how much they lend out/insure to how much cash they actually have).  In 2004, the Bush SEC relaxed leverage rules for major investment banks, allowing firms like Lehman Brothers to take on much more risk (up to 30–1 leverage, meaning for every dollar they have they could lend/insure 30)

Allowing Loans and mortgages with ultra-low “introductory” rates and ultra-high, unaffordable standard rates once the intro period expired , which forced borrowers to constantly refinance or re-borrow, taking out more and more equity as the housing bubble expanded (ie stuck on the refinance treadmill)

New investment products for bankers and other sophisticated investors called asset-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations which paid top dollar to purchase loans and mortgages from lenders and bundle them with other types of investments like stocks and bonds. The hot market for reselling loans created a moral hazard for lenders as they could immediately sell the loans they issued and would not be on the hook if the loan defaulted. In the hot market, loans would be packaged, sold, repackaged and resold through many traffickers and middlemen without anyone knowing anything about the actual borrowers   It was so lucrative hardly anyone was doing any due diligence on the borrowers 

As for the investors and brokerages who were ultimately ended up with these loans:  Their derivative investments attempted to use a lot of complicated math that finance/business people don’t understand to calculate the risk and return of these investments.  The math nerds hired to calculate this stuff were always under pressure from the business/finance people to fudge the numbers   The high interest rate of subprime lending (subprime doesn’t mean the borrower is poor, just that the incomes and credit history is suboptimal for the amount borrowed) made it an attractive asset, Finance people believed that if they sliced and diced and properly bundled these subprime assets with other higher quality assets they could reap the benefit of the high interest rate while diluting the risk if a large number of them defaulted. 

Then the Fed began raising interest rates to cool inflation, default rates began to rise and a housing glut fuelled by the bubble caused house prices to flatline and the housing bubble burst. Suddenly people - again middle class and even affluent people- who had become accustomed to refinancing their homes for ever increasing amounts couldn’t do another refinance and their into rate expired into these extreme contract rates.   Defaults started to skyrocket. 

At the same time investors and brokerages realized they had no idea how toxic all these mortgage-based investments were. Because of the extremely complicated financial products and phd-level math required they didn’t know how much exposure their investments had to the mortgage meltdown   People up and down the food chain from major multinationals to mom-and-pop and hobby investors had to write off TRILLIONS in value, which had a ripple effect through the US and global economy. 

Then there were Credit Default Swaps, private confidential insurance-like agreements between firms which were not regulated under insurance law or even public record.  Company A pays money to company B and if Company A suffers a financial loss, Company B will pay them $x.  Company A thinks it has peace of mind, Company B gets some regular cash flow. But because it’s unregulated and completely private, when companies started having financial problems and calling their CDS, they learned company B doesn’t have any money and unbeknownst to anyone had also been offering CDS to companies all over the country and can’t pay any of them either. So down they all go like dominos. 
 

In 2004–2006, the Bush administration blocked or ignored warnings from officials like Brooksley Born and some inside the Fed or the FDIC about the growing risk of unregulated derivatives .  Indeed throughout his presidency the Bush government adopted a policy of lax regulatory oversight, weak enforcement and ignoring/silencing warnings  By the time Bear Stears collapsed in March 2008 it was already long out of control 

 

So that’s how that went down, with specifics, not your simplistic fact-free nonsense that “Clinton did a something”. 

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, User said:

You are still being dishonest. I did not say that you said Democrats didn't run any deficits... you are arguing against a strawman instead of owning up to you dishonesty in trying to justify the larger deficit spending by Democrats... by bringing up your previous lie trying to claim they didn't. 

 

What “larger deficit spending by Democrats”. As I showed

1) the largest deficit spender was Reagan, a Republican. Period.  

2) EVERY SINGLE Republican since Reagan had larger deficits than EVERY SINGLE democrat with the ONE exception of Obama 

 

Get it?

[User]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

What “larger deficit spending by Democrats”. As I showed

1) the largest deficit spender was Reagan, a Republican. Period.  

2) EVERY SINGLE Republican since Reagan had larger deficits than EVERY SINGLE democrat with the ONE exception of Obama 

 

Get it?

1. Your claim was not who the largest deficit spender was. It was a generic claim about Republicans vs Democrats. 

You are dishonest once again. 

2. Another lie. Obama spent more than Bush in defict. Biden spent more than Trump in deficit. So, no, every single Republican since Reagan did not have larger deficits than every single Democrat, and that once "exception" is all it takes to prove your original lie wrong. 

You are dishonest once again. 

The only thing left for you to do now is run away like you always do. 

 

[BeaverFever]

20 minutes ago, User said:

1. Your claim was not who the largest deficit spender was. It was a generic claim about Republicans vs Democrats. 

You are dishonest once again. 

2. Another lie. Obama spent more than Bush in defict. Biden spent more than Trump in deficit. So, no, every single Republican since Reagan did not have larger deficits than every single Democrat, and that once "exception" is all it takes to prove your original lie wrong. 

You are dishonest once again. 

The only thing left for you to do now is run away like you always do. 

 

1. Regan is a Republican and is the biggest deficit spender   That is Exhibit A in the argument that Republicans run bigger deficits

2. Obama is the only exception to the statement that Republicans run bigger deficits, as I already said. Biden did not run a bigger deficit than Trump, your statement is incorrect or a as a MAGA would say “you’re a liar”. 
 

So yea since at least Reagan, every single Republican president has run a larger deficit than every single Democrat, with the exception of Obama. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I didn’t lie, I posted the facts to prove Republicans are the biggest deficit spenders, see the link below. . I never said Democrats didn’t run any deficits  

 

Once again you have to lie to try and make your point. You take Biden and Trump's covid years as if they are examples of their spending

And what you fail to acknowledge is that overall Biden's deficits were much higher. In total trump's deficits were 5.43 Trillion to Biden's 7.71

So Biden actually ran higher deficits by far. It wasn't even close

U.S. government - Budget surplus or deficit 2029| Statista

But you need to stick to the LIE by cherry picking a couple of covid years and pretending that's this somehow means that Biden actually spent less in deficits than trump

When you pull that kind of bullshit you might as well admit you know you're wrong and you're just lying to try and save face

3 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

1. Regan is a Republican and is the biggest deficit spender   That is Exhibit A in the argument that Republicans run bigger deficits

2. Obama is the only exception to the statement that Republicans run bigger deficits, as I already said. Biden did not run a bigger deficit than Trump, your statement is incorrect or a as a MAGA would say “you’re a liar”. 
 

So yea since at least Reagan, every single Republican president has run a larger deficit than every single Democrat, with the exception of Obama. 

We've been over all of this stuff, the simple fact of the matter is you're being extremely dishonest. And you blew your credibility out of the water when you suggested that Biden spent less in deficits than trump did.

You're not looking for the truth, you're trying to twist the facts and cherry pick to try and create the illusion that you want even though the truth is exactly the opposite and you should be deeply ashamed of yourself for doing that

[User]

7 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

1. Regan is a Republican and is the biggest deficit spender   That is Exhibit A in the argument that Republicans run bigger deficits

I am not even sure the is true, I didn't run the numbers that far back, I just pointed out that you were moving the goal posts to a claim you didn't originally make and I never originally challenged. 

So... lets go look:

Nope, Obama added the most in total. 

FDR had the most by percentage of GDP. 

So, what numbers are you using?

7 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

2. Obama is the only exception to the statement that Republicans run bigger deficits, as I already said. Biden did not run a bigger deficit than Trump, your statement is incorrect or a as a MAGA would say “you’re a liar”. 

Too bad your original claim didn't leave room for such an exception for Obama and yet again, you are a liar about Biden. 

Biden did in fact run larger deficits each year than Trump did except for one. You only focus on ONE year of Trump, not every year under each. 

So, once again, you lie. You lie. You lie. 

You are just a sad liar. 

 

Edited July 12, 2025 by User

[BeaverFever]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Once again you have to lie to try and make your point. You take Biden and Trump's covid years as if they are examples of their spending

And what you fail to acknowledge is that overall Biden's deficits were much higher. In total trump's deficits were 5.43 Trillion to Biden's 7.71

So Biden actually ran higher deficits by far. It wasn't even close

U.S. government - Budget surplus or deficit 2029| Statista

But you need to stick to the LIE by cherry picking a couple of covid years and pretending that's this somehow means that Biden actually spent less in deficits than trump

When you pull that kind of bullshit you might as well admit you know you're wrong and you're just lying to try and save face

We've been over all of this stuff, the simple fact of the matter is you're being extremely dishonest. And you blew your credibility out of the water when you suggested that Biden spent less in deficits than trump did.

You're not looking for the truth, you're trying to twist the facts and cherry pick to try and create the illusion that you want even though the truth is exactly the opposite and you should be deeply ashamed of yourself for doing that

Sorry my friend you are wrong 

Trump ran up national debt twice as much as Biden: new analysis
 

By the numbers: Trump added $8.4 trillion in borrowing over a ten-year window, CRFB finds in a report out this morning. 

• Biden's figure clocks in at $4.3 trillion with seven months remaining in his term.
• If you exclude COVID relief spending from the tally, the numbers are $4.8 trillion for Trump and $2.2 trillion for Biden.
   

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/24/trump-biden-debt-deficits-election
 

https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt
 

US budget deficit grows to $1.3 trillion, the second highest six-month level on record

https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-budget-deficit-spending-tax-revenues-f2718421a0f0c1a9f856d06ac4563e41

 

 

[BeaverFever]

12 minutes ago, User said:

I am not even sure the is true, I didn't run the numbers that far back, I just pointed out that you were moving the goal posts to a claim you didn't originally make and I never originally challenged. 

So... lets go look:

Nope, Obama added the most in total. 

FDR had the most by percentage of GDP. 

So, what numbers are you using?

FDR was president for 16 years which imcluding Great Depression and World War 2, gimme a break.
 

Ronald Reagan’s debt increase is legendary. Republicans used to say that’s how he won the cold war, by outspending the Soviets.  The national debt increased by 186% during his term.  It increased by “only” 88% under Obama  

 

ChatGPT:

 

Here is a comprehensive look at how the gross federal debt (total debt, including what the government owes itself) changed under each U.S. president since Ronald Reagan, both in dollar terms and as a percentage of GDP.

 

 

🇺🇸

U.S. Federal Debt Increase by President (1981–2024)

 

President	Years	Debt at Start	Debt at End	$ Increase	% Increase	Debt-to-GDP Start	Debt-to-GDP End
Ronald Reagan	1981–1989	$0.998 trillion	$2.86 trillion	+$1.86 trillion	+186%	~31%	~52%
George H. W. Bush	1989–1993	$2.86 trillion	$4.41 trillion	+$1.55 trillion	+54%	~52%	~66%
Bill Clinton	1993–2001	$4.41 trillion	$5.81 trillion	+$1.40 trillion	+32%	~66%	~55%
George W. Bush	2001–2009	$5.81 trillion	$10.63 trillion	+$4.82 trillion	+83%	~55%	~73%
Barack Obama	2009–2017	$10.63 trillion	$19.95 trillion	+$9.32 trillion	+88%	~73%	~104%
Donald Trump	2017–2021	$19.95 trillion	$27.75 trillion	+$7.8 trillion	+39%	~104%	~128%
Joe Biden	2021–2024*	$27.75 trillion	~$34.6 trillion	+$6.85 trillion	+25%	~128%	~122% (est.)

*2024 figures are estimates as of mid-year.

Sources: U.S. Treasury, CBO, OMB, BEA

 

 

 

 

📌 Key Takeaways

 

 

• Reagan tripled the debt in dollar terms and reversed the post-WWII trend of declining debt-to-GDP.
• Clinton is the only modern president to reduce the debt-to-GDP ratio, thanks to economic growth and budget surpluses.
• Obama saw the largest dollar increase in debt due to the Great Recession and recovery efforts.
• Trump added nearly $8 trillion, including the massive 2020 COVID stimulus.
• Biden’s nominal debt has risen sharply, but debt-to-GDP has declined slightly due to strong post-pandemic GDP growth.

 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

LMAO that is such a ridiculous lie!  At least this time you’re repeating tired old Republican propaganda instead of inventing your own BS. As usual for republican propaganda its not only untrue but ridiculously simplistic.  Here’s a little tip for you:  it’s a big complicated world and the explanation of why and how things happen is also usually big and complicated. I get that the appeal of Conservatism to some is that it tries to dumb everything down to simple explanations but the simplicity should be a red flag that it probably isn’t accurate. 
 

So let’s be clear: there never was any law forcing lenders to lend money to people who couldn’t afford to pay it back. Trying to blame the meltdown on poor and black people was the Republican excuse for all the financial shenanigans they allowed or tolerated while they had control of the House, Senate and presidency. I am not staying all of it was due to changes they made but they sure held all the keys to power if they wanted to change something  In fact Bush’s 2002 “Blueprint for the American Dream” encouraged lenders as well as government controlled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to expand their lending to less qualified borrowers  

So as usual I’ll explain to you the real facts of the financial crisis and as usual you’ll whine and complain that its too long and your limited attention span can’t handle it, but I have a public duty to at least try. So here we go:

 

The fact is most of the subprime loans at the heart of the crisis (but not it’s only cause) were to middle and upper-middle class people treating their home as a piggybank,  trying to live higher up on the hog than their income warranted or stuck on the mortgage refinance treadmill that the US system allowed. The financial sector tried get to get the same financial shenanigans legalized in Canada but the Harper government including Mark Carney then at BOC told them to get lost. As Carney later said (I’m paraphrasing): “we didn’t approve these new financial products they were asking for because we couldn’t understand them and it was clear to us that they didn’t understand them either”.

The US financial meltdown  was caused by:

The Fed allowing banks, insurance companies and lenders to have extremely high leverage ratios (the ratio of how much they lend out/insure to how much cash they actually have).  In 2004, the Bush SEC relaxed leverage rules for major investment banks, allowing firms like Lehman Brothers to take on much more risk (up to 30–1 leverage, meaning for every dollar they have they could lend/insure 30)

Allowing Loans and mortgages with ultra-low “introductory” rates and ultra-high, unaffordable standard rates once the intro period expired , which forced borrowers to constantly refinance or re-borrow, taking out more and more equity as the housing bubble expanded (ie stuck on the refinance treadmill)

New investment products for bankers and other sophisticated investors called asset-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations which paid top dollar to purchase loans and mortgages from lenders and bundle them with other types of investments like stocks and bonds. The hot market for reselling loans created a moral hazard for lenders as they could immediately sell the loans they issued and would not be on the hook if the loan defaulted. In the hot market, loans would be packaged, sold, repackaged and resold through many traffickers and middlemen without anyone knowing anything about the actual borrowers   It was so lucrative hardly anyone was doing any due diligence on the borrowers 

As for the investors and brokerages who were ultimately ended up with these loans:  Their derivative investments attempted to use a lot of complicated math that finance/business people don’t understand to calculate the risk and return of these investments.  The math nerds hired to calculate this stuff were always under pressure from the business/finance people to fudge the numbers   The high interest rate of subprime lending (subprime doesn’t mean the borrower is poor, just that the incomes and credit history is suboptimal for the amount borrowed) made it an attractive asset, Finance people believed that if they sliced and diced and properly bundled these subprime assets with other higher quality assets they could reap the benefit of the high interest rate while diluting the risk if a large number of them defaulted. 

Then the Fed began raising interest rates to cool inflation, default rates began to rise and a housing glut fuelled by the bubble caused house prices to flatline and the housing bubble burst. Suddenly people - again middle class and even affluent people- who had become accustomed to refinancing their homes for ever increasing amounts couldn’t do another refinance and their into rate expired into these extreme contract rates.   Defaults started to skyrocket. 

At the same time investors and brokerages realized they had no idea how toxic all these mortgage-based investments were. Because of the extremely complicated financial products and phd-level math required they didn’t know how much exposure their investments had to the mortgage meltdown   People up and down the food chain from major multinationals to mom-and-pop and hobby investors had to write off TRILLIONS in value, which had a ripple effect through the US and global economy. 

Then there were Credit Default Swaps, private confidential insurance-like agreements between firms which were not regulated under insurance law or even public record.  Company A pays money to company B and if Company A suffers a financial loss, Company B will pay them $x.  Company A thinks it has peace of mind, Company B gets some regular cash flow. But because it’s unregulated and completely private, when companies started having financial problems and calling their CDS, they learned company B doesn’t have any money and unbeknownst to anyone had also been offering CDS to companies all over the country and can’t pay any of them either. So down they all go like dominos. 
 

In 2004–2006, the Bush administration blocked or ignored warnings from officials like Brooksley Born and some inside the Fed or the FDIC about the growing risk of unregulated derivatives .  Indeed throughout his presidency the Bush government adopted a policy of lax regulatory oversight, weak enforcement and ignoring/silencing warnings  By the time Bear Stears collapsed in March 2008 it was already long out of control 

 

So that’s how that went down, with specifics, not your simplistic fact-free nonsense that “Clinton did a something”. 

dude I have already posted all of the proofs for all of this before. this is not even a controversial stance

but you're saying is a lie, I have posted the truth along with numerous links and I am not going to do it every single time you choose to lie again

the democrats under clinton passed the fannie mae andfreddie mac wasthat made it virtuallyimpossible not to qualify for a mortgage because everybody deserved their own home.even before he left officeclinton spoke out saying they'd gone too far and this was a mistake but the democrats would not reverse it. they would not reverse it underbush either and he could not force the issue.then the bubble that they created broke

sorry but this was a mess that democrats created. And that is always the case

 

and like I said,you lost all credibility when you tried to pretend that trump's deficit spending was higher than biden's.you're just a liar and will say any lie you can to try and make democrats look good because you don't care about the truth you only care about your tribalism

Edited July 12, 2025 by CdnFox