Harper Withdraws nominee for Ethics Role

[Temagami Scourge]

Shoopster:

You said that you posted something just to "piss me off"

Yep. You decided to misrepresent half of what I said, and then ignored the rest. That pisses me off, so I gave you a written bitch-slap.

If it hurt that much, then I'm sorry for hurting your feelings and I won't do it again. However, I expect the same standard from you, so make my quotes contextual and I'd gladly debate with you. Until you learn proper written presentation, don't be surprised if people get pissed at you.

plus you antagonize Canuck E Stan and Argus?

See what I mean? On another thread, Chuck came out of the blue and hurled personal insults at me. I met fire with fire, and yet you'd protect him ? To me, you are taking sides and setting up the battlelines, so how do you expect me to react to childish behaviour like that?

What is the motivation for such childish behaviour?

good question. I have no idea why Chuck and his ilk would do stuff like that, but at least I've stopped until someone wants to have at me again.

This is freaking outrageous? Why should this guy be able to get away with so flagrantly violating the rules ?

Buddy...I have a thread full of examples where your buddies go on and on about Natives being criminals, being lazy, freeloading off of Canadians blah, blah, blah. Where were you when that was occuring? I didn't see you post in there saying that maybe that only some Natives are like that, that maybe generalizations are a bad thing?

Unless you believed it as wholeheartedly as the rest of your buddies?

Well, now is your chance to prove me wrong.

In ending, the one critical point is that Harper is acting like a whiny-baby, and continues to do so over the Morgan episode. Harper's downfall is that he is refusing to engage the opposition. I was of the impression -even if I didn't vote for him- that if he is truly honest about a different form of governing, then we'd see non-partisan committees discussing and making recommendations on a plethora of National issues...and clearly we are not. In the worst case, Harper likes to blame the previous government for everything, and blaming others is not a cornerstone of effective leadership.

[Temagami Scourge]

Nocrap:

I think I'm going to really like reading your posts

Thanks for the compliment.

... hope you stick around for awhile and not be scared off by right-wing rants.

if anything, I appear to be the one that's disturbing them . I think the reason for this is that I'm not as far left as they assume, but nor am I as far left as others assume. The one thing I do do is treat others with respect as long as they see fit to do likewise, and unfortunately, many people prefer to hurl insults instead of sticking to the argument.

[August1991]

In ending, the one critical point is that Harper is acting like a whiny-baby, and continues to do so over the Morgan episode. Harper's downfall is that he is refusing to engage the opposition. I was of the impression -even if I didn't vote for him- that if he is truly honest about a different form of governing, then we'd see non-partisan committees discussing and making recommendations on a plethora of National issues...and clearly we are not.

Temagami, amongst your various assertions, contradictions and blustering language, I'll pick this one (since it also is connected to the thread title).

Gwyn Morgan was one among four commissioners proposed to this commission. The other three were Roy MacLaren (formerly a senior, federal Liberal cabinet minister), Hassan Khosrowshahi and Jacqueline Boutet (whom Liberal David Collenette found fit to name to the Board of Via Rail).

This strikes me as a mixed, competent group that engages the opposition.

[Black Dog]

August:

That's disingenuous, BD. If Harper had gone over the Committee's head, all hell would have broken loose as media and opposition jumped on Harper for being anti-democratic (remember Emerson?).

And...? Since when has Harper taken pains to please the media? No, to the crowd he's playing to, it's better to have the oppossition look like obstructionists than take a strong stand on an issue that most Canadians don't care about.

Nothing except a bunch of partisan MPs who will vote against anyone to embarrass the government. I can understand the NDP's position on Morgan's nomination - he's hardly the kind of person the NDP likes. But the Liberals and the BQ were being partisan. Harper's comment referred to the need for a new crew.

Except they can't, you know, stop him. It's his perogative.

BD, your theory is too slick by half. Harper's anger and frustration were genuine. There were four nominees for this commission and each one made sense. This was no setup.

Maybe not. And I'm not absolving the opossition from blame. But once again, the outrage over what is run-of-the-mill political gamesmanship makes the CPC and its adherents look like political naifs.

THE OPPOSITION was petty and the prime minister was petulant. Needless to say, the cause of good governance was not advanced in the least

[August1991]

From link above:

But no one was more piqued than the prime minister himself, who childishly took his ball and went home. Mr. Harper announced he would nominate no new candidates until such time as he has a majority government, and therefore the numbers to control the process.

In other words, he wants a committee that will rubber-stamp his choice to head a commission which, in turn, is supposed to vet his other appointments. What’s wrong with this picture?

Those are the optics from the perspective of the editorial writers, but they're not in the political arena.

I think Harper learned a lesson from the shenanigans last spring when Martin delayed a confidence vote until he could get Stronach to cross the floor. And the lesson is: You can't play the Liberal game by their rules and win.

After the spring 2005 vote, Harper walked away and bided his time until the right moment. He's wisely doing the same thing here.

[Argus]

I too think that Morgan's offer to do the job for $ 1.00 a year, makes us somehow beholden. It's more about insuring that the job goes to a CPC friendly candidate than looking for the best person to fulfill the mandate.

Sigh. The $1 a year was in the nature of leading by example, of doing a public service rather than just taking a big chunk of change as a reward from your party. It harkens back to the old days when men of means, mean of achievement and accomplishment felt a duty to help their country, and would forego renumeration for that privilage.

We are all so used to the Liberal years of useless, ignorant suckups lining up at the trough to collect fat salaries for very little work - and work they aren't qualified for anyway - that it simply doesn't occur to some that people might undertake a task without thought for their personal welfare or advancement.

[Argus]

Argoose:

Yes, well, you've made enough, haven't you .

Please...go find me one racist statement I've made...and don't make it up. Even I would like to know what racist venom I've spewed!

Your statements about the whites of Caledonia certainly qualify even by my standards, much less by the hairtrigger standards you are using here.

[Argus]

Nocrap:

I think I'm going to really like reading your posts

Thanks for the compliment.

Don't be too complimented. He'd have said the same if you were Black or Muslim or Lesbian or disabled or...

[Argus]

In ending, the one critical point is that Harper is acting like a whiny-baby, and continues to do so over the Morgan episode. Harper's downfall is that he is refusing to engage the opposition. I was of the impression -even if I didn't vote for him- that if he is truly honest about a different form of governing, then we'd see non-partisan committees discussing and making recommendations on a plethora of National issues...and clearly we are not.

Temagami, amongst your various assertions, contradictions and blustering language, I'll pick this one (since it also is connected to the thread title).

Gwyn Morgan was one among four commissioners proposed to this commission. The other three were Roy MacLaren (formerly a senior, federal Liberal cabinet minister), Hassan Khosrowshahi and Jacqueline Boutet (whom Liberal David Collenette found fit to name to the Board of Via Rail).

This strikes me as a mixed, competent group that engages the opposition.

The makeup of the commitee makes me wonder if there weren't some sort of deal made in advance. You've got the Tory, the Liberal, the Muslim minority guy (NDP) and the Quebec Francophone. Coincidence? And maybe the opposition broke their word in order to score some cheap political points and that was what enraged Harper?

[shoop]

You are ignorant and rude. Yet somehow allowed to get away with breaking the rules of the forum.

Hmmm, you don't like what I say so it justifies being so childish and petty? Wow, must be a beautiful world that you live in.

(btw how exactly did I misrepresent what you said?)

Yep. You decided to misrepresent half of what I said, and then ignored the rest. That pisses me off, so I gave you a written bitch-slap.

If it hurt that much, then I'm sorry for hurting your feelings and I won't do it again. However, I expect the same standard from you, so make my quotes contextual and I'd gladly debate with you. Until you learn proper written presentation, don't be surprised if people get pissed at you.

[Temagami Scourge]

Aout:

Temagami, amongst your various assertions, contradictions and blustering language, I'll pick this one (since it also is connected to the thread title).

Ok...now this is an amusing statement....

Gwyn Morgan was one among four commissioners proposed to this commission. The other three were Roy MacLaren (formerly a senior, federal Liberal cabinet minister), Hassan Khosrowshahi and Jacqueline Boutet (whom Liberal David Collenette found fit to name to the Board of Via Rail). This strikes me as a mixed, competent group that engages the opposition

Although it sounds like you make a good point, to me, the difference between these people and Morgan is that they haven't said anything that can be challenged publically, therefore why would they present an issue? I hope they bring non-partisan sense to the appointments commission, but that's a tough sell considering that we now live in a post-David Emerson world.

anything can go.

[Temagami Scourge]

Argoose:

Your statements about the whites of Caledonia certainly qualify even by my standards,

I beg to differ. I spoke of Caledonians in general, mentioned their drunken behaviour and the racist comments they make while they are under the influence of liquid courage. None of that seems racist to me, but I can't get dissuade you from your method of interpretation.

however, by your reasoning, I can't comment on the drunken rage of Oiler's fans after the series-winning game the other night, because that would mean that I'm racist towards Edmontonians.

much less by the hairtrigger standards you are using here.

Oh no, you are going to accuse me of being racist towards Edmontonians because some got out of hand and plundered downtown stores...in a drunken rampage!

Tell me this Argoose, would I be racist if I started a thread that said : "Edmonton Wins Division! Celebration spoiled as Rioters run rampant in downtown!", and underscored it by saying: Why doesn't the laws apply to Edmontonians?

[Temagami Scourge]

Yo, Yo, Yo G:

The makeup of the commitee makes me wonder if there weren't some sort of deal made in advance. You've got the Tory, the Liberal, the Muslim minority guy (NDP) and the Quebec Francophone. Coincidence?

Ahh...I can almost hear those little wheels in your head turning away as your brain gets overwashed by an idea!

However, I think you think wrong, and I'll tell you why. I find that folks from many parts of the world -not just Jamaicans and Vietnamese or Cambodians like Morgan maintains- have rather rough edges depending on the culture from which they originate. When I say that, I mean that they are used to right-wing ideologies and harsh punishments ie. public hangings, beheadings etc.

In this case, and I don't know the man, but Mr. Khosrowshahi may have some of these rightist leanings because he is used to a much more virulent form of thought and justice by coming from Iran. (note : How do I know he is Iranian? I don't for certain, but the spelling of the name is Iranian, so I'm making that assumption...I used to work as an Immigration Enforcement Officer after getting out of the military, so I learned enough not to refer to people as "Muslim" or "Islamic" like others of ignorance have a habit of doing)

And maybe the opposition broke their word in order to score some cheap political points and that was what enraged Harper?

Although you make an interesting conspiracy, I can't see how a fractured opposition could keep together for something as small as this affair. If the opposition was that keen on working together, wouldn't we still have a Liberal minority government supported by the NDP. Why would both parties wait til they're in opposition before making a play like this?

You haven't been giving tip-offs to the FBI about Hoffa lately, have you Argoose?

[scribblet]

You are ignorant and rude. Yet somehow allowed to get away with breaking the rules of the forum.

Hmmm, you don't like what I say so it justifies being so childish and petty? Wow, must be a beautiful world that you live in.

(btw how exactly did I misrepresent what you said?)

Yep. You decided to misrepresent half of what I said, and then ignored the rest. That pisses me off, so I gave you a written bitch-slap.

If it hurt that much, then I'm sorry for hurting your feelings and I won't do it again. However, I expect the same standard from you, so make my quotes contextual and I'd gladly debate with you. Until you learn proper written presentation, don't be surprised if people get pissed at you.

I thought there was going to be a new moderator ?

[Temagami Scourge]

Scrib:

Instead of rehashing personal attacks, why not stick to the topic at hand and discuss your thoughts on Morgan's failed appointment with the Appoinments commission? We don't need people like you constantly trying to drag the rest of us down to your level. I've made an effort to overcome, so I can't see why you are unable to.

Temagami.

[fixer1]

For the most part this place has been not too bad at keeping things on topic, but yes there are a few who really do take things off topic to always suit their own agenda. I found out quickly who and why and then just chose to ignore these people. Personally I do not think anyone should have to feel the wrath of any of these people, written or verbal. The is where site mederators come in. Being that this is a place where we can debate differing opinions, it sometimes means that things can get heated and to be fair to all, it must be kept open to all opinions on the same topic. But when the titled topic and the one discussed are now two differing entities it shpould be then split and the separte threads can then go on. Just my take on it though.

[scribblet]

Just think, the liberals of all people questioning someone's integrity. Imagine, Joe Volpe of all people, doing the questioning. Note though that the Liberals never got around to create the office themselves - hmmmm

[Argus]

Scrib:

Instead of rehashing personal attacks, why not stick to the topic at hand and discuss your thoughts on Morgan's failed appointment with the Appoinments commission? We don't need people like you constantly trying to drag the rest of us down to your level.

In your case he'd need a miners helmet so he could tunnel down to find you, and a heavy lift crane to pull you UP to his level.

[Temagami Scourge]

"Just think, the liberals of all people questioning someone's integrity. Imagine, Joe Volpe of all people, doing the questioning. Note though that the Liberals never got around to create the office themselves - hmmmm "

Excellent scrib! You've come back to the fold. I'm impressed that you've shown your adult side.

Keep up the good work!

TS

[Temagami Scourge]

Argus:

In your case he'd need.....

My god man! Can't this childishness stop and we focus on the questions at hand! No sooner do we get Scrib settled down than you chime in with personal attacks Argus!

Please, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the issue around Harper's appointment of Morgan to the appointments post! Focus on the topic at hand, and if you don't then find somewhere else to spew your venom.

Temagami

[Temagami Scourge]

Personally, I don't have a problem with racial profiling depending on how its done. If witnesses seean amish male gunning down some people at a truck stop, then by jeepers the police should look for an Amish male.

The problem with profiling is that the net often is cast too wide, and all this does is create bitterness among the group getting stopped/searched/questioned etc. Morgan buys into the blanket approach in his full speech, and that is not only unhelpful to society at large, it gives the impression that certain groups are inherently criminal from top to bottom, and that is insulting.

The second part of the problem is the manner in which "our leader" carried on about the appointment. Unlike other posters who assume a conspiracy, I simply think that Harper was caught with his pants down by giving a position of responsibility to someone who paints whole groups of people as inherently violent.

To those of us who don't share Morgans' heritage, non-Caucasian criminality rings hollow when you consider who started the big wars last century. It certainly wasn't the Jamaicans or Vietnamese.

So it is best to be careful on how you proceed with racial profiling.

[Nocrap]

Nocrap:

I think I'm going to really like reading your posts

Thanks for the compliment.

... hope you stick around for awhile and not be scared off by right-wing rants.

if anything, I appear to be the one that's disturbing them . I think the reason for this is that I'm not as far left as they assume, but nor am I as far left as others assume. The one thing I do do is treat others with respect as long as they see fit to do likewise, and unfortunately, many people prefer to hurl insults instead of sticking to the argument.

I'm not that far left either...more centre-left. However, when I point out Harper flaws (egads!); I've been called everything from a Left-Lib Liar to a Liberal hugging socialist; despite the fact that I'm not really a Liberal supporter and detest what they did with our money.

However, it is a new era, or so I'm told; so let it go. Harper needs to stand on his own merit, despite what the Republicans advised, and forget what the others did in the past. So far, he has just emulated what got the Liberals into trouble in the first place; so no accountable government in the works.

Presenting Morgan; a Reform/Harper/CPC fundraiser with a history of racist remarks and ties to the Fraser Institute; is partisan politics at it's worst. Pitching a fit and suggesting to Canadians that the only way to achieve accountability is by giving him a majority, just made him look silly. I'm thankful everyday that he does have a minority; clearly the only way he will every really be accountable.

He has already taken a Totalitarian approach to running our country, so no way should we give him that much power. Can you say Gestapo?

[scribblet]

Sure, the liberals said it was a "patronage" appointment, how patently absurd! They of all folks should recognize patronage when they see it, but I guess they never paid off old party friends with lucrative political plums.

Except that, Mr. Morgan, would have been paid only $1.00 ... After years of Liberal patronage, it was exactly what Canada needed, it was the best deal around for eons, Too bad the NDP and Liberal majority on this committee couldn't look past partisan politics and do what was best for the country.

[Argus]

Argus:

In your case he'd need.....

My god man! Can't this childishness stop

Your snivelling is tiresome. Is it genetic or cultural?

[Argus]

To those of us who don't share Morgans' heritage, non-Caucasian criminality rings hollow when you consider who started the big wars last century. It certainly wasn't the Jamaicans or Vietnamese.

Wow. I've seen some inane comments on this site, but this has to take the cake.

We shouldn't care if 80% of the gang violence is Jamaican because, like, most of the countries which fought world war two were Europeans.

Nothing Morgan said was out of line, nothing he said was false.