Should Canada go into Darfur

[scribblet]

Saw on the news yesterday a demonstration demanding that Harper take the lead and go into Darfur?

Now Cloony et al want the U.S. to go in... Whats up with this? First off, its a muslim country, any intervention by the west will cause more violence and terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan, putting our soldiers in more danger than they allready are.

Secondly, why is it okay for the U.S. and Canada to put their soldiers in harms way when it only suits the left?

Thirdly, If Harper did this, and Canadian soldiers are killed, how long would it take before the protesters turned against Harper?

As sad and grave as this situation is, we should not go in without the U.N.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/30/us.sudan.ap/index.html

Celebrities, activists rally for Darfur

Demonstrators want U.S. action to end genocide

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Thousands of people joined celebrities and lawmakers at a rally Sunday urging the Bush administration and Congress to help end genocide in Sudan's Darfur region.

"Not on our watch!" the crowd chanted as a parade of speakers lined up for their turn on a stage on the National Mall, the Capitol serving as a backdrop.

[uOttawaMan]

I agree, going in without UN support is not a good idea for many reason.

1) We are already heavily commited to Afghanistan and need to evaluate our troop resources.

2) Continued in-action by the UN, (and countries going around the UN) will only lead to its destruction and the almost certain weakening of global solidarity and cooperation.

3) It would be a chance for Canada to regain some of its peacekeeping status.

[Black Dog]

Go into Darfur with what? We're kinda busy with that whole Afghanistan thing. Please kids: one misguided, quixotic mission at a time.

As for UN approval: people talk about it like it means something. It doesn't.

[Army Guy]

I think before Canadians dig out thier 60's protesting outfits and thier bag of weed, they should do a little research on the UN mission to Darfur first. As a soldier i'd rather do back to back tours in Afgan than enter a region were life can be bought and extinguished for a cigarette.

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[August1991]

Go into Darfur with what? We're kinda busy with that whole Afghanistan thing. Please kids: one misguided, quixotic mission at a time.

As for UN approval: people talk about it like it means something. It doesn't.

Presumably, we would pull troops out of Afghanistan (or we would never have sent them there to be begin with). IOW, this whole debate is a way to criticize the Tory's priorities.

Sorry if I appear partisan but it seems to me that this "Darfur idea" is being driven by the CBC and the Liberals. And the purpose is to show how misguided and cruel the Conservatives and the Americans are since they foolishly send troops to Iraq and Afghanistan when people are dying in Sudan.

[geoffrey]

People were dying in Iraq and Afghanistan too, just not too that extent.

If we had the military we once used to, and actually had influence in the world anymore, then yes, I would say we should be in Darfur.

But we don't have the troops, and that Afghanistan commitment is very important for the long term. If we could bring in another 3000-4000 combat troops over the next year (that'll be pretty crazy recruiting if they did) then absolutely.

I've always insisted Canada should act unilaterally in Darfur, since obviously the UN is willing to just watch people die as usual. It's our duty to be there, and in a number of other places around the world. But our military has been so neglected over the last couple of decades that we just have to watch people die now, we can't act.

[Black Dog]

Sorry if I appear partisan but it seems to me that this "Darfur idea" is being driven by the CBC and the Liberals. And the purpose is to show how misguided and cruel the Conservatives and the Americans are since they foolishly send troops to Iraq and Afghanistan when people are dying in Sudan.

Well, I think they'd have a point there. But then, there's lots of places where lots of people are dying. Can't fix 'em all (hell: we can't even fix the places we're trying to fix).

I've always insisted Canada should act unilaterally in Darfur, since obviously the UN is willing to just watch people die as usual. It's our duty to be there, and in a number of other places around the world. But our military has been so neglected over the last couple of decades that we just have to watch people die now, we can't act.

You make it sound like people dying while we stand by is a recent phenomenon. It's not. There's a reason we and the rest of the democratic, industrial world are not in Darfur. It's the same reason we didn't lift a finge rin Rwanda: there's nothing in it for us.

[August1991]

You make it sound like people dying while we stand by is a recent phenomenon. It's not. There's a reason we and the rest of the democratic, industrial world are not in Darfur. It's the same reason we didn't lift a finge rin Rwanda: there's nothing in it for us.

I make it sound like?

Like a dang fool, I listened to the CBC radio news this morning, and then tuned in while driving this afternoon. Both times, they were discussing Sudan - with invited guest, Liberal MP Keith Martin.

Echoing another Liberal, my feeling was "Where's Darfur?"

Anybody who has spent anytime in a third world country knows that there is, to varying degrees, needless death and suffering. Whether anything can be done about it is another question entirely.

Anyway, 99.9% of Canadians couldn't find Darfur on a map and so we're not discussing Darfur at all. We're discussing Canadian domestic politics by proxy.

And while I'm on the topic, why does the CBC spend so much time talking about International events that no one in Canada knows anything about? It's Kafkaesque.

[Black Dog]

I make it sound like?

Not you: geoffery.

Anyway, 99.9% of Canadians couldn't find Darfur on a map and so we're not discussing Darfur at all. We're discussing Canadian domestic politics by proxy.

Most Canadians probably can't find Afghanistan on a map either. And I guarantee a sizeable majority can't tell you what language they speak over there. So...I'm not sure what the point is here.

And while I'm on the topic, why does the CBC spend so much time talking about International events that no one in Canada knows anything about? It's Kafkaesque.

Well, how are people to acquire any knowledge of international events if no one talks about them?

[geoffrey]

You make it sound like people dying while we stand by is a recent phenomenon. It's not. There's a reason we and the rest of the democratic, industrial world are not in Darfur. It's the same reason we didn't lift a finge rin Rwanda: there's nothing in it for us.

Oh right, so thats the right thing to do, just because it has happened before. Funny how your progressive respect for the less fortunate ends at your border.

[scribblet]

Sorry if I appear partisan but it seems to me that this "Darfur idea" is being driven by the CBC and the Liberals. And the purpose is to show how misguided and cruel the Conservatives and the Americans are since they foolishly send troops to Iraq and Afghanistan when people are dying in Sudan.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. There isn't a heck of a lot at the moment for the CBC et al to carp about so they try to invent a situation; show the starving and ravaged people and eventually blame Harper for "not doing anything." I can't imagine the Liberals taking the lead and sending in troops without the U.N., they wouldn't do it.

I don't know what the solution is to Darfur and other such atrocities, sometimes I believe personally it is completely out of our control. If the U.N. does go in, it has to be with a large show of force which would have to stay there, probably for decades while we try to educate and help the people out of poverty. As soon as the troops leave, likely they would be right back at it. Should we just turn our backs on them and let them go at it?

I'm waiting for the anti U.S. "its the U.S. fault in the first place' rhetoric to start up, cos we know every situation in the world is the fault of the U.S.

[Black Dog]

Oh right, so thats the right thing to do, just because it has happened before. Funny how your progressive respect for the less fortunate ends at your border.

Please show me where I opined that that was the right thing to do. I'm simply stating the reality of the situation.