I never had anyone on ignore before I learned this

[User]

57 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Fauci, head of the NiH, an American gov't institution, helped create the virus and now they want to sue China for the damage it caused... 🤔

First, there is no evidence Fauci created the virus. The link you provided was to funding gain of research, but there is still no direct evidence that they did in fact create this virus. You are making a leap in asserting that. 

Second, that doesn't absolve China from their lies and the coverup that led to the further spread of the virus without the world knowing. 

[Legato]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Care to quote that? Or you just making shit up again?

I would quote it but I don't want to get dizzy from the Dillon-Wagoner Graviton Polarity Generator that always use.

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Fauci, head of the NiH, an American gov't institution, helped create the virus and now they want to sue China for the damage it caused... 🤔

American states who want to sue China are NOT Fauci. Fauci RETIRED from the NIH. Duh

25 minutes ago, Legato said:

I would quote it but I don't want to get dizzy from the Dillon-Wagoner Graviton Polarity Generator that always use.

^TROLL AGAIN.

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You're beyond pretzeled right now. 

You say "The vax is working because even after the massive spike in infections and hospitalizations that followed the vax campaign, deaths only went up by 36%. But the vaxes did help limit the spread as well."

Huh? Did infections spike? 

Did infections "increase on an unprecedented scale"?

Did infections increase exponentially?

Did deaths go way up or didn't they?

Are those the kinds of results that justify vax-fascism?

And on top of the vaccines' blatant failure to protect, they also injure people who don't even need vaccines to begin with.

Listen to yourself: you're clinging to the results of clinical trials conducted - in secrecy - by Pfizer and Moderna that said "our expensive vaccines work" to explain away what looks like an apocalyptic real-world failure on a national level.

Fauci's statement in Dec 2022 would be "The results from a country of 40 million people just came in, and it's now 100% certain that the vaccines can injure or kill you but they definitely won't slow the spread of covid or prevent you from dying from it."

 

General: "Our soldiers went into battle and none of their bullets worked. They were all duds. All of our soldiers died and the region was overrun by cannibals."

Hodad: "But the bullets worked in the labs, so the battle was actually somewhat of a success."

You are such a clown. I didn't cite or "cling" to any clinical trials. I'm talking about what happened in the real world. 

Edited March 13 by Hodad

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

I did quote it. You quoted me quoting it.

Well, duh. Lol

You are a bald faced liar. You are literally changing the words directly in front of us. Fark off. 

And yes, natural viruses  exist in labs. Yes, humans in those labs can become infected with those natural viruses. And there you have a lab leak of a natural virus. 

Edited March 13 by Hodad

[impartialobserver]

On 3/12/2025 at 7:37 AM, Hodad said:

Nah, in the TV analogy it's more like when Tivo rolled out ad skipping. So you can see content you want without the pointless time wasters you don't. Why clutter your screen with things--or people--that don't have value? Helen Mirren is wise.

Either way, you are filtering out unwanted content or information. Commercials, shows, channels.. anytime you filter out unwanted items, you are essentially ignoring it. 

[Hodad]

1 minute ago, impartialobserver said:

Either way, you are filtering out unwanted content or information. Commercials, shows, channels.. anytime you filter out unwanted items, you are essentially ignoring it. 

Exactly. Sounds like a great solution to a common problem. Less garbage = more better. 

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, Hodad said:

Exactly. Sounds like a great solution to a common problem. Less garbage = more better. 

I think folks like to be outraged or agitated. They know that if they watch FOX News (as an example), they are going to be fuming. Either in support of Conservatives or not. Either way, I do not see the value in getting all worked up unnecessarily. 

[gatomontes99]

12 minutes ago, Hodad said:

You are a bald faced liar. You are literally changing the words directly in front of us. Fark off. 

I didn't change anything. I quoted him directly.

 

13 minutes ago, Hodad said:

And yes, natural viruses  exist in labs. Yes, humans in those labs can become infected with those natural viruses. And there you have a lab leak of a natural virus. 

Of course a natural virus can do what you said. However, had the virus occured in nature, there wouldn't be a single point of first contact like there is with SARS-COV-2. Had it occured naturally, it would have jumped from multiple animals to multiple people. The chances that the first and only time it mutated it then jumped to humans are absurdly low.

[Hodad]

7 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

I didn't change anything. I quoted him directly.

 

Of course a natural virus can do what you said. However, had the virus occured in nature, there wouldn't be a single point of first contact like there is with SARS-COV-2. Had it occured naturally, it would have jumped from multiple animals to multiple people. The chances that the first and only time it mutated it then jumped to humans are absurdly low.

And then you tried to change it, liar. 

What you initially quoted: April 17, 2020 Rebuffing then-President Donald Trump, Fauci downplays the possibility of a lab leak, saying the virus’ “mutations” are “totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human.”

What you just tried to change it to: "He said it was totally natural. There is no ambiguity in that statement. None."

 

And when called out you deny, deny, deny. It's shameless.

Scientists don't deal in impossibilities. They tell you what the evidence indicates. 

 

 

And you are making up your own science. Any time a virus jumps to a new species there is a first point of contact. Evolution happens at the individual level, not across a species simultaneously.

Edited March 13 by Hodad

[gatomontes99]

27 minutes ago, Hodad said:

And then you tried to change it, liar. 

What you initially quoted: April 17, 2020 Rebuffing then-President Donald Trump, Fauci downplays the possibility of a lab leak, saying the virus’ “mutations” are “totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human.”

What you just tried to change it to: "He said it was totally natural. There is no ambiguity in that statement. None."

 

And when called out you deny, deny, deny. It's shameless.

Scientists don't deal in impossibilities. They tell you what the evidence indicates. 

 

 

And you are making up your own science. Any time a virus jumps to a new species there is a first point of contact. Evolution happens at the individual level, not across a species simultaneously.

Why do you think those are functionally different? Especially when paired with the second quote I posted.

You are trying to make this about me because you've lost this argument and you are desperately grasping at air hoping a straw will magically appear. Natural virus don't have a single origin that happens to be a lab and Fauci absolutely claimed the virus was natural. There is no denying reality.

[impartialobserver]

The best thing about the COVID topic is that it is over. 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, User said:

First, there is no evidence Fauci created the virus. The link you provided was to funding gain of research, but there is still no direct evidence that they did in fact create this virus. You are making a leap in asserting that. 

The facts remain:

1. the wetmarket was NEVER the most likely source of the virus, especially from Fauci's POV
2. Fauci had to have known that the bat coronavirus that he helped make transmissible H2H in the Wuhan lab could have been the one that started infecting humans in Wuhan (and now the FBI thinks it actually was his virous) the very first second that he heard about it
3. there was never a good reason for banning people from social media for talking about the BSL4 lab
4. when the MSM found out about the Wuhan BSL4 lab, it's manipulation of bat coronaviruses, and especially Fauci's funding of GoF research on it, they never should have kept that from the public
5. at every stage the MSM has shielded Fauci from criticism. Why did the MSM in Canada never even talk about the fact that Fauci funded GoF research on a bat coronavirus in the Wuhan lab? Shouldn't that have been big news?
6. CBC aggressively pushed the wetmarket theory for years while they ignored everything to do with the Wuhan lab

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

Why do you think those are functionally different? Especially when paired with the second quote I posted.

You are trying to make this about me because you've lost this argument and you are desperately grasping at air hoping a straw will magically appear. Natural virus don't have a single origin that happens to be a lab and Fauci absolutely claimed the virus was natural. There is no denying reality.

Don't play dumb. They ARE functionally different. Saying that the scientific evidence supports a natural jump and saying that a lab leak is impossible are two VERY different statements. That's just how the goddamn English language works. 

And what farking "lost this argument" are you even talking about? Fauci said then what is still the scientific consensus today: the scientific evidence points to the explanation zoonotic origin. 

 

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

And then you tried to change it, liar. 

What you initially quoted: April 17, 2020 Rebuffing then-President Donald Trump, Fauci downplays the possibility of a lab leak, saying the virus’ “mutations” are “totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human.”

What you just tried to change it to: "He said it was totally natural. There is no ambiguity in that statement. None."

 

And when called out you deny, deny, deny. It's shameless.

Scientists don't deal in impossibilities. They tell you what the evidence indicates. 

 

 

And you are making up your own science. Any time a virus jumps to a new species there is a first point of contact. Evolution happens at the individual level, not across a species simultaneously.

^This is why I have gato on ignore. Thanks for picking of the slack cause I no longer have the patience.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

American states who want to sue China are NOT Fauci. Fauci RETIRED from the NIH. Duh

That is an incredibly stupid take on what I posted.

Follow:

1. The FBI thinks that the Wuhan lab is the source of covid
2. Fauci funded GoF research on the bat coronaviruses in the Wuhan lab, and he did that in his capacity as the head of the NiH, a department of the US gov't. In other words, the FBI thinks that the covid-19 virus was created jointly by the US and China

How can the US gov't sue China for the outbreak of a virus that the US gov't helped create?

[Hodad]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The facts remain:

1. the wetmarket was NEVER the most likely source of the virus, especially from Fauci's POV
2. Fauci had to have known that the bat coronavirus that he helped make transmissible H2H in the Wuhan lab could have been the one that started infecting humans in Wuhan (and now the FBI thinks it actually was his virous) the very first second that he heard about it
3. there was never a good reason for banning people from social media for talking about the BSL4 lab
4. when the MSM found out about the Wuhan BSL4 lab, it's manipulation of bat coronaviruses, and especially Fauci's funding of GoF research on it, they never should have kept that from the public
5. at every stage the MSM has shielded Fauci from criticism. Why did the MSM in Canada never even talk about the fact that Fauci funded GoF research on a bat coronavirus in the Wuhan lab? Shouldn't that have been big news?
6. CBC aggressively pushed the wetmarket theory for years while they ignored everything to do with the Wuhan lab

"His virus"? "That he helped make transmissable"?  You have drunk half the conspiracy fever swamp. Now directing grant money to another organization is the equivalent of cooking up a supervirus in a lab. GTFO.

[gatomontes99]

3 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Don't play dumb. They ARE functionally different. Saying that the scientific evidence supports a natural jump and saying that a lab leak is impossible are two VERY different statements. That's just how the goddamn English language works. 

And what farking "lost this argument" are you even talking about? Fauci said then what is still the scientific consensus today: the scientific evidence points to the explanation zoonotic origin. 

 

Yeah, you lost the argument. You are picking nits looking for something to stick and attacking me. You have nothing. He said it was totally natural. As I've explained, if it was totally natural then it would have had multiple originating patients. If multiple bats or dogs had had it, then they would have given it to multiple people creating multiple origin points. There was one origin point. That isn't possible with naturally occurring viruses.

[robosmith]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

That is an incredibly stupid take on what I posted.

Follow:

1. The FBI thinks that the Wuhan lab is the source of covid

Wrong. They have stated NO SUCH DEFINITIVE CONCLUSION. They said "most likely." Duh

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

2. Fauci funded GoF research on the bat coronaviruses in the Wuhan lab, and he did that in his capacity as the head of the NiH, a department of the US gov't. In other words, the FBI thinks that the covid-19 virus was created jointly by the US and China

How can the US gov't sue China for the outbreak of a virus that the US gov't helped create?

There is NO CONSENSUS that the COVID virus was created by GoF research NOR that the NIH funded GoF research.

NIH says grantee failed to report experiment in Wuhan that created a bat virus that made mice sicker

Quote

An ongoing controversy over what constitutes virology research that is too dangerous to conduct—and whether the U.S government funded studies in China that violated a policy barring funding for such risky research—has taken a new turn. While denying once again it had helped create the virus that sparked the COVID-19 pandemic, the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) revealed in a letter sent yesterday to Republicans in Congress that experiments it funded through a U.S.-based nonprofit in 2018 and 2019 at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) in China had the “unexpected result” of creating a coronavirus that was more infectious in mice.

NIH says the organization holding the parent grant, the EcoHealth Alliance, failed to immediately report this result to the agency, as required. A newly released progress report on that grant also shows that EcoHealth and WIV conducted experiments changing the virus that causes Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS), which is raising additional questions.

NIH noted in its letter that when the agency reviewed the original EcoHealth grant proposal, it determined the proposed experiments—designed to determine whether certain bat coronaviruses might infect humans—did not meet its definition of so-called gain-of-function (GOF) experiments that can make pathogens more dangerous to humans.

 

[Hodad]

1 minute ago, gatomontes99 said:

Yeah, you lost the argument. You are picking nits looking for something to stick and attacking me. You have nothing. He said it was totally natural. As I've explained, if it was totally natural then it would have had multiple originating patients. If multiple bats or dogs had had it, then they would have given it to multiple people creating multiple origin points. There was one origin point. That isn't possible with naturally occurring viruses.

Bullshit. You're just a shameless liar, who won't even quit when caught red handed. A hopeless case. 

And you know who thinks you're bad at science? Scientists. 

Johns Hopkins
 

What do we know about what happened at this animal market?

Three-quarters of the early cases had some association with the market and none had an association with the laboratory. Even though the market and the laboratory are both in Wuhan, they are in different parts of the city separated by a river.

There were also other indicators: There were two lineages—or two separate variants—of SARS-CoV-2 that were circulating in the early days of the pandemic. One of those became the pandemic [as we know it] and the other one died out. 

But [the existence of two lineages] would mean that there would have to have been two introductions from a laboratory, versus an outbreak going on among animals and then spilling over multiple times to people.

The scientists looked for two things: tracking the early cases and evolution of the two lineages. They did a geospatial analysis which tracked cases that we knew about and pinpointed exactly where in Wuhan those cases were. They were even more tied to the market than previous indicators had suggested. The scientists looked at those two strains and [their] lineages to see how they evolved, which also tied it to an animal spillover.

They got down to the exact stall of where one of the positive environmental samples had come from. There had been a picture taken a couple of months prior where a raccoon dog had been sitting in said stall. Raccoon dogs are one of the prime suspects for where the virus came from. 

[WestCanMan]

Quote

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

You are such a clown. I didn't cite or "cling" to any clinical trials. I'm talking about what happened in the real world. 

 

We posted similar stats in Canada, and it came from a running total which they started accumulating the data for on Dec 14th 2020, when there were 0 fully vaccinated Canadians and 99% of us were unvaccinated.

Look at this data and try to tell me that it's not the most skewed pile of sh1t that you've ever seen:

If the CDC tracked these stats the exact same way that our government did, then the stats you're looking at for October 2021 contained data that started accumulating in winter - aka "flu season" - when no one was vaccinated at all. AND the majority of people who were jabbed by Oct 2021 had only attained "fully vaccinated" status at the end of spring, so they were only exposed to covid as fully jabbed adults through the summer, when almost no one dies of covid. 

Hell, I don't think we even had any 20-29 yr olds vaxed by Oct. If we did it was only for a couple of weeks. 

And if you look at that Canadian chart I posted, you can see that John Elflein's disinformation is still on there. and I got that from Statista today ffs. You can get that chart right now just by googling "Covid deaths in Canada by vax status statista", and it contains what amounts to a full-on lie which I reported to them twice. they like that lie on that page. 

 

FYI almost 90% of covid deaths here were among the multi-vaxed, once we got into flu season with a substantial number of vaxed. 

Also, young people in Canada were barely even dying of covid until we started vaxing them. They literally started dying 6x as fast after we started vaxing them. 

[Hodad]

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

We posted similar stats in Canada, and it came from a running total which they started accumulating the data for on Dec 14th 2020, when there were 0 fully vaccinated Canadians and 99% of us were unvaccinated.

Look at this data and try to tell me that it's not the most skewed pile of sh1t that you've ever seen:

If the CDC tracked these stats the exact same way that our government did, then the stats you're looking at for October 2021 contained data that started accumulating in winter - aka "flu season" - when no one was vaccinated at all. AND the majority of people who were jabbed by Oct 2021 had only attained "fully vaccinated" status at the end of spring, so they were only exposed to covid as fully jabbed adults through the summer, when almost no one dies of covid. 

Hell, I don't think we even had any 20-29 yr olds vaxed by Oct. If we did it was only for a couple of weeks. 

And if you look at that Canadian chart I posted, you can see that John Elflein's disinformation is still on there. and I got that from Statista today ffs. You can get that chart right now just by googling "Covid deaths in Canada by vax status statista", and it contains what amounts to a full-on lie which I reported to them twice. they like that lie on that page. 

 

FYI almost 90% of covid deaths here were among the multi-vaxed, once we got into flu season with a substantial number of vaxed. 

Also, young people in Canada were barely even dying of covid until we started vaxing them. They literally started dying 6x as fast after we started vaxing them. 

Read the link--or any other discussion of efficacy. The disparity month-over-month is dramatic. And this has been posted for you dozens of times at this point. 

 

This is what we watched play out around the world. Over and over again. The vaccines dramatically reduced hospitalization and death (independent metrics) of those who contracted COVID. In the exact same way that a seat belt reduces the probability of serious injury or death in the event of a car accident. 

The vaccines were massively successful, saving over a million lives. And you continually shit on them because you only want to look at raw numbers rather than rates. 🙄

Edited March 13 by Hodad

[WestCanMan]

35 minutes ago, Hodad said:

"His virus"? "That he helped make transmissable"?  You have drunk half the conspiracy fever swamp. Now directing grant money to another organization is the equivalent of cooking up a supervirus in a lab. GTFO.

Are you:

1. denying that Fauci funded research on the bat coronavirus in the Wuhan lab, which made it transmissible among humans, or
2. are you admitting that you didn't even know that he did that after all this time? 

[gatomontes99]

24 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Bullshit. You're just a shameless liar, who won't even quit when caught red handed. A hopeless case. 

And you know who thinks you're bad at science? Scientists. 

Johns Hopkins
 

What do we know about what happened at this animal market?

Three-quarters of the early cases had some association with the market and none had an association with the laboratory. Even though the market and the laboratory are both in Wuhan, they are in different parts of the city separated by a river.

There were also other indicators: There were two lineages—or two separate variants—of SARS-CoV-2 that were circulating in the early days of the pandemic. One of those became the pandemic [as we know it] and the other one died out. 

But [the existence of two lineages] would mean that there would have to have been two introductions from a laboratory, versus an outbreak going on among animals and then spilling over multiple times to people.

The scientists looked for two things: tracking the early cases and evolution of the two lineages. They did a geospatial analysis which tracked cases that we knew about and pinpointed exactly where in Wuhan those cases were. They were even more tied to the market than previous indicators had suggested. The scientists looked at those two strains and [their] lineages to see how they evolved, which also tied it to an animal spillover.

They got down to the exact stall of where one of the positive environmental samples had come from. There had been a picture taken a couple of months prior where a raccoon dog had been sitting in said stall. Raccoon dogs are one of the prime suspects for where the virus came from. 

Bullshit. L was the only strain in 2019.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200803105246.htm

Currently, there are six strains of coronavirus. The original one is the L strain, that appeared in Wuhan in December 2019.

Its first mutation -- the S strain -- appeared at the beginning of 2020, while, since mid-January 2020, we have had strains V and G. To date strain G is the most widespread: it mutated into strains GR and GH at the end of February 2020.

‐------------------

It originated in the wet market because a worker contracted it and gave it to everyone at one end of the wet market. They have that pinned down to a specific booth.

I'm not lying. I just know more than you.

[Hodad]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Are you:

1. denying that Fauci funded research on the bat coronavirus in the Wuhan lab, which made it transmissible among humans, or
2. are you admitting that you didn't even know that he did that after all this time? 

His organization sent grant funding to another VERY well respected research organization. YOU have spun that to funding the specific creation of a specific virus with specific capabilities. 

I know "what he did" just fine. It's your fever swamp version of events I reject.