Lowering the flag for slain soldiers?

[Wilber]

Just came back from celebrating my fathers birthday, he turned 89 today. He's a WWII RCAF vet who served overseas for four years, two in England and two more in India and Burma attached to the RAF. I asked him what he though of the flag flap. I wondered what he might say because we had some spirited discussions leading up to the election and he was no Harper fan.

As far as he is concerned Harper got it right on this one. Remembrance Day is for the vets and you don't differentiate between those who fell by which war they happened to be in. He feels somewhat insulted by the politicking that is surrounding this.

Think about it. If lowering the flag for every death was policy during the World Wars, our flags would have been at half mast for years at a time.

[KrustyKidd]

Think about it. If lowering the flag for every death was policy during the World Wars, our flags would have been at half mast for years at a time.

Well, I take this stuff pretty seriously and the one outside my house has been going up and down like an Chinese elevator for the past few days. Now, thanks to your dad, it's up again.

"Sparky, fix the petard! Prepare to hoist!"

[geoffrey]

Think about it. If lowering the flag for every death was policy during the World Wars, our flags would have been at half mast for years at a time.

Well, I take this stuff pretty seriously and the one outside my house has been going up and down like an Chinese elevator for the past few days. Now, thanks to your dad, it's up again.

"Sparky, fix the petard! Prepare to hoist!"

Nothing wrong with having your flag at half mast for the troops. Military base flags for those that died are to be lowered.

It's just specifically the peace tower flag. The flag is supposed to stand tall in times of war to reflect Canada's commitment to peace. Only on Nov. 11 do we lower it to remember the cost of our peace and freedom. Or with the death of a peace officer, because they don't have a day specifically.

Any other flag is free to be lowered whenever the owner sees fit.

This is why the issue is so politicized. No one has a freaking idea whats happening.

[KrustyKidd]

Good post Geoffry.

[Wilber]

Think about it. If lowering the flag for every death was policy during the World Wars, our flags would have been at half mast for years at a time.

Well, I take this stuff pretty seriously and the one outside my house has been going up and down like an Chinese elevator for the past few days. Now, thanks to your dad, it's up again.

"Sparky, fix the petard! Prepare to hoist!"

I've been pretty quiet on this thread because I think the only opinions that count are the ones from people who have walked the walk. Just passing one along.

[Black Dog]

As I said before, I don't give a rat's patootie about the flag's position, so I don't agree with this, but I must say, Mercer's take is pretty funny.

In case you are wondering what the official protocol is for this type of thing I have cut and pasted the relevant section from the department of Heritage website.

…the flag on the Peace Tower of the Parliament Building at Ottawa is flown at half-mast:

on the death of a Lieutenant Governor;

on the death of a Canadian Privy Councillor, a Senator, or a Member of the House of Commons;

on the death of a person whom it is desired to honour.

This is a pretty straightforward list.

Everyone knows what Lieutenant Governors are: they are an elite group of politically connected senior citizens who represent the Queen in each of the provinces. These brave men and women are required to attend cocktail receptions on a daily basis for their country. When their livers explode, the flag is lowered as a sign of respect.

For many, it might come as a shock to hear that the flag is lowered “on the death of a Canadian Privy Councilor” mostly because, let’s face it, nobody really knows what that means. The Canadian Privy Council is actually a ceremonial “council of advisors” to the Queen. I know it sounds exhausting, but rest assured there is no official duty that goes along with the distinction. In fact, you are required to do nothing. Every former Canadian premier is a member and the bottom line is the Queen doesn’t have Bob Rae on speed dial. Membership is also open to anyone who is a good friend of the Prime Minister. For example a previous Conservative government made Conrad Black a Member of the Privy Council. It is somehow fitting that if Conrad goes down in a nasty prison brawl over a carton of cigarettes, the flag over the Peace Tower will fly at half mast. A nation will mourn the passing of a guy who voluntarily gave up his Canadian citizenship so he could play dress-up party in England.

Further down the list we come to Senator. When a member of the Senate finally drops, the flag is not far behind. This has led to some confusion in the past when the flag has been lowered to half mast and it turns out the senator in question was simply resting his eyes. As a result there is now a rigorous process to ensure the senator is actually deceased. Once actual death is established the flag is immediately lowered. I think we can all agree on this one. When I think of the sacrifices many of these senators have made for their country I get downright weepy.

Take Senator Michael Fortier for example.

The first thing Stephen Harper did when he took office was to appoint his Quebec campaign manager to the Senate. Harper’s hand was barely off the Bible at his swearing in ceremony before his buddy Fortier was on the teat and we were on the hook for his salary.

And so if Senator Fortier chokes on a chicken bone in the Parliamentary dining room this evening the flag will be lowered to half mast. I agree with this one. It would only be appropriate that the nation be given the opportunity to honour Fortier for his few weeks of service to our country doing whatever it is he does. Of course, one hopes that the good senator avoids the chicken bones and lives well past one hundred.

Heh.

[uOttawaMan]

People, there is a thing called tradition and ceremony. The military has their traditions and ceremony and those who were one of them will always be one of them. As they come off the aircraft, before they become the families, they are given a goodbye. If you want to take part in that ceremoney, then join the frickin army and do it. If you want to watch play ceremony then watch a movie or the changing of the guards, if you want real stuff then become one of them and then, when they do their real ceremony, you will get to have first hand sight of what is going on.

If you want stats on how many and how they died, read the paper as the military reports the deaths. And, if the families wish to have tv crews filming and giving play by plays, they can request them at the gravesite or, charge tickets if they want. the main point is, this is a military show, not a civillian and, if Harper wished it to be wide open to the tv of the country, the military would more than liekly tell him where to shove it.

You know what really has my goat? All the assholes demanding full coverage who won't even watch it when death #227 is carried to the hearse. A tired cameraman with a reporter doing the old coverage between smokes with the footage not even going on tv. It's the flash, the zing, the pomp or, the politics. In any case, the military will never send them through a meat grinder but the media will as it becomes blasee' Our heros are too good for that and your need to see the military do a sacred ceremony is extremely secondary.

You want figures, you got 'em. You want to see the cermony? Rent Gardens of Stone. You want dead bodies? Go to the internet and, if you want to honor these guys, write a letter and then saying you think the Taliban should be kiled and they are doing a great job and to keep it up, if you own a busineess, give them free stuff till they cant take free no more but don't pull this shit. Honor them on November 11 like you should honor my fahter, his father and me and, all the guys who ever placed themselves on the wrong side of a gun. Particularily those that died. That's after you let the military and the family have whatever ceremony they wish - public or private.

Hey, you want to honor these guys, push for better helecopters, more recruit to get them all more home time. More money to attract more Arab speaking soldiers, more bribe money to find the bad guys etc. This flag crap is hubris. To all those that 'support the troops' when was the last time you called up the local base and said "hey, any wife of a soldier that needs her lawn mower tuned can call me" or fixed her car for free? Never. This is all posturing.

Wanna show support, send money and cap the cake hole. They will appreciate it more. Save the tears for the 11th.

Quoted for absolute truth.

This is one time where I really don't care what everyone else thinks and how they are freely expressing themselves. What matters to me is what the soliders want and think.

[Wilber]

In years past our war dead were buried where they fell. Except for Rememberance Day, mourning was the sole property of relatives and comrades. Relatively recently we have started bringing them home and everyone seems to think they have some sort of God given right to be part of the action, regardless of the feelings of those directly involved.