Taiwanese independence

[theloniusfleabag]

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/nepal

KATMANDU, Nepal - Nepalese police opened fire Thursday on thousands of pro-democracy protesters marching toward the capital in defiance of a government-imposed curfew, killing at least three and wounding dozens, witnesses and hospital officials said. Doctors at Model hospital in Katmandu said three people were killed more than 40 were in critical condition,

If the USA is claiming to be 'championing freedom and democracy', why do they not stand up for countries that actually want it and are fighting for it?

[Black Dog]

If the USA is claiming to be 'championing freedom and democracy', why do they not stand up for countries that actually want it and are fighting for it?

Any oil in Nepal?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Black Dog,

Any oil in Nepal?

Some, but I believe it is mostly for cooking and hair.

That aside, should I take the abject lack of rebuttal to the hypocrisy of US foreign policy as a concession (on the collective 'yay'-sayer's part) that they are not in the Middle East on humanitarian grounds?

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

You wrote- " If the USA is claiming to be 'championg freedom and democracy', why do they not stand up for countries that actually want it and are fighting for it."

Maybe that country is just to problamatic and a country that lies between China and India with disputes with India.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/apr/07spec2.htm

[August1991]

If the USA is claiming to be 'championing freedom and democracy', why do they not stand up for countries that actually want it and are fighting for it?

The US is not the world's policeman. There are many countries around the world where the government is no different from a motorcycle gang or the mafia. Most people living in such countries try to avoid trouble.

The US government will do nothing about such cases.

The US military is engaged in Afghanistan because the Taliban regime offered direct support to Al-Qaeda, and this was deemed a threat to the US. Iraq was similar because the risk of WMD was considered too high.

Somalia might be an exception, the US government learned a lesson there.

IOW, the US would only intervene in Nepal if it felt that US interests were sufficiently affected. I can't imagine any scenario where that would happen.

Any oil in Nepal?

There's lots of oil in Nigeria and Alberta. By your logic, and McQuaig's, the Pentagon must be preparing invasion plans at this very moment.

[Black Dog]

There's lots of oil in Nigeria and Alberta. By your logic, and McQuaig's, the Pentagon must be preparing invasion plans at this very moment.

Uh. No. But then, you've never understod the oil argument anyway.

[Black Dog]

This kinda falls under the general "supporrting freedom" theme so....

American could face federal charges for criticizing Chinese president

Earlier today, we made the point that if you consider 1989's so-called "Tank Man" of Tiananmen Square to be a hero for standing up to China's totalitarian regime -- and most Americans, regardless of political persuasion, do -- then surely you would think the same thing about 47-year-old Wenyi Wang.

Wang is the courageous woman who rose up on the South Lawn of the White House this morning to confront the leader of that brutally repressive regime, President Hu Jintao, as well as America's President George W, Bush, who was busy playing footsie with Hu. "Stop the killing and the torture!," shouted Wang, a Manhattan physician who writes for a newspaper supporting the spiritual group Falun Gong, banned in China.

...

Last night, officials with the Secret Service, which eventually dragged Wang away and arrested her -- literally seconds after Bush called on China to permit more free speech -- said they are seriously considering charging Wang with an obscure federal offense, intimidating a foreign official.

[Michael Hardner]

That's a highly slanted article...

She was arrested "mere seconds" after she started yelling... timed at two minutes and fifteen seconds by this article...

Chinese Protester a Plant ?

It does seem like a long time for someone to be allowed to make a ruckus.

The Falun Gong vs China argument is a very tough one to get to the bottom of as well. They have made exagerrated claims but China does oppress people for not thinking the right way.

[Riverwind]

Last night, officials with the Secret Service, which eventually dragged Wang away and arrested her -- literally seconds after Bush called on China to permit more free speech -- said they are seriously considering charging Wang with an obscure federal offense, intimidating a foreign official.

The right to free speech does not give one a right to walk into a session of parliament with a bull horn. An area secured for an official event if a lot like the visitors gallery in the house of commons - people who interfere with the proceedings should expect to be kicked out. That said, pressing charges against this woman would be a serious violation of her right to free speech and I hope it is nothing more than idle speculation in the media.

[Black Dog]

That's a highly slanted article...

She was arrested "mere seconds" after she started yelling... timed at two minutes and fifteen seconds by this article...

The article didn't say she was arreested mere seconds after starting to yell, but "mere seconds...after Bush called on China to permit more free speech".

[Michael Hardner]

Hmmm...

I reread the article and you're right. I also read that she has already been charged. That's too much.

The protester is a Falun Gong practitioner.

Is Falun Gong turning into the Scientology of the East ? Sounds like a thread topic.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Mr. Hardner,

Any sort of religious movement is not allowed in China. Falun Dafa or Gong isn't too widelly understood in 'the west', at least I don't know too many people who could argue how close it was to Scientology, for example. Just another kooky religion, most would say.

from the CIA world Factbook,

China:

Religions:

Daoist (Taoist), Buddhist, Christian 3%-4%, Muslim 1%-2%

note: officially atheist (2002 est.)

[Michael Hardner]

Any sort of religious movement is not allowed in China. Falun Dafa or Gong isn't too widelly understood in 'the west', at least I don't know too many people who could argue how close it was to Scientology, for example.

The official line is that they preach bad health practices, but of course it's hard to discern the truth. The US State Department has discounted their claims of forced organ donation camps.

Here's an interesting discussion of FG:

Blog

The consensus seems to be that they're daffy but should be allowed to exist.

[Riverwind]

Here's an interesting discussion of FG:

That discussion looks like it was posted by the Chinese gov't information ministry. A better link is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

[August1991]

There's lots of oil in Nigeria and Alberta. By your logic, and McQuaig's, the Pentagon must be preparing invasion plans at this very moment.

Uh. No. But then, you've never understod the oil argument anyway.

At the risk of thoroughly hijacking this thread, please explain the "oil argument" or provide a link where I might "understand it".

----

In an effort to unhijack this thread, let me say that the Chinese authorities will stop at nothing to ensure their political authority while at the same time allowing complete freedom to trade at will.

The Chinese government, like Singapore's, is Modern Confucious. It means a practical enforcement of property rights and propitious conditions for development of contract law. This may be a model for economic development.

[Riverwind]

The Chinese government, like Singapore's, is Modern Confucious. It means a practical enforcement of property rights and propitious conditions for development of contract law. This may be a model for economic development.

Not likely. Western style democratic gov't may not be perfect but it does provide a mechanism for peacefully replacing gov't that become more obsessed with keeping power than looking after the interests of the country as a whole. That is what is going on in China now.

It is worth looking at South Korea and Taiwan. They used to have authoritarian regimes that paid lip service to democracy - they now have multiparty democracies. They are also the weathiest countries in the region (excluding Japan). I think one is connected to the other. I think it is a big mistake to become a apologist for the Chinese dictators by accepting the argument that a one party tolitarian regime is good for the Chinese in the long run.