Gaétan Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 It's unbelievable that Trump thinks that God saved his life to make Americans a richer people when Jesus teaches that it's impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. A more righteous people is more in line with what Jesus taught. 1 Quote
User Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 4 hours ago, Gaétan said: It's unbelievable that Trump thinks that God saved his life to make Americans a richer people when Jesus teaches that it's impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. A more righteous people is more in line with what Jesus taught. It helps if you accurately quote scripture. Jesus did not say it was impossible. He said it was difficult. He also answered when asked who could be saved, saying no one except through God. Quote
Gaétan Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) 44 minutes ago, User said: It helps if you accurately quote scripture. Jesus did not say it was impossible. He said it was difficult. He also answered when asked who could be saved, saying no one except through God. Mt 19.24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” It is impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. A rich cannot enter the kingdom of God becasuse if he is rich it is because he didn't share with poor, he didn't love his neighbour as himself, he is unjust. For Jesus make you great doesn't mean make you rich but make you just. Edited February 3 by Gaétan Quote
User Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 3 minutes ago, Gaétan said: Mt 19.24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” It is impossible for for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. A rich cannot enter the kingdom of God becasuse if he is rich it is because he didn't share with poor, he didn't love his neighbour as himself, he is unjust. For Jesus make you great doesn't mean make you rich but make you just. Impossible are the terms you are using. Not what Jesus said. Jesus said hard and he also said “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Quote
Gaétan Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 1 minute ago, User said: Impossible are the terms you are using. Not what Jesus said. Jesus said hard and he also said “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” You find it possible for camel to go through the eye of a neddle? Quote
User Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 3 minutes ago, Gaétan said: You find it possible for camel to go through the eye of a neddle? That is called a metaphor. With God, all things are possible. The point, and the words Jesus used, were that it would be hard. Not impossible. Quote
Gaétan Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 Just now, User said: That is called a metaphor. With God, all things are possible. The point, and the words Jesus used, were that it would be hard. Not impossible. For a rich it is possible to enter the kingdom of heaven if he does that: Mt 19.21, sell your possessions and give to the poor Then after that he will be no more rich Quote
blackbird Posted February 6 Report Posted February 6 (edited) On 2/3/2025 at 6:24 AM, Gaétan said: A more righteous people is more in line with what Jesus taught. Do you think Roman Catholics who faithfully believe all their church's teachings, and faithfully go to confession, and the mass, and receive the sacraments, will go to heaven? Or do people go to purgatory when they die? Edited February 6 by blackbird Quote
Gaétan Posted February 6 Author Report Posted February 6 16 hours ago, blackbird said: Do you think Roman Catholics who faithfully believe all their church's teachings, and faithfully go to confession, and the mass, and receive the sacraments, will go to heaven? Or do people go to purgatory when they die? Anyone goes to the Kingdom of God if he loves his neighbour as himself, so if he behaves justly, Luke 10.26, or failing that, if repents of his sins, regardless of his religion according to Christ. Luke 15. 3-7, Luke 15.8-10, Luke 15.32, but you must do that before the wedding, before you die, after that it is too late: Mt 25. 1-13 Quote
blackbird Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 On 2/6/2025 at 12:41 PM, Gaétan said: Anyone goes to the Kingdom of God if he loves his neighbour as himself, so if he behaves justly, Luke 10.26, or failing that, if repents of his sins, regardless of his religion according to Christ. Luke 15. 3-7, Luke 15.8-10, Luke 15.32, but you must do that before the wedding, before you die, after that it is too late: Mt 25. 1-13 Doesn't sound like you know the gospel. No protestant churches teach what you are saying. quote How Can I Be Saved? Can I be saved? - All sinners can be saved regardless of how sinful they are. This is because the blood of Jesus Christ is able to wash away all sins, not matter how heinous the sins are in the eyes of God and man. Salvation is of God. God will save us when we believe. It is like a man caught in a fast flowing river toward a huge waterfall that is certain death; he is thrown a life-line and he grabs it and is saved. God is throwing you a life-line in Christ, i.e. when you hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. All you need to do is to believe like the man who reaches out his hand to grab that life-line. The act of grabbing is your faith. It is not your faith that saves you but the life-line. The gospel of Jesus Christ tells us – All sinners are born in sin and have committed innumerable sins against God such as the worship of idols, lying, lusting, cheating, and hating without a just cause. Therefore all sinners will die in sin. After death there will be punishment by God. As sinners in this life, the holy God will cast every sinner to hell where there is gnashing of teeth. God does not desire to cast anyone to hell. Because of God’s love for sinners, He sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to suffer and die for all sinners, including you dear reader. God sent Jesus Christ to this earth to be born of flesh and blood through the virgin Mary, to be born without sin. He lived a perfect life according to all of God's laws. He suffered the pain of persecution for our sins. Then He died by crucifixion on the cross of Calvary as a punishment for our sins. God accepted the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ who lived and died for us as full payment for all our sins by raising Him from the dead. If you believe that Jesus Christ died for you, you will be saved. Jesus is the Life-Line! Romans 10:9-11 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” Pray this prayer from your heart – O God I have sinned against you grievously. I know in my heart that I deserve to be sent to hell if I die in my sins. I beg Thee O God for mercy. I confess my sins before Thee. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour who died on Calvary’s cross for my sins, with all my heart. Please forgive me O God for Jesus’ sake. I thank Thee O God that Thou raised Jesus Christ from the dead for my justification so that I can be saved from my sins and stand before Thy holy presence accepted and righteous. I thank Thee O God for saving me, in Jesus’ name I pray with all my heart. Amen. What do I do next? – Enrol in the Basic Bible Knowledge course where you will learn more about Jesus Christ, God, and how you may grow in your new found faith as a Christian. Click HERE to send an email to express your interest to join the course. unquote How Can I Be Saved? Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 (edited) A crucial measure of prosperity is median income which isn’t much affected by a tiny few making billions. There’s nothing wrong with raising that in nearly every country. Edited February 11 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
Gaétan Posted February 11 Author Report Posted February 11 On 2/8/2025 at 11:08 PM, blackbird said: Doesn't sound like you know the gospel. No protestant churches teach what you are saying. quote How Can I Be Saved? Can I be saved? - All sinners can be saved regardless of how sinful they are. This is because the blood of Jesus Christ is able to wash away all sins, not matter how heinous the sins are in the eyes of God and man. Salvation is of God. God will save us when we believe. It is like a man caught in a fast flowing river toward a huge waterfall that is certain death; he is thrown a life-line and he grabs it and is saved. God is throwing you a life-line in Christ, i.e. when you hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. All you need to do is to believe like the man who reaches out his hand to grab that life-line. The act of grabbing is your faith. It is not your faith that saves you but the life-line. The gospel of Jesus Christ tells us – All sinners are born in sin and have committed innumerable sins against God such as the worship of idols, lying, lusting, cheating, and hating without a just cause. Therefore all sinners will die in sin. After death there will be punishment by God. As sinners in this life, the holy God will cast every sinner to hell where there is gnashing of teeth. God does not desire to cast anyone to hell. Because of God’s love for sinners, He sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to suffer and die for all sinners, including you dear reader. God sent Jesus Christ to this earth to be born of flesh and blood through the virgin Mary, to be born without sin. He lived a perfect life according to all of God's laws. He suffered the pain of persecution for our sins. Then He died by crucifixion on the cross of Calvary as a punishment for our sins. God accepted the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ who lived and died for us as full payment for all our sins by raising Him from the dead. If you believe that Jesus Christ died for you, you will be saved. Jesus is the Life-Line! Romans 10:9-11 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” Pray this prayer from your heart – O God I have sinned against you grievously. I know in my heart that I deserve to be sent to hell if I die in my sins. I beg Thee O God for mercy. I confess my sins before Thee. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour who died on Calvary’s cross for my sins, with all my heart. Please forgive me O God for Jesus’ sake. I thank Thee O God that Thou raised Jesus Christ from the dead for my justification so that I can be saved from my sins and stand before Thy holy presence accepted and righteous. I thank Thee O God for saving me, in Jesus’ name I pray with all my heart. Amen. What do I do next? – Enrol in the Basic Bible Knowledge course where you will learn more about Jesus Christ, God, and how you may grow in your new found faith as a Christian. Click HERE to send an email to express your interest to join the course. unquote How Can I Be Saved? You shouldn't believe just anyone but Jesus Christ and he doesn't confirm what you wrote, reread Matthew 7 Quote
blackbird Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gaétan said: You shouldn't believe just anyone but Jesus Christ and he doesn't confirm what you wrote, reread Matthew 7 What you are saying is contrary to the whole Bible. You are misinterpreting it. Your interpretation contradicts countless verses through the whole Bible. Obviously, an interpretation on salvation must agree with the rest of the Bible. Here is the common Protestant and Biblical understanding of salvation: "V. Salvation Conditioned upon one Thing Alone In the New Testament in about one hundred and fifteen passages, the salvation of a sinner is declared to depend only upon believing, and in about thirty-five passages to depend on faith, which is a synonym of believing. The Scriptures everywhere harmonize with this overwhelming body of truth. God alone can save a soul and God can save only through the sacrifice of His Son. Man can sustain no other relation to salvation than to believe God's message to the extent of turning from self-works to depend only on the work of God through Christ. Believing is the opposite of doing anything; it is trusting another instead. Therefore, the Scriptures are violated and the whole doctrine of grace confused when salvation is made to depend on anything other than believing. The divine message is not "believe and pray," "believe and confess sin," "believe and confess Christ," "believe and be baptized," "believe and repent," or "believe and make restitution." These six added subjects are mentioned in the Scriptures and there they have their full intended meaning; but if they were as essential to salvation as believing they would never be omitted from any passage wherein the way to be saved is stated (note John 1:12; 3:16, 36; 5:24; 6:29; 20:31; Acts 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22; 4:5, 24; 5:1; 10:4; Galatians 3:22). Salvation is only through Christ, and men are therefore saved when they receive Him as their Saviour." from Major Bible Themes by Lewis Sperry Chafer Themes.pdf If you value your soul and where you are heading, I would suggest you go to the website I gave and study this chapter in this book very carefully and examine the Bible verses it refers to. You can also study other chapters as you wish. The book is specifically focused on doctrine such as the doctrine of salvation which is very important to know. Knowing doctrine in the Bible will protect one from false teaching. The world is full of false teaching. Nobody can work their way to heaven. Working one's way to heaven is how all false religions work. It is condemned in Romans and Galatians. Salvation is by faith alone. That is clear in over a hundred verses in the Bible. Edited February 11 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 2 hours ago, Gaétan said: You shouldn't believe just anyone but Jesus Christ and he doesn't confirm what you wrote, reread Matthew 7 The Apostle Paul was ordained as an Apostle by Jesus Christ to go out into the world to preach the gospel of salvation by faith. Study Romans and Galatians. This is what the Apostle Paul said: " 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:20-28 KJV Quote
Gaétan Posted February 11 Author Report Posted February 11 31 minutes ago, blackbird said: Salvation is by faith alone. That is clear in over a hundred verses in the Bible. You say that being saved is dictated by 100 verses in the bible and that you are saved by faith, but these verses were not dictated by Jesus Christ but say the opposite. Read this one: I Never Knew You Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' Quote
blackbird Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Gaétan said: Read this one: I Never Knew You Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' That verse is not saying salvation is by works. It is saying that once one becomes a Christian by faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice, then he should show he is a believer by doing the will of the Father. A genuinely saved person will do the will of the Father. But one must become a Christian at some point in his life. How is that done? By accepting and believing in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. At that point the person is saved. He is saved by the death and sacrifice of Jesus Christ for his sins. He is saved by the shed blood of Christ. Then he must learn to go good and serve the Lord in his life. He is already saved by Christ from that point on. Nobody can work their way into heaven. One is saved at a moment in time by God's grace through faith. Read Romans. Edited February 11 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 28 minutes ago, Gaétan said: You say that being saved is dictated by 100 verses in the bible and that you are saved by faith, but these verses were not dictated by Jesus Christ but say the opposite. Do you understand this: "The Scriptures distinguish four aspects of righteousness: I. God is Righteous (Romans 3:25-26) This attribute of God is unchanging and unchangeable. He is infinitely righteous in His own Being and infinitely righteous in all His ways. 1. He is Righteous in His Being It is impossible for Him to deviate from His righteousness by so much as the "shadow of turning" (James 1:17). He cannot look on sin with the least degree of allowance. Therefore, since all men are sinners both by nature and by practise, the divine judgment has come upon all men unto condemnation. The acceptance of this truth is vital to any right understanding of the Gospel of divine grace. 2. He is Righteous in His Ways It must also be recognized that God is incapable of slighting sin, or merely forgiving sin in leniency. The triumph of the Gospel is not in the belittling of sin on the part of God; it is rather in the fact that all those judgments which infinite righteousness must of necessity impose upon the sinner have been borne in substitution by God's provided Lamb, and that this is a plan of God's own devising which according to His own standards of righteousness is sufficient for all who believe. By this plan God can satisfy His love in saving the sinner without infringing upon His own unchangeable righteousness; and the sinner, utterly hopeless in himself, can pass out from all condemnation (John 3:18; 5:24; Romans 8:1; 1 Corinthians 11:32). It is not unusual for men to conceive of God as a righteous Being; but they often fail to recognize the fact that, when He undertakes to save the sinful, the righteousness of God is not and cannot be diminished. II. The Self-Righteousness of Man (Romans 10:3) In complete accord with the revelation that God is supremely righteous, there is the corresponding revelation that, in the sight of God, the righteousness of man is as "filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6). Though the sinful estate of man is constantly declared throughout the Scriptures, there is no description more complete and final than is found in Romans 3:9-18, and it should be noted that this, as all other estimates of sin which are recorded in the Bible, is a description of sin as God sees it. Men have erected legitimate standards for the family, for society, and for the state; but these are no part of the basis upon which man must stand and by which he must be judged before God. In their relation to God, men are not wise when thus comparing themselves with themselves (2 Corinthians 10:12); for not merely those who are condemned by society are lost, but those who are condemned by the unalterable righteousness of God (Romans 3:23). There is therefore no hope for any individual outside the provisions of God's grace; for none can enter Heaven's glory who are not as acceptable to God as Christ. For this need God has made abundant provision. III. The Imputed Righteousness of God (Romans 3:22) The Bible doctrine of Imputation transcends all other themes concerning the Christian, and because it has no comparisons in things of this world, it is not easily comprehended." -Major Bible Themes. Quote
Black Dog Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 On 2/5/2025 at 8:22 PM, blackbird said: Do you think Roman Catholics who faithfully believe all their church's teachings, and faithfully go to confession, and the mass, and receive the sacraments, will go to heaven? Or do people go to purgatory when they die? Pretty much everyone goes to purgatory when they die, it's how they get purified before entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Not Prods though; it's straight to the flames for them! Quote
A Freeman Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 On 2/3/2025 at 7:22 PM, User said: It helps if you accurately quote scripture. Jesus did not say it was impossible. He said it was difficult. He also answered when asked who could be saved, saying no one except through God. So you actually believe that a camel can somehow go through the eye of a needle? Ridiculous! Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into The Kingdom of God. No one can serve two masters. Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and materialism. Quote
User Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 1 minute ago, A Freeman said: So you actually believe that a camel can somehow go through the eye of a needle? Ridiculous! No, it is a metaphor. What I believe is what was actually said is that it is difficult, not impossible, as was asserted. 2 minutes ago, A Freeman said: No one can serve two masters. True, that is if you view your wealth and being rich as serving two masters. The entire concept of wealth and being rich is vastly different in the Capitalist Democracy of today than during those times as well. The concepts for how people own companies and their wealth is derived through the valuation of that company making them rich is hardly the same kind of wealth we are talking about from someone who lazily sits around commanding servants to do his bidding. Quote
A Freeman Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 James 5:1-8 5:1 Go to now, [ye] rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that SHALL come upon [you]. 5:2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness AGAINST you, and shall eat your flesh (cancer etc.) as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the Last Days. 5:4 Behold, the hire (pay) of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped [and not been justly paid] are entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth/Hosts. 5:5 Ye [rich] have lived in pleasure on the Earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. 5:6 Ye [rich] have condemned [and] murdered the just; [and] he [the poor labourer] doth not resist you. 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. It should be self-evident that "thou shalt love thy neighbour" and "thou shalt not steal" cannot possibly equate to the consolidation of wealth in the hands of a select few. The richest 1% of the country own half of the country's net worth, while everyone else lives off of the crumbs that fall from their table. Quote
User Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 16 minutes ago, A Freeman said: It should be self-evident that "thou shalt love thy neighbour" and "thou shalt not steal" cannot possibly equate to the consolidation of wealth in the hands of a select few. Except, the concepts of wealth today doesn't come through theft, it comes through creating things of value people want / need to improve their lives and they voluntarily purchase. This doesn't preclude loving your neighbors and is also a form of love to create things to improve your neighbors lives. Wealth is not static either, it is dynamic. It is not consolidated. 18 minutes ago, A Freeman said: The richest 1% of the country own half of the country's net worth, while everyone else lives off of the crumbs that fall from their table. America has one of the highest standards of living in the world and the standard of living in America today for even the poorest among us is better than even rich people enjoyed throughout much of history. We are not living off of crumbs. Quote
A Freeman Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 2 minutes ago, User said: No, it is a metaphor. What I believe is what was actually said is that it is difficult, not impossible, as was asserted. Being a metaphor doesn't mean that it's possible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. It very obviously isn't possible, so telling everyone it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to gain entrance to the Kingdom of God is merely saying that it's not possible in a colorful way. And anyone who actually reads the preceding verses in context should understand exactly why. Matthew 19:16-24 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have Eternal Life? 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but One, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments. 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness (tell lies), 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect (as Christ COMMANDED - Matt. 5:48), go [and] sell that thou hast, and put it in the purse (kitty), and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me. 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into The Kingdom of heaven. 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into The Kingdom of God. If someone isn't willing to give up their worldly riches to follow Christ's Example, then they have no hope of gaining entrance to the Kingdom of God, according to Christ. 2 minutes ago, User said: True, that is if you view your wealth and being rich as serving two masters. The entire concept of wealth and being rich is vastly different in the Capitalist Democracy of today than during those times as well. The above statement is nonsensical. You cannot serve God and hoard material wealth. Anyone who has studied The Law (God's Law - in the first five books of the Bible) should immediately recognize that it contains the perfect economic system which not only ELIMINATES poverty (Deut. 15:4) through short-term and long-term debt relief, but it keeps anyone from becoming filthy rich at everyone else's expense, including the temporary worldly rulers (Deut. 17:14-20). And no, there's nothing different about being rich today in a so-called capitalist society than there was being rich at any other time in human history. The rich get rich off of the backs of the poor through made-up rules (legislation) that "legalize" theft (e.g. taxes) and murder (e.g. war). Quote
A Freeman Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 (edited) 14 minutes ago, User said: Except, the concepts of wealth today doesn't come through theft, it comes through creating things of value people want / need to improve their lives and they voluntarily purchase. This doesn't preclude loving your neighbors and is also a form of love to create things to improve your neighbors lives. Wealth is not static either, it is dynamic. It is not consolidated. America has one of the highest standards of living in the world and the standard of living in America today for even the poorest among us is better than even rich people enjoyed throughout much of history. We are not living off of crumbs. You're deluding yourself if you believe that becoming filthy rich doesn't involve theft or that obscene wealth isn't consolidated. The British monarch owns 1/6th of the planetary landmass valued in the tens of trillions of $, £, €, etc., on top of the rest of their holdings in businesses. If that wealth was redistributed among the people, the entire population would become millionaires overnight. You seem to have no concept of how over half the country lives from paycheck to paycheck in the land of the fee and the home of the slave. https://veteranstoday.com/2019/01/02/land-of-the-license-fee-and-home-of-the-slave/ Edited February 11 by A Freeman error Quote
User Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 1 minute ago, A Freeman said: If someone isn't willing to give up their worldly riches to follow Christ's Example, then they have no hope of gaining entrance to the Kingdom of God, according to Christ. Except, that is not what he said. Hell, you don't even believe this unless you are sitting in a public library somewhere making these arguments from a public computer on public internet... But then again, where would that internet or computer come from that you are using if it were not for people creating them? Where would the money come from for those things if not for the people paying taxes on all their worldly riches... 3 minutes ago, A Freeman said: The above statement is nonsensical. You cannot serve God and hoard material wealth. You keep using language very deceitfully. Notice how you changed it to "hoard" wealth? 4 minutes ago, A Freeman said: should immediately recognize that it contains the perfect economic system which not only ELIMINATES poverty Eliminates poverty? Matthew 26:11 "For you always have the poor with you; but you do not always have Me." 8 minutes ago, A Freeman said: but it keeps anyone from becoming filthy rich at everyone else's expense Yet again, people can and do acquire wealth through legitimate means. They things they provide make lives better. 9 minutes ago, A Freeman said: And no, there's nothing different about being rich today in a so-called capitalist society than there was being rich at any other time in human history. Yes, in fact, there is. The entire concept of the kinds of property rights, freedom, democracy, we have today are entirely different and the upward mobility we have in our society because of these things is entirely different. Musk did not start out as the richest man alive, he was no where close to that when he started out. Quote
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