Matthew Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 9 hours ago, Army Guy said: As for the rest of your statement I'm sorry i can't make heads or tails out of it I'm impressed you got a far as you did. 😄 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 No it is not, If NATO countries spend more it would mean the US military would have to spend less filling all the gaps other countries can not fill due to them not spending what they should....Take NORAD for instance US military pays up to 60 % of all those expenditures, while Canada spends maybe 40 % we have not done any upgrades to early warning radars since the 80's .... If nato starts expanding their spending it comes with expansion of total number of people under arms, along with better and more modern equipment....If they are keeping to there 2 Percent they will lift a great deal of the pressure off the US military by taking on more NATO tasks and missions off the USA hands....Take a look at Canada barely able to put a battle group in Latvia....thats about 2500/3000 troops....and we are struggling with that......if we were able to deploy more that would mean the rest of NATO or the US mainly would not have to deploy all the men, women they do saving your tax dollars....I can't explain it any different..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Hodad said: My president is a bully, a pathological liar, a criminal and a traitor. He is not trying to increase your spending in order to save us money. He will increase military spending regardless. And frankly, purely out of ego. Perhaps he is, But he is doing Canada a huge favor for calling us out on things we have neglected for decades.... SO your saying he is decided to put tariffs on Canada becasue he is a d!ck...US military is picking up the slack where others have decided to slacken off....If the US did not have to pick this slack up it could concentrate funds elsewhere...I've asked you before, If it is not important to your government why are they forcing so many to step up and spend more ? .... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 8 hours ago, Army Guy said: Once again, Canada has been asked for DECADES to get it's sh!t together in regards to our nation's security.....and we have ignored the US, and our NATO allieds , they are no longer asking, they are telling.... You're explaining an unacceptable and in all objectivity, unimaginable behavior toward an ally by some straw "causes"? You want to ignore and overlook the essence of it? "You have to give me your land for my security" is a staple from the playbook of aggressive dictators like Hitler and Putin. That you seem to be ready to dismiss it and accept as normal or explainable speaks nothing rational, but only about you. You are ready to accept fascism and what if embrace it further down the way, if there's a good "reason" that you could play to yourself? This is how the things are with you, where's a mistake? Have a mirror nearby? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Venandi Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, Army Guy said: Perhaps he is, But he is doing Canada a huge favor for calling us out on things we have neglected for decades.... I'd say he definitely is but I tend to agree, it's way past time we started getting on with the grunt. This was the topic of conversation in the locker room a few days ago.... essentially, how do you motivate a neighbour (even a good one) to do the right thing if it requires an effort on their part that they can't be bothered to undertake? It's an important question I think and the better the neighbour the more difficult it is to do that without damaging a relationship you otherwise value. The key IMO, is getting your neighbour to care about something he didn't previously care about... you have to make addressing the problem something that's in his best interest. And if you can't do that by asking, begging, cajoling etc, you need to be creative. Since I'm still getting teased about this days later, I'll offer the analogy I proposed in the locker room: Your neighbour has a big fluffy friendly dog that routinely visits your house... you like the dog but he craps in your driveway, digs up the garden, tears your compost pile apart and you want it stopped. You've repeatedly talked to the neighbour about this to no avail... what do you do? Well, IMO, you have to make the neighbour care about the problem. And even though you like the dog, It has to "become his problem too." My solution is to buy one of those large full body frozen salmons that sometimes come on sale at the grocery store. You let it rot in the sun until it gets to an advanced stage of decay and then store it in a sealed container. When the dog comes over you don plastic gloves, grab a handful of fish and rub it into the dogs fur... right around his head and neck were dogs commonly rub in such things. Not a lot BTW, you want the fish to last. And, if asked... you innocently respond with yes, rotting fish makes great compost. At first you'll notice the neighbour buying Febreze at the grocery store but in a few days you'll see him outside installing an "invisible fence" in his yard. POOF... you still pet the dog on your morning walk, you're still on good terms with the neighbour and the problem is solved. As to tariffs and the threat of tariffs, I see them as a tool to be used... but wisely and sparingly. I'm beginning to wonder if Trump is disciplined enough to wield a sharp implement like this in a disciplined manner. Over using sharp tools like this comes with the risk of personal injury and I'm reminded of a YOUTUBE video entitled "idi0ts with chain saws." If you've ever worked in forestry and have a bit of expertise with a saw I highly recommend it. For me, it's right up there with "Master Ken" and the NS Wolf Hoax in terms of entertainment. It makes me laugh just thinking about it. OK.... at the risk of going horribly off topic, here's Master Ken's take on "wheel chair defence." The exercise in total absurdity may serve as cathartic for progressives in need of a Biden fix: Edited January 27 by Venandi Quote
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 To remind, we are talking about threats, not excluding violence, to closest allies, founding members of NATO. "I need that so just give it to me". And we aren't short of the samples, right here who can't wait to explain, rationalize and apologize it. Just watch it, write down what's there to add, live. This is exactly how it happened back then. Still wondering? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Matthew Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 Seems like both "sides" here are being overly simplistic. - The US leads history's largest military alliance. That alliance needs to maintain readiness. All presidents since Bush II have made this a major NATO issue. It's a fine for Trump to manipulate allies to do this. - Our alliance needs to maintain trust in our shared promises. All the readiness in the world is pointless if the actual bonds of agreement are made weaker. Democrats are correct to condemn Trumps actions that cast doubt upon our alliance or which act with hostiliy towards them, or which provide support to enemies. 1 Quote
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Matthew said: It's a fine for Trump to manipulate allies to do this. It's wise and sophisticated to "manipulate" the allies, including by direct threats not excluding military force, in such a way that completely undermines mutual trust and respect? And what's left of the "alliance" then? It's quite possible that for Trump it would be the intended and desired outcome, we cannot know who are his genuine sympathies and alliances with. But what about all those who like to dismiss it as some funny innocent antics? What would they end up with, when the alliances are weakened and/or destroyed? Edited January 27 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Venandi Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 (edited) 9 minutes ago, myata said: But what about all those who like to dismiss it as some funny innocent attics? Come now, it's not funny innocent antics and it comes with potential downsides and risks IMO. But, you either have a workable alliance of the willing (key word here is alliance) or you don't. The dog analogy isn't as absurd as it might appear at first glance, signatories need to step up and do what they said they were going to do. The threat of tariffs has to be used wisely and for the record, I share your concern about Trump's ability to do that in disciplined manner... it's clever and effective nonetheless though, at least it could be. Is there another approach? Look at what the mere threat of tariffs accomplished here in Canada days before inauguration. Voters could have danced naked on their roofs for years and not come anywhere close to having the same effect. There's a visual for ya eh? Edited January 27 by Venandi Quote
Matthew Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 17 minutes ago, myata said: It's wise and sophisticated to "manipulate" the allies, including by direct threats not excluding military force, in such a way that completely undermines mutual trust and respect? No, my point is that the "we need them to spend more" goal has to be balanced with the "we need to lead the alliance and keep it solid" goal. Quote
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 55 minutes ago, Matthew said: "we need to lead the alliance and keep it solid" goal. Who will "lead"? A bozo with a burglar style of communications will lead the alliance of free nations? That happens, where in what reality? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Venandi said: it's clever and effective nonetheless though, at least it could be. It's "clever" only in a very special virtual universe painted in one's happy imagination. And in this reality who would want to deal with a totally unpredictable volatile erratic whose demands and policies can change randomly and on a dime? Remember that word "reason"? People will seek better partners and that could be the end of the alliance. One thing we cannot assume, not without some serious evidence that those people do want and seek to keep the alliances of old, rather then undermine, torpedo and destroy them. What would be that evidence, have you seen it? Or want to take it on faith because they never lied? Edited January 27 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Deluge Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 On 1/25/2025 at 8:17 AM, myata said: What does it mean, America? The meaning, of the silence? You don't need, have no respect and value for the allies? Democrats, how does it feel on that faraway remote trail? Still no connection, to the reality? No honor, no honesty and no integrity left, to scramble? If so, it'll come back much quicker than you want to believe. These tests can failed only to bad, painful and terrible discoveries. They have to play ball, comrade. It's that simple. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 11 hours ago, myata said: You're explaining an unacceptable and in all objectivity, unimaginable behavior toward an ally by some straw "causes"? You want to ignore and overlook the essence of it? "You have to give me your land for my security" is a staple from the playbook of aggressive dictators like Hitler and Putin. That you seem to be ready to dismiss it and accept as normal or explainable speaks nothing rational, but only about you. You are ready to accept fascism and what if embrace it further down the way, if there's a good "reason" that you could play to yourself? This is how the things are with you, where's a mistake? Have a mirror nearby? You need to wake up, Trump is not going to take Canada , he is pressuring Canada to get it's sh!t together...in regards to our security....Instead your acting like we should be preparing for an invasion....We Canadians are reasonable for where we are right now, we allowed the liberal government to underfund our most important departments, we stood by and did nothing except clap for new social programs... I have already dismissed the idea of Canada becoming the 51 st state, because it would be more trouble than it is worth....I'm not ready to accept anything except looking calmly at the problem and coming up with a solution that benifits both countries, you are still hiding under the bed thinking the sky is falling, this is not the first time we have meet trump, this is how he rolls, this is how he negotiates through strength, and right now he has given us a list of things he wants, we could give those things to him, or die fighting... Your to emotional to look at the problem, all you see is fear , if he wanted us to be the 51 st state he could easily take us over night with his military....he has no plans to take on a country that is more liberal than California.... it is not worth the cost... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 4 hours ago, myata said: It's "clever" only in a very special virtual universe painted in one's happy imagination. And in this reality who would want to deal with a totally unpredictable volatile erratic whose demands and policies can change randomly and on a dime? Remember that word "reason"? People will seek better partners and that could be the end of the alliance. One thing we cannot assume, not without some serious evidence that those people do want and seek to keep the alliances of old, rather then undermine, torpedo and destroy them. What would be that evidence, have you seen it? Or want to take it on faith because they never lied? Better partners WTF ? ask yourself have we been good partners, we have been asked for DECADES to increase our military spending to 2 % of GDP, we have constantly been asked to contribute military forces for NATO exercises which we only contribute the bare minimal, same as NATO taskings the same excuses, we are know as a unreliable and largard nation within the NATO alliance...we are that spoiled little snot nose kid that needs someone to kick in the A$$ so they play nice and by the rules...thats what these tariffs are about kicking us in the A#$... The US does not need NATO, NATO needs the US, and if the team is not on the same page, then the US has every right to force them or as the US has already said they will leave. Your butt hurt because the US is telling us what to do... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 Trump doesn’t seem to care about the effect his wild statements have on partners abroad. Musing to ‘clean out’ Gaza only makes the rulers of Egypt, Jordan and KSA look foolish and less legitimate for supporting the US. In Canada, his inability to control his threats against our country is becoming the last hope of the Liberal Party in the next election. Quote
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 14 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Your to emotional to look at the problem, all you see is fear , if he wanted us to be the 51 st state he could easily take us over night with his military....he has no plans to take on a country that is more liberal than California.... it is not worth the cost... Are you f-ing kidding "emotional"? Hitler: give me Sudeten and Poland I need it for my security. Putin: give me Ukraine I feel threatened. Trump: give me Greenland for my security. Denmark is a founding member of NATO, how many more times? Who is blind or dumb here, which one? to miss the difference? Because he's such a smoochy fata$$ he's only kidding us lovingly right? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Trump doesn’t seem to care about the effect his wild statements have on partners abroad. The question is, why the statements? Either he's very very dumb to throw up a lot of mud and when it settles meet his disenchanted and disinterested following when it came to nothing. Or he's testing and preparing ground for something. Which one? Can we just hope for the best or gamble? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Army Guy Posted January 27 Report Posted January 27 6 minutes ago, myata said: Are you f-ing kidding "emotional"? Hitler: give me Sudeten and Poland I need it for my security. Putin: give me Ukraine I feel threatened. Trump: give me Greenland for my security. Denmark is a founding member of NATO, how many more times? Who is blind or dumb here, which one? to miss the difference? Because he's such a smoochy fata$$ he's only kidding us lovingly right? Yes emotional, so emotional... This is not the first time he has offered to buy Greenland....and yet it still belongs to Denmark....go figure.. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: This is not the first time he has offered to buy Greenland....and yet it still belongs to Denmark....go figure.. One cannot argue with blindness, of sight and the mind. If you're ready to accept anything as normal you're only choosing the new normal for yourself. Nobody is to blame and no one to stick it to. And by the way, only factually, you are also lying now, in public too - didn't notice? He did not only "offer". He also threatened and he interfered in the affairs of a close ally. And he didn't exclude the use of force. The new standard of honor in the service, or only individual? Careful where this readiness to accept every ugliness could and will take you but of course, always a free choice. Edited January 27 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
myata Posted January 27 Author Report Posted January 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: he has offered to buy Greenland.... When someone begins to bend or make up the reality it's time to end a reasonable conversation. I just hope it's worth it for you, gives you something important in exchange, anything. I mean, letting go of this reality and honesty not really a small thing. Edited January 27 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
myata Posted January 28 Author Report Posted January 28 (edited) Through all of this, the Democrat Officialdom is coming through as a disoriented, clueless and pretty useless in this pivotal moment of history bunch. Another wise "strategy" like holding Ukraine aid hostage in budget bickering we discussed in the fall of 2024? Well anyone can see how that one worked out - but they learned nothing and looks like have no intent of learning. The accusations of the public, having failed the most important responsibility in a century if not the entire history of democracy is as bombastic as ridiculous. They manufactured their defeat, were warned about it many times and now, weak and bitter think nothing of leading but blaming someone else for their grotesque failure. Watching the numbers in a naive or ridiculous? hope that "the process" will deliver them the fruit right into the stretched hand, with nothing to do for it. As it's been for a while now, long. Why bother? When the play into the system becomes closer and more important than the reality. The motto. An accomplished decay of duty and essence. Edited January 28 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Venandi Posted January 28 Report Posted January 28 (edited) 4 hours ago, myata said: Through all of this, the Democrat Officialdom is coming through as a disoriented, clueless and pretty useless in this pivotal moment of history bunch. In the RCAF we call that "OPs Normal." Edited January 28 by Venandi Quote
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.