Trump about to rip off the US public for $10T... again!

User · January 12

30 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No they're not. There's barely anywhere on the planet now where fishing communities thrive. Most are struggling, many are dead.

Fishing communities? Dude, can you stay focused on one subject at a time?

User · January 12

5 minutes ago, godzilla said:

so EVERYONE can be wealthy?

He was clearly talking about the potential to become wealthy, not that literally every person at the same time can be wealthy.

CdnFox · January 12

7 minutes ago, godzilla said:

is that it? thats all you got?

That's generally what losers say when they know they've got no rebuttal

If you find an error in the numbers let me know.

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even if those numbers are correct... inflation of 8% destroys any middle class and lower advantage. when eggs double in price for the lower half then its serious. for the upper middle half its... meh.

Sure, and that inflation happened under biden, not trump. SOooooo.... there you go

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i'm not a Trump bad guy... he's an id!ot and an obvious tyrant. whatever.

LOL that may not have been as convincing as you meant it to be

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i'm making a factual claim that "conservative" policies favour regressive tax regimes while "liberal" policies favour progressive tax regimes.

That's neither a "factual" claim nor is it terminology that means anything. I doubt you could accurately describe a 'conservative' tax vs a 'liberal' tax other than in the most general and useless terms. Conservatives have taxed and cut taxes on boht the rich and poor over the years and so have the liberals. And based on the lack of understanding you've shown to date i doubt very much you'd be qualified to identify the benefits or disadvantages of the specific examples OR look at the specific problems they were trying to resolve.

13 minutes ago, godzilla said:

in times where the economy is on steroids, the inequality of the wealth distribution is at an all time high, inflation has spiked the cost of living and there has been little to no rise in wages of the working...

The inflation you are talking about was a result of biden's policy for the most part. And wealth inequality is utterly meaningless. It's something that people who want to blame others for their own failings talk about.

If the top 2 percent of americans lost all their money, would that somehow make you richer? Would your life be better somehow? Or would you have to double your taxes to pay for the revenues the gov't just lost.

It's just a 'jealousy' thing. The rich pay more taxes than you by far and don't gain much in the way of extra benefits for it. And none of the wealth they create takes away from the wealth you have or your potential to create wealth.

You've pretty much run this into the ground. Your entire argument at this point is "Me no likee others have more than me". And that's not a very good argument.

CdnFox · January 12

18 minutes ago, godzilla said:

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The fact is the most wealthy people come from low or middle income families.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

13 minutes ago, godzilla said:

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And you have every opportunity to get wealthy if that's what you want and where you're willing to put your focus.

HAHAHAHAHA!

LOL So again no rebuttal and all you can do is laugh hysterically at your own stupidity. This is the equivilant of peeing your pants kiddo.

14 minutes ago, godzilla said:

so EVERYONE can be wealthy?

Ummmm... it already happened kiddo

Go back to the 1800's or 1930's or 20's or even the 60's and look at life and then look at now.

The poor now are VASTLY more wealthy than the poor then. The middle class has access to things that would have been considered to be unthinkable luxury even for the wealthy back in the day. Unbelievable medicines, machines and tech that border on magic, etc etc

our people today are vastly more wealthy than people were in the past at all levels of society.

Everyone DID become wealthy. Many of the 'poor' today have things that the middle class or wealthy in the past couldn't have possibly hoped for, including longer and healthier lives.

And yes, everyone can become wealthy by today's standards as well. And many do. That is a proven fact.

So if you're unhappy with your circumstances... sorry kid, but it's not the world. It's you.

eyeball · January 12

15 minutes ago, User said:

Fishing communities? Dude, can you stay focused on one subject at a time?

So fish and fishing communities are so different that one has nothing to do with the other?

There must be something else making fish disappear I guess.

Never mind.

User · January 12

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So fish and fishing communities are so different that one has nothing to do with the other?

There must be something else making fish disappear I guess.

Never mind.

Feel free to go start a threat about fish disappearing. In the meantime, if you feel like ever returning to the subject here, let me know.

godzilla · January 12

33 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If you find an error in the numbers let me know.

found an error in the numbers. there aren't any.

they can't be verified because no IRS publications are cited.

i gave you 300 citations. you look at those and let me know if you find an error.

Edited January 12 by godzilla

godzilla · January 12

50 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The poor now are VASTLY more wealthy than the poor then.

but the poor can be wealthy too! they just need to set their minds to it. isn't that what you said?

i don't understand... they don't need to do anything? just wait a few generations?

Edited January 12 by godzilla

CdnFox · January 13

41 minutes ago, godzilla said:

found an error in the numbers. there aren't any.

Sounds like the error is in your brain. You literally said "even if the numbers are correct.... " Is this more of you making claims and then admitting you were wrong? Do you get ANYTHING right?

43 minutes ago, godzilla said:

i gave you 300 citations. you look at those and let me know if you find an error.

I already pointed out the error. You're not very good at this are you.

User · January 13

13 minutes ago, godzilla said:

but the poor can be wealthy too! they just need to set their minds to it. isn't that what you said?

Yes, someone who is poor, can certainly become wealthy. This is a basic fact and has been demonstrated. Its great to live in America with this kind of opportunity for upward mobility.

14 minutes ago, godzilla said:

i don't understand... they don't need to do anything? just wait a few generations?

Its called, quality of life. Being poor in America is not like being poor in Ethiopia. You have a home, cable TV, a car...

CdnFox · January 13

13 minutes ago, godzilla said:

but the poor can be wealthy too! they just need to set their minds to it. isn't that what you said?

No, i didn't say that but it's not far from the truth. Everyone in america has the opportunity to become wealthy if they're willing to make that their focus and do the work. And many have.

Most Billionaires Are Self-Made, Not Heirs | Chicago Booth Review

It's long been known that even among the 'wealthy' rather than the mega wealthy the majority come from low to middle income families.

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i don't understand... they don't need to do anything? just wait a few generations?

??? uhhh...... sure, kid.....?

godzilla · January 13

Just now, CdnFox said:

Sounds like the error is in your brain. You literally said "even if the numbers are correct.... " Is this more of you making claims and then admitting you were wrong? Do you get ANYTHING right?

I already pointed out the error. You're not very good at this are you.

is "even if the numbers are correct..." mean that... "those numbers are correct"?

CdnFox · January 13

Just now, godzilla said:

is "even if the numbers are correct..." mean that... "those numbers are correct"?

IT means there's numbers. Which you then went on to say didn't exist.

Dude, you're having a bit of a meltdown. Slow down, take a breath, read the posts and then type your reply, but wait a minute and read it again before sending and see if it still makes sense to you.

godzilla · January 13

6 minutes ago, User said:

Yes, someone who is poor, can certainly become wealthy. This is a basic fact and has been demonstrated.

"can"? that means that there is not zero probability...

so is your argument that everyone in the US of any socioeconomic class has the same probability of becoming wealthy?

because, the wealth distribution would say otherwise. or is that the same old trope that they just don't try hard enough?

still waiting for a number from you regarding how much the Trump tax removed from government revenues!

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

IT means there's numbers. Which you then went on to say didn't exist.

Dude, you're having a bit of a meltdown. Slow down, take a breath, read the posts and then type your reply, but wait a minute and read it again before sending and see if it still makes sense to you.

ok ok.. i'm slowing down. taking a breadth.

"even if the numbers are correct..." means that "there are numbers".

where did the numbers come from?

CdnFox · January 13

Just now, godzilla said:

so is your argument that everyone in the US of any socioeconomic class has the same probability of becoming wealthy?

They have the same access. Probability is different. Most people do not want to do the things necessary to become wealthy, just as not everyone wants to do the things necessary to be a nurse or a soldier etc.

You're confusing equity of opportunity with probability of outcome. Most people aren't nurses. that doesn't mean most people couldn't be one if that was their focus.

3 minutes ago, godzilla said:

still waiting for a number from you regarding how much the Trump tax removed from government revenue

Ahh! well then you're an !diot. This was explained to you.

User · January 13

1 minute ago, godzilla said:

"can"? that means that there is not zero probability...

Any other pointless observations you wish to make?

1 minute ago, godzilla said:

so is your argument that everyone in the US of any socioeconomic class has the same probability of becoming wealthy?

No. I was clear in my comment.

2 minutes ago, godzilla said:

because, the wealth distribution would say otherwise. or is that the same old trope that they just don't try hard enough?

It is not a trope that many people are responsible for their own predicaments.

2 minutes ago, godzilla said:

still waiting for a number from you regarding how much the Trump tax removed from government revenues!

You ran away from the last comment on this subject where I pointed out your repeated lies.

Yet again, you were the one who dishonestly started this thread with the title you did. Are you ready to own up to that yet?

godzilla · January 13

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No, i didn't say that but it's not far from the truth. Everyone in america has the opportunity to become wealthy if they're willing to make that their focus and do the work. And many have.

Most Billionaires Are Self-Made, Not Heirs | Chicago Booth Review

It's long been known that even among the 'wealthy' rather than the mega wealthy the majority come from low to middle income families.

yeah, thats not what your citation claims.

"The proportion of those in the list who grew up poor or had little wealth remained constant at roughly 20 percent throughout the same period"

thats not really "most".

User · January 13

3 minutes ago, godzilla said:

yeah, thats not what your citation claims.

"The proportion of those in the list who grew up poor or had little wealth remained constant at roughly 20 percent throughout the same period"

thats not really "most".

That is the 20% who were poor or had little wealth, add in those from the middle class, then the majority were self made.

Did you deliberately ignore that part of the paragraph you quoted from or just miss it?

godzilla · January 13

How income inequality threatens democracy

Wealth inequality, democracy and economic freedom

"Wealth inequality significantly hampers economic freedom and this effect is reinforced at a lower level of democracy."

Inequality Spurs Democratic Backsliding

How Inequality Undermines Democracy

Support for Democracy in the Age of Rising Inequality and Population Aging

i could go on all day.

and for the contrarian view... since you guys love the Koch Institute... i mean, the Cato Institute.

Has Wealth Inequality Eroded U.S. Democracy?

"In short, the evidence for wealth inequality leading to democratic capture is extraordinarily thin."

hmm... well maybe not so contrarian. they just said it was "thin".

but more importantly... from the Harvard Business Review

Income Inequality Makes Whole Countries Less Happy

but hey! Trumps tax cuts are NOT making the rich more rich! its just putting more money in their pockets than poor people! like, who make too little to pay taxes in the first place... whatever.

godzilla · January 13

25 minutes ago, User said:

That is the 20% who were poor or had little wealth, add in those from the middle class, then the majority were self made.

Did you deliberately ignore that part of the paragraph you quoted from or just miss it?

did you purposely leave out the word "upper" from the above statement? the "upper middle" class?

"who didn't grow up wealthy but had some money in the family—the equivalent of the upper middle class"

"The upper middle class in the United States is generally defined as a household income of $94,001–$153,000, according to the Census Bureau."

more people became upper income than lower income! thats good news... i think. of course, everyones not going to be able to be rich so... maybe its going to be just rich people and poor people?

Edited January 13 by godzilla

User · January 13

Just now, godzilla said:

did you purposely leave out the word "upper" from the above statement? the "upper middle" class?

Nope, that doesn't change the point either.

User · January 13

10 minutes ago, godzilla said:

but hey! Trumps tax cuts are NOT making the rich more rich! its just putting more money in their pockets than poor people! like, who make too little to pay taxes in the first place... whatever.

You should have created a thread where you wanted to talk about wealth inequality instead of dishonestly creating this one based on your lie about how much money the Trump tax cuts "cost"

That seems to be what you really wanted to talk about.

You could have created a thread on that instead of this dishonest end-around to get there.

CdnFox · January 13

58 minutes ago, godzilla said:

yeah, thats not what your citation claims.

"The proportion of those in the list who grew up poor or had little wealth remained constant at roughly 20 percent throughout the same period"

thats not really "most".

Sigh. You have some serious reading and comprehension problems. I said most wealthy come from the lower and middle class. the 20 percent would be the lower class.

To quote:

Some 32 percent of the Forbes 400 in 2011 belonged to very rich families, down from 60 percent in 1982. On the other hand, the share of those in the Forbes 400 who didn't grow up wealthy but had some money in the family—the equivalent of the upper middle class—rose by the about same amount.

So 20 percent from poor people, 48 percent from middle class, for a whopping 68 pecrcent of the very wealthy coming from poor or middle class.

I know math is hard, but c'mon. That was basically addition.

CdnFox · January 13

44 minutes ago, godzilla said:

"The upper middle class in the United States is generally defined as a household income of $94,001–$153,000, according to the Census Bureau."

So like two people earning 55 k per year.

Definitely not rich.

yet their kids frequently go on to be very very wealthy.

Hmmm.

Literally everything you started this thread off with and have tried to make true since then has turned out to be incorrect.

Trump did not rip anyone off for 10 trillion dollars either in the past or coming up. That was wrong

Trump's cuts did substantially benefit the middle class and even the lower class. Your statement that it did not was wrong.

Income inequality is not a problem.

And people from both the poor and middle classes have every opportunity to become extremely wealthy and in fact make up the bulk of people who become wealthy

I don't think you've got anything left to complain about specifically in this thread.

godzilla · January 13

52 minutes ago, User said:

You should have created a thread where you wanted to talk about wealth inequality instead of dishonestly creating this one based on your lie about how much money the Trump tax cuts "cost"

That seems to be what you really wanted to talk about.

You could have created a thread on that instead of this dishonest end-around to get there.

chill out man. no one is lying. i provided the citation on the $10T number. here it is again.

Trump’s Tax Cut-A-Rama Total So Far: $9.75 Trillion

if you have another number then please submit it.

yes, the implied premise that regressive taxation that favors the rich when wealth distribution inequality is at an all time high was what others brought up in response. that if Trump tax cuts favor the rich and it doesn't matter. you and others challenged the premise.