rabble.ca train wreck

[Greg]

Shoop, enough is enough.

I've allowed you to voice your opinion, but you don't seem to know when to just drop it. In the five years I've been moderating this forum, I've seen a lot of pathetic attempts to discredit my moderation, and your latest rant isn't unique.

I always get a kick out of those members who feel victimized by my warnings - like I'm somehow responsible for putting them in the situation they find themselves after hurling insults and disrupting the discussions. In Shoop's case, he's just goading me to ban him so that he can walk away with the smug satisfaction that he's the victim and I'm the big bad moderator.

Riverwind is right, moderating this forum is only a small part of my job, but babysitting immature forum members gunning to be banned isn't.

As I have said in the past, I do not read every single posting in this forum. I cannot possible be expected to monitor every single thing that is posted - nor do I think this is a reasonable expectation. A forum is only successful when all the members take responsibility for their actions, and when a member refuses to respect the rules, then the other members should Report the Post and remind the offending member directly. Offending members from a wide-range of ideologies have been banned from these forums, and on their way out they always claim I'm biased towards them personally or their ideologies. This is nothing new.

Shoop, you've been told numerous times that EVERYONE received the warning "lockup" email. The email was NOT directed at you, but was my attempt to quell the rising use of insults. In fact, this is a technique I often use - see here, here, and here.

If you have a problem with me or these forums then call me directly on my office number (403 329 2286) on Tuesday and we can discuss this issue over the phone.

[Argus]

Argus thank you for, unwittingly, highlighting my point with your post.

See, the insults about me wearing panties and 'taking it like a man' would get some posters a warning from Greg.

I don't think Greg's moderation is so severe he would give a warning for asking "What's got your panties in a twist". That is not an insult. It is a question, one which you don't seem able to respond to. Nobody here actually knows what you continue to harp on. I asked if it was the email that went out to everyone. You didn't answer. I asked for specifics, and you still haven't answered.

[uOttawaMan]

The internet is serious business.

[shoop]

Argus,

Yes I have received warnings for posts that could easily be considered less offensive than yours. But I haven't sychophantically been defending Greg so I got a warning. Yes that 'warning' blast email was offensive. I think I outlined my case pretty well earlier in this thread. Specifically post #40 of this thread is the key of what I want to say. I know I am probably not going to change his mind, but maybe he might approach things with a bit more of an open mind if I try.

I really don't see what I am doing that is so bad here. I am asking legitimate questions. I am playing within the rules but not kissing arse in doing so.

This is a message board on politics, I think having posters here who are willing to work to make the community better for everybody should be welcomed ... not encouraged to leave because the moderator and a few sychophants deem it to be in their best interest.

Why is it so bad to ask questions? Am I really interrupting the board that much?

Riverwind, August, Argus. I am not trying to get banned. I am trying to make a point. Do you really think the board is better off with the current mix of people? I am not sure, but I am willing to try and make it better. A big part of the reason I am doing so is because I do a free and open board for discussing Canadian politics. The people I know who left are good posters who don't want to be treated like children. I would like to create an environment in which they would feel happy to come back to MLW. Why will none of you deal with the question about the people who left after that email? Have any of you taken offense to any of my other posts here (other than this thread)?

Greg, how am I trying to get banned? You have told me *enough is enough* to *move on* and that I have been *wasting everyone's time*. If you really do issue your warnings as gentle reminders, than I haven't done anything outside this thread that would be considered offensive to anyone. I have asked you to treat me with the same respect you demand from others, yet you won't do it. I don't know when to drop it? What exactly does that mean? I don't know when to respect your dictatorial rule? Sorry, can't call you during business hours. (Check my post history, vast majority of posts are outside work hours.) However, if you do want to take this discussion off the board sending me a PM and actually responding when I have read what you sent me and have replied is probably a good step.

[CamTheCat]

Wow.

I go away for a week and the political forum community falls apart!

I will be watching and participating when babble goes back online.

I frequently found myself and my posts under attack there by a select few, but that's how great discussions and debates were started. In those situations either some points were agreed upon, or some posters agreed to disagree, but there was usually mature and reasonable conduct (not always, but usually).

Then there were some trolls, and there were some spammers, but by the time this all became a big problem I had grown tired of constantly defending and explaining my posts, over and over, and I had stopped hanging out there. I think I drew a lot of heat because my posts during the election were strongly in support of the Green Party, and as we all remember the NDP declared a smear campaign against the Greens, and rabble has a few passionate extreme leftists and NDP supporters. I wish we could all just get along.

Anyways, the drama is too interesting to ingnore. I look forward to watching this all play out.

In the meantime there are many other forums out there (including this one) that have great people and great discussions.

Cam

[Argus]

Argus,

Yes I have received warnings for posts that could easily be considered less offensive than yours. But I haven't sychophantically been defending Greg so I got a warning.

I have received warnings myself in the past. So what? I never thought I didn't deserve them. Maybe you'd like to be more clear about what you were warned about and why you feel you didn't deserve the warning?

Yes that 'warning' blast email was offensive.

That would be the one he apologised for and pointed out that it was broadcast to everyone and he didn't intend it as a personal judgement on anyone? Perhaps you get offended too easily.

I think I outlined my case pretty well earlier in this thread. Specifically post #40 of this thread is the key of what I want to say. I know I am probably not going to change his mind, but maybe he might approach things with a bit more of an open mind if I try.

Post number 40 struck me as petty whining about how disrespectfully you were being treated with no specifics about what set you off in the first place.

I really don't see what I am doing that is so bad here. I am asking legitimate questions. I am playing within the rules but not kissing arse in doing so.

I'd say there is a difference between kissing arse and having a big chip on your shoulder.

Why is it so bad to ask questions? Am I really interrupting the board that much?

Not in the least, so far as I'm concerned. But I don't think the way you're phrasing your question is likely to get you any kind of satisfactory results. It is one thing to ask a question quietly and politely while "not kissing ass" and it's another to get in someone's face over it.

[shoop]

Argus,

I've told Greg I will deal with him on PMs if he wants. So to your points...

I have received warnings myself in the past. So what? I never thought I didn't deserve them. Maybe you'd like to be more clear about what you were warned about and why you feel you didn't deserve the warning?

Short answer, I had issues with timing and the behaviour of other posts on some threads that lead to the warnings. I never got a response to most of my questions.

That would be the one he apologised for and pointed out that it was broadcast to everyone and he didn't intend it as a personal judgement on anyone? Perhaps you get offended too easily.

Perhaps you shouldn't judge me. Interesting how on this thread Greg has done nothing but defend that email and the way in which he moderates the board. Which should we take at face value the apology? Or the defence?

Post number 40 struck me as petty whining about how disrespectfully you were being treated with no specifics about what set you off in the first place.

There wasn't anything in particular that *set me off* in the first place. On post #6 I dared to ask a question about the lockdown. Greg asked a rude question and belittled my use of the term lockdown. As I have said repeatedly, Greg should be treating posters with the respect he demands they use on the board.

I'd say there is a difference between kissing arse and having a big chip on your shoulder.

There seems like a lot of distraction from my main point. Respect. Greg should give it if he demands it from others. A point you are conveniently ignoring time after time.

Not in the least, so far as I'm concerned. But I don't think the way you're phrasing your question is likely to get you any kind of satisfactory results. It is one thing to ask a question quietly and politely while "not kissing ass" and it's another to get in someone's face over it.

I have tried to ask questions quietly and politely only to find them to be ignored or belittled. Look at post #6 again and Greg's response. Seems like his response was more "getting in my face" than my question. Quid pro quo?

I realize that it is easiest for Greg is I simply go away, but it is best for the board if I don't.

[uOttawaMan]

The internet is serious business.

[Naci Sey]

I will be watching and participating when babble goes back online.

I frequently found myself and my posts under attack there by a select few, but that's how great discussions and debates were started. In those situations either some points were agreed upon, or some posters agreed to disagree, but there was usually mature and reasonable conduct (not always, but usually).

Then there were some trolls, and there were some spammers, but by the time this all became a big problem I had grown tired of constantly defending and explaining my posts, over and over, and I had stopped hanging out there. I think I drew a lot of heat because my posts during the election were strongly in support of the Green Party, and ... rabble has a few passionate extreme leftists and NDP supporters. I wish we could all just get along.

In the meantime there are many other forums out there (including this one) that have great people and great discussions.

Yes, if A had a position B didn't like, the post would be cherry-picked to death. And if that didn't work, then B would simply impute A as having an extreme or reverse position, without any regard to what A had written.

Ditto. I agree that the welcome mat to views other than NDP got badly frayed over the election period.

I wish we could all just get along. So do I. I'm bewildered by the nastiness of some of these boards. Where are all the people who just want to debate the issues - without invective, without insults, aiming for understanding of differences and making our own positions more clear?

Could you PM me with some suggestions? I'm feeling quite lost since the babble blow-up and am looking for some friendly places to share ideas.

[Tawasakm]

You know I actually believe Gregs intervention has improved the quality of this forum. As such I will be trying to find time to start posting here again myself.

Shoop, I believe it is impossible for any moderator to makes decisions that everybody approves of. I received that same email you did. I actually read and thought, 'great he is going to making an effort to get the forums sorted.' I also realise, since he is a new father, that the dedication of his time to that task is a precious thing. He has had alot of people snipe at him over time (to some extent even me) but he always comes through. If these forums are a reflection of Gregs ethics and standards then he comes off smelling of roses.

Greg, how am I trying to get banned?

It reads that way because you keep bringing it up yourself.

If daring to question his authority is too much then so be it.

I'll stick around unless you are going to take your ball and go home - i.e. ban me for daring to question your dictatorial and hypocritcal moderation style.

In my experience Greg won't ban you for questioning. On the other hand he won't necessarily want to keep talking in circles either. Since the discussion is going nowhere it may be best to agree to disagree?

[shoop]

How am I 'bringing it up' by respoding to posts?

Greg asked me to move the discussion with him off the board. I will, but can't phone him during work hours. So I've left the ball in his court.

The discussion is 'going in circles' because my questions aren't being answered, and Greg is ascribing motives to me that aren't true.

If you don't like the questions I am asking and feel the discussion is going in circles just don't look at this thread. Problem solved for you I would guess.

It reads that way because you keep bringing it up yourself.

In my experience Greg won't ban you for questioning. On the other hand he won't necessarily want to keep talking in circles either. Since the discussion is going nowhere it may be best to agree to disagree?

[uOttawaMan]

You haven't really asked any relevant questions to begin with.

You asked why he italicised a word. I'm sure this takes up a great deal of your day, perplexing over why someone would choose to do such a thing, and what the many possible underlying meanings could be. Good on you.

Then you accused him of being heavy handed. Which I don't see as a question.

Then you talk about leaving the ball is his court and moving the discussion off the board. If Greg has said he will be discussing this with you via PM or e-mail or phone or what have you, youre questions would then not be answered by continuing to post in this thread, and therefore you are contributing to a dead thread, which would qualify as "bringing it up" and trolling for more responses from other forum users so that you can continue to get attention, which is all this has turned into.

[shoop]

If you don't like the questions I am asking and feel the discussion is going in circles just don't look at this thread. Problem solved for you I would guess.

[Black Dog]

Kiraly:

In my experience, there is no clear policy on what behaviours are acceptable and unacceptable.

Well they have a policy statement. perhaps you shoudl read it?

If you are inferring Free Dominion, I would respectfully disagree. Opinions contrary to small “c” conservatism expressed in a respectful manner are tolerated. Some members will disagree with that opinion and will most assuredly voice theirs, but you will be free to express them.

Not a chance. FD is as much a echo chamber as rabble. Moreso, in fact.

I can name just over half a dozen self described conservatives on that site. Most of these conservatives rarely put forward opinions that conflict with the general consensus of the community. In my experience, most refrain from engaging in ideological discussions that would put them at odds with the other members and focus on issues where the opinions have the support of other members.

As a bette rman than I once said: "That's just, like, your opinion, man."

My first stop as I went searching forlornly for a new home was Free Dominion, not because it's ideologically similar to my position - most of the thread titles suggest otherwise. But because the discourse is, in general, polite and devoid of ad hominem attacks.

[uOttawaMan]

If you don't like the questions I am asking and feel the discussion is going in circles just don't look at this thread. Problem solved for you I would guess.

I an unable to make a judgment like that, as you have barely asked one question. And let's be honest, you really don't want people to stop looking at this thread now do you?

[geoffrey]

This is degrading quickly into a bit of problem. Scary scary scary.

Don't provoke him, don't be provoked. Relax. Have a beer.

[theloniusfleabag]

If you don't like the questions I am asking and feel the discussion is going in circles just don't look at this thread. Problem solved for you I would guess.

Shoop, you are wasting our bandwidth and our moderator's time. We all got the same e-mail you did, he has used the same tone with all of us, and if I may say, rightly so. 'Begging to be banned'? You bet you are. Like those idiots who have simple run-ins with the cops, but don't know when to shut up. They talk themselves into a jail cell and/or a beating.

I suggest you stop bugging the cop, or it's off to the hoosegow for a different kind of buggery.

[Greg]

Ok, guys, the discussions in this thread have degraded considerably. Lets all consider this thread dead - perhaps I will close the thread and we can forget any of this happend.

August1991, your original post about Rabble was an interesting question, and I encourage you to post another thread about this issue in these forums.

To any Rabble forum members who needs some refuge until the Rabble forums are back up and running properly, please feel free to use these forums. The forums at Maple Leaf Web are populated with members from a wide-range of ideologies.