West is divided between rising extreme right and traditional democracy in the face of developing new axis of tyrannies. It doesn't look good

[myata]

If the will and resolve to stand one's ground united and strong isn't there, the writing would be on the wall for the West's place in the future. How could the divisions be overcome and healed, in this critical moment in the humanity's history?

[CITIZEN_2015]

It is an unfortunate truth. The corrupt ignorant governments in Western countries in the past did not control immigration and opened the door to people of inferior cultures like refugees from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and North Africa and mess up what was a democratic peaceful Europe and now the sleeping giant of nationalism which was put to sleep after WII is waken up. My hope is that the future government in Canada would address our immigration problems intelligently so that same fate does not follow our nation. 

Edited December 28, 2024 by CITIZEN_2015

[User]

2 hours ago, myata said:

If the will and resolve to stand one's ground united and strong isn't there, the writing would be on the wall for the West's place in the future. How could the divisions be overcome and healed, in this critical moment in the humanity's history?

What specifically do you think people lack the resolve to stand for? 

How specifically do you think the writing is on the wall for the West's place in the future?

What divisions are you talking about needing to be healed and overcome?

What specifically makes this a critical moment in humanity's history?

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It is an unfortunate truth. The corrupt ignorant governments in Western countries in the past did not control immigration and opened the door to people of inferior cultures like refugees from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and North Africa and mess up what was a democratic peaceful Europe and now the sleeping giant of nationalism which was put to sleep after WII is waken up. My hope is that the future government in Canada would address our immigration problems intelligently so that same fate does not follow our nation. 

Yes, that and the fact that we need immigration to keep up the population/worker numbers because 2nd wave feminists convinced women that mind-numbing corporate careers are more important and fulfilling than raising a family.

Our society is so decadent that even men don't want have to have kids anymore, or shovel the driveway or mow the grass, and they live in their parents' house until they're 35 because they're scared to talk to women outside of the few they might come across while online gaming.

We can add broken families via divorces, kids out of wedlock due to casual sex (especially amongst the lower incomes), and abortions to the list.  The progressive left since the 1960's has been destroying western civilizations.  They want their comforts and "rights" without thinking through the consequences.  So stick your parents in a retirement home and your kids in a daycare and tell them to STFU.

Then you have the economic right r*ping the worker since the 1980's, and parroting corporate "freedom" talking points, and at least in the US letting the rich convince them that huge profits for colleges, healthcare and health insurance companies, and gun makers and defense contractors is good for society.  It's a real sh*t-show.

People are dumb as f*ck.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

The West isn't "divided between rising extreme right and traditional democracy", it's divided by the nationalistic right and the self-hating progressive left.  Since I'm not a submissive self-hating guilt-ridden loser and don't support civilizational self-destruction I'll side with the nationalistic right as long as it doesn't go to extremes.

[CITIZEN_2015]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Yes, that and the fact that we need immigration to keep up the population/worker numbers because 2nd wave feminists convinced women that mind-numbing corporate careers are more important and fulfilling than raising a family.

 

Feminism lives.

Women have as much right to choose. They are not Cows to produce and milk Women are by far smarter than men given equal opportunity. Maybe it is time to change roles now. Men should start doing housework and take care of children now. The Middle Eastern attitudes are evil. VICTORY TO FEMINIST MOVEMENTS.

Woman Life Freedom.

[Moonlight Graham]

13 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Feminism lives.

Women have as much right to choose. They are not Cows to produce and milk Women are by far smarter than men given equal opportunity. Maybe it is time to change roles now. Men should start doing housework and take care of children now. The Middle Eastern attitudes are evil. VICTORY TO FEMINIST MOVEMENTS.

Woman Life Freedom.

The rights and freedoms granted by 2nd wave feminism shouldn't be banned again, they've just been abused and taken to an extreme.  Every virtue, when taken to an extreme, becomes a vice.

Women should be free to choose whatever they wish.  Not every women is fit to be a mother.    I'm not proposing A Handmaid's Tale.  However, some of those choices when enacted broadly are so anti-nature and anti-human that they are existential threats to western civilization itself.  And most men support these choices so share some of the blame as well.  Yes Muslim attitudes on women are stone-age barbaric.

If you support maintaining a society that has sub-replacement level birth rates that society will cease to exist.  No society in human history could survive such a sustained demographic trend, it's just basic math.  If all societies in the world followed the path of western feminists the human species would eventually go extinct, and that's an objective fact backed by data.  Everyone is also free to throw themselves off a cliff or eat paint chips.

 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[myata]

5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

as long as it doesn't go to extremes.

Oh but it will, like what's there to prevent it? Once we see that hot talking, by itself, doesn't solve (m)any problems there will need to be the guilty appointed, and scapegoats found. And so on and to the conclusion, the adage goes. Why not? What's there to prevent it?

[Moonlight Graham]

39 minutes ago, myata said:

Oh but it will, like what's there to prevent it? Once we see that hot talking, by itself, doesn't solve (m)any problems there will need to be the guilty appointed, and scapegoats found. And so on and to the conclusion, the adage goes. Why not? What's there to prevent it?

Democracy I guess.  Congress has elections every 2 years luckily.  If the GOP/Trump do a bad job they'll lose control of the House in 2026.

[myata]

54 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Democracy I guess.  Congress has elections every 2 years luckily.

The formal process, formalities? Rome republic fell two millennia ago. Hitler's ascend to dictatorship, a century was not prevented by formal institutions. How many more examples needed to convince us that formal arrangement, paperwork is no guarantee of anything in real life?

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 People are dumb as f*ck.

I don't agree. I think that humanity has a balance of selfishness and selflessness, and that our social structures build on that duality.  Parenthood, patriotism, environmentalism.  Capitalism, enterprise, working to get ahead.

Said social structures evolve with our knowledge, our technology and science, and our humanity.

I started a thread recently based on Steven Pinker 's Enlightenment Now, and his thesis is that things are better than ever.

But rather than convince you, I'll say that in times of change, I step back and take a longer view of the human experience.  We're starting to do things in the way they did before the industrial revolution, and there are a lot of examples.

Socially - family size, mobility, and disbelief in science and tribalism might be a few.  

So I look back at such times and realize that humanity persevered major structural changes and adjusted.

Not to say we're going back to those days.  We're absolutely not.  But large changes in social structure happen.

If we're going to have a hedonistic and pleasure based social economy, then we will depopulate.  But at some point, it will rebalance again at some point.

 

 

 

[myata]

You want advanced democracy, now? OK. But of course, only: can you sort this?

[NAME REMOVED]

George Bush used to call Iraq, Iran, and North Korea the "axis of evil." 

 

 

Which led me to label the MAGA posters on this forum "the axis of squeal."

Edited December 29, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[Moonlight Graham]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If we're going to have a hedonistic and pleasure based social economy, then we will depopulate.  But at some point, it will rebalance again at some point.

Its possible, but also possible it doesn't happen.  There are no guarantees, we'll need to want to make these changes, and right now there is little will for it.

If people are lazy and too comfortable then maybe the only way out is forced uncomfortableness via some kind of economic collapse.  Canada is well on its way, we're a very unproductive society (according to analysts) with an economy led by oil, banking, and housing real estate, the latter 2 of which are simply leeching off the incomes of hard-working people.