Tariffs on Canadian Goods

CdnFox · February 9

2 hours ago, Barquentine said:

Clinton cleaned up Bush 1's mess.

No, but if it makes you feel better to lie to yourself then sure

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Obama cleaned up Bush 2's mess

Bush cleaned up bush's mess and obama enjoyed the benefits of that by inheriting an economy that was healed and on the mend. ,

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Biden cleaned up Trump's mess.

ROFLAMO!!!! Trump did better than biden by every reasonable metric and the economy IS a mess right now Inflation wiped out americans buying power, the defiict soared even higher under him whether you include or exclude the pandemic years, his job numbers were far worse than he reported as we've now found out and crime was vastly worse, Biden has done worse than trump OR obama and spent a huge amount of time and money covering that up. We've been over those numbers here.

And with democrats, every accusation is a confession. The argument here that's a result of confirmation bias if any would be yours. Your ability to convince yourself of what is obviously false is amazing.

When times are tough people hire republicans, and things get fixed. It's often painful but it gets done. Then democrats will come along and create the conditions for a failure.

Do you think people hated biden because he did so well? Do you think his approval ratings were in the dumpster even before his disasterous debate because people were thinking "Gee, I'm doing so well the economy is great'? Do you think people trashed kammy so hard because they thought we really needed MOAR democratic finance policy?

They went to trump becuase they saw the country was in financial distress and they thought he could fix it. They remembered life under him before and it was good.

Yeash. How many times do you have to hit your head before you believe the nonsense you're spouting.

BTW it works the same in canada. Liberals trash, Conservatives fix.

Aristides · February 9

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No, but if it makes you feel better to lie to yourself then sure

The last time the US had a budget surplus was under Clinton. In the last two years of his presidency.

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Bush cleaned up bush's mess and obama enjoyed the benefits of that by inheriting an economy that was healed and on the mend. ,

The sub prime fiasco and 2008 financial meltdown was under Bush. Obama got stuck with it.

Mr. Revisionist History strikes again.

Aristides · February 10

Trump's 30 day word barely lasted a week.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-tariff-steel-aluminum-canada-1.7454845

Barquentine · February 10

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Yeash. How many times do you have to hit your head before you believe the nonsense you're spouting.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

Trump's 30 day word barely lasted a week.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-tariff-steel-aluminum-canada-1.7454845

Let's just hope some sense kicks in for the midterms.

CdnFox · February 10

6 hours ago, Aristides said:

The last time the US had a budget surplus was under Clinton. In the last two years of his presidency.

That's true, he eliminated the requirements for mortgages and mortgage and homebuilding went through the roof which created the biggest housing bubble the world has ever seen and would lead to the great recesssion.

But yep he ran a surplus

It's easy to run a surplus for a short time when you're willing to destroy the economy long term to do it

Not sure why you'd brag about THAT.

In any case you're quite right when you point out that obama didn't run one, biden ran the worst ones in history, none of the ones before him ran one going back decades......

6 hours ago, Aristides said:

The sub prime fiasco and 2008 financial meltdown was under Bush. Obama got stuck with it.

Nope. It was a direct result of the changes to banking made under clinton.

Here ya go, from that ultra- right wing time magazine

Bill Clinton - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME

Of course that was written back during the crisis when it was still all fresh, since then economists have agreed that this was the primary cause of the crash.

Clintion himself admitted it later, and to his credit he tried to get the democrats to back off and change some of the laws back a little to prevent it from getting out of control. But they refused. And refused again when bush tried.

Sorry kiddo. I know you hate truths that don't support your echo chamber but the facts are the facts

Clinton was the cause of the crisis. All the other causes stem from him, because of what he did they began to build more homes and mortgage companies began to loosen rules more and more and housing sales went through the roof and people were buying and flipping homes they could not hope to afford but as long as prices were going up they were fine, and the dems refused to put the breaks on and eventually it blew up.

it's not about when the grenade goes off, its when the guy pulled the pin and threw it. And that was clinton.

Have a cookie and a nap. You'll feel better

Aristides · February 10

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That's true, he eliminated the requirements for mortgages and mortgage and homebuilding went through the roof which created the biggest housing bubble the world has ever seen and would lead to the great recesssion.

But yep he ran a surplus

It's easy to run a surplus for a short time when you're willing to destroy the economy long term to do it

Not sure why you'd brag about THAT.

In any case you're quite right when you point out that obama didn't run one, biden ran the worst ones in history, none of the ones before him ran one going back decades......

Nope. It was a direct result of the changes to banking made under clinton.

Here ya go, from that ultra- right wing time magazine

Bill Clinton - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME

Of course that was written back during the crisis when it was still all fresh, since then economists have agreed that this was the primary cause of the crash.

Clintion himself admitted it later, and to his credit he tried to get the democrats to back off and change some of the laws back a little to prevent it from getting out of control. But they refused. And refused again when bush tried.

Sorry kiddo. I know you hate truths that don't support your echo chamber but the facts are the facts

Clinton was the cause of the crisis. All the other causes stem from him, because of what he did they began to build more homes and mortgage companies began to loosen rules more and more and housing sales went through the roof and people were buying and flipping homes they could not hope to afford but as long as prices were going up they were fine, and the dems refused to put the breaks on and eventually it blew up.

it's not about when the grenade goes off, its when the guy pulled the pin and threw it. And that was clinton.

Have a cookie and a nap. You'll feel better

The changes were made under Clinton but Bush had 8 years to correct them.

Aristides · February 10

US banking regulations have always been very lax, that's why so many of them go bankrupt.

CdnFox · February 10

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

The changes were made under Clinton but Bush had 8 years to correct them.

Well not 8 years actually. Shortly after he took over the problem had become so dire that there simply was no easy correction. And while the public saw the disaster in 2008 it was actually already beginning in 2006 and there was no stopping it at that point. He came into power in 2002 so really about 4 years to address a situation that was already out of control when he came into office.

All he could do is change the laws to prevent it from getting worse - and he tried. But he was shot down by the democrats i the house just as clinton himself was when he tried to back it off. The US is not like canada, the person in power doesn't have all the clout, the house can vote down important bills in the states (or the senate) and the gov't doesn't fall so they do.

No matter how you slice it the democrats were the root cause and prevented the gov't (both clinton AND bush) from resolving the matter .

Y'know. Because "everyone deserves to own a home".

Aristides · February 10

Republicans controlled both houses from 2003 to 2007.

CdnFox · February 10

56 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Republicans controlled both houses from 2003 to 2007.

Way too late by then. By 2025 fannie and freddy were on the ropes and going down, set to take out the rest of the market with it.

The republicans DID pass the first bill in 2005 to reign them in within the senate banking committee, and it would have stopped the runaway out of control mess from getting As bad as it did.

But democrats still controlled that committee and shot it down in 2005.

The republicans could have put a stop to the worst of it, but were blocked by the dems.

How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

Funny side story, the dems who voted against it got money directly from clinton shortly after.

Aristides · February 11

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Way too late by then. By 2025 fannie and freddy were on the ropes and going down, set to take out the rest of the market with it.

The republicans DID pass the first bill in 2005 to reign them in within the senate banking committee, and it would have stopped the runaway out of control mess from getting As bad as it did.

But democrats still controlled that committee and shot it down in 2005.

The republicans could have put a stop to the worst of it, but were blocked by the dems.

How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

Funny side story, the dems who voted against it got money directly from clinton shortly after.

When you get right down to it, banks created it. No one forces them to operate the way they do.

CdnFox · February 11

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

When you get right down to it, banks created it. No one forces them to operate the way they do.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were creations of the government. And both democrat gov'ts at that

When the market itself controlled things not many people could afford homes. Banks gave loans for short-term and you had to have huge down payments etc. The government created organizations like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac deliberately to interfere with the market forces to make homes more accessible.

The duty falls on the government in such cases to make sure that as a result of this there are laws in place that don't allow for the kind of abuses which destroy the market. You've artificially interfered with the market and therefore you have to manage that very carefully.

The democrats changed a number of laws specifically in order to make it easy for people who could not afford a home to get one, almost to the point of Ridiculousness. The new law said you didn't even have to have a job as long as you were looking for one and that would be sufficient to qualify for a mortgage.

Of course home buying shot up like a rocket. And then home building did and prices shot up and it happened Very quickly.

The republicans through the bank senate committee attempted to mitigate the damage and get things back to normal and the democrats blocked even that. By 2005 it was really too late and the house of cards began to collapse and that was that. They could hold off ruin for a short while but not for long and by 2008 it was apparent to everyone that there was no walking away from it.

That was Bill Clinton. He did that. Along with his merry band of democrats. Blaming bush for it when they blocked him in his attempts to fix it is simply dishonest.

When times are tough, people turn to the tories. Democrats and liberals ruin economies, tories and republicans clean up the mess

NAME REMOVED · February 11

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

When times are tough, people turn to the tories. Democrats and liberals ruin economies, tories and republicans clean up the mess

When times are tough, you turn to NyQuil.

To each his own, I guess..

Barquentine · February 11

On 2/9/2025 at 3:39 PM, CdnFox said:

There's an old saying. When times are tough you turn to the tories.

No one has ever said that except the tories.

Aristides · February 11

3 hours ago, Barquentine said:

No one has ever said that except the tories.

Actually in 93, they turned to the Liberals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO7rFLIa1aY

CdnFox · February 11

4 hours ago, Barquentine said:

No one has ever said that except the tories.

And history It's been well noted and in fact the phrase has been used by people describing the phenomenon, which has been discussed a great deal by anyone interested in politics or finance.

Dion even tried to change it up when he ran for leader of the party and said "tory times are tough times", but it didn't stick ,

Now there are always going to be exceptions, but by and large left leaning gov'ts wind up putting in place policies that weaken the economy and drag it down while right of center parties tend to streamline and make policy that stimulates business.

Consider things right now - during harper's time we had an economy that was the envy of most of the world and people talked about harper 'getting it right' on the economy for quite some time. Despite one of the worst recessions in history he turned over a balanced budget with health and core services still fully funded. Business investment in Canada was strong and we had new trade agreements including strong new trade and a trade surplus with india for the first time.

Since then trudeau has been in power for 10 years, people can't afford a home, or food, business investment is leaving canada for the first time in our history, we've about doubled the civil service yet our gov't services are slower and weaker than ever before, Our gdp per capital which dictates what quality of life we can afford is plummeting, we've had extremely high inflation, and we lost trade with many countries including india and now we're in a massive trade war we were unprepared for

Everybody knows that when times are tough people turn to the tories and always have. Liberals do not by and large build successful economies, they overspend or overindulge until there's a mess

Barquentine · February 11

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

people can't afford a home, or food, business investment is leaving canada for the first time in our history, we've about doubled the civil service yet our gov't services are slower and weaker than ever before, Our gdp per capital which dictates what quality of life we can afford is plummeting, we've had extremely high inflation, and we lost trade with many countries including india and now we're in a massive trade war we were unprepared for

You don't need to tell me about the price of food. I feed a family of four on a small income. On that same small income I bought and paid off a house. Sacrifice the unnecessary and it can be done.

Inflation was a worldwide phenomenon.

India's government is the problem in our relations. Despite (or maybe because of tha)t Indian nationals have made up the largest per cent of Immigrants for a few years where I live. )

When you have the closest relationship of any 2 countries in the world for at least 80 years you shouldn't have to prepare for a trade war. That's on one man-Trump.

I agree our productivity is slipping. Hope the next government can address that.

CdnFox · February 11

49 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

You don't need to tell me about the price of food. I feed a family of four on a small income. On that same small income I bought and paid off a house. Sacrifice the unnecessary and it can be done.

Could be done. But if you say you did it then that means you're not doing it right at the moment and right at the moment it's almost impossible unless you have access to the bank of mom and Dad or are in about the top 40% of income earners in Canada.

For the majority all the sacrifice in the world won't make it happen.

51 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

Inflation was a worldwide phenomenon.

Inflation as we experienced it was mostly due to decisions made in Canada. We've been over this topic a million times here, we've read all of the banking reports, there's absolutely no doubt. It's not up to debate. About 50% of the initial increase in inflation was a result of world factors that were not Canadian and of course a small amount was a result of cerb although not very much. However the rest and virtually everything passed mid or end 2022 was a direct result of government policy one way or another.

52 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

India's government is the problem in our relations

No, Trudeau going over there and inviting someone who killed their political leaders in the past to go along with him combined with his mocking them with weird Bollywood outfits is what led to the decline and almost immediately after that visit we began to see what was a healthy trade surplus dwindle to nothing. Harper had spent years building that relationship and this guy torched it

Then there's Saudi Arabia, there's Europe where he completely screwed up the free trade deal so that we don't benefit from it but they do, there's the free trade deal with the Americans where he lost ground. Then there's Japan who is begging to buy our natural gas and was told to f off and now has bought it from America as well as germany.

Trudeau's history on the trade front has been an abject disaster

54 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

When you have the closest relationship of any 2 countries in the world for at least 80 years you shouldn't have to prepare for a trade war. That's on one man-Trump.

You absolutely should and that's what happens with nations. That's why any responsible government make sure that they are not dependent on a neighbor.

And it's not just trump, this is not the first time we've been through this. Biden made us fight for our trade relationship too, Obama threatened it, if you go back through history many American presidents have directly threatened or influenced or impacted our economy in a negative fashion right down to canceling the Avro Arrow and disbanding our aviation programs or threatening us over water rights.

So you don't leave yourself vulnerable. You don't put all of your eggs in one basket and you make sure that your Country is strong and healthy and they failed to do that.

Without any doubt and buy a fair margin Trudeau has been the worst Prime minister we have ever had by far, and a classic example of the liberals destroying and the conservatives will need to step in and rebuild

Barquentine · February 12

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Inflation as we experienced it was mostly due to decisions made in Canada. We've been over this topic a million times here, we've read all of the banking reports, there's absolutely no doubt. It's not up to debate. About 50% of the initial increase in inflation was a result of world factors that were not Canadian and of course a small amount was a result of cerb although not very much. However the rest and virtually everything passed mid or end 2022 was a direct result of government policy one way or another.

5 hours ago, Barquentine said:

India's government is the problem in our relations

No, Trudeau going over there and inviting someone who killed their political leaders in the past to go along with him combined with his mocking them with weird Bollywood outfits is what led to the decline and almost immediately after that visit we began to see what was a healthy trade surplus dwindle to nothing. Harper had spent years building that relationship and this guy torched it

Then there's Saudi Arabia, there's Europe where he completely screwed up the free trade deal so that we don't benefit from it but they do, there's the free trade deal with the Americans where he lost ground. Then there's Japan who is begging to buy our natural gas and was told to f off and now has bought it from America as well as germany.

Trudeau's history on the trade front has been an abject disaster

5 hours ago, Barquentine said:

When you have the closest relationship of any 2 countries in the world for at least 80 years you shouldn't have to prepare for a trade war. That's on one man-Trump.

You absolutely should and that's what happens with nations. That's why any responsible government make sure that they are not dependent on a neighbor.

And it's not just trump, this is not the first time we've been through this. Biden made us fight for our trade relationship too, Obama threatened it, if you go back through history many American presidents have directly threatened or influenced or impacted our economy in a negative fashion right down to canceling the Avro Arrow and disbanding our aviation programs or threatening us over water rights.

So you don't leave yourself vulnerable. You don't put all of your eggs in one basket and you make sure that your Country is strong and healthy and they failed to do that.

Without any doubt and buy a fair margin Trudeau has been the worst Prime minister we have ever had by far, and a classic example of the liberals destroying and the conservatives will need to step in and rebuild

India-Canadian trade has increased both ways since the pandemic.

Every Western country had high inflation coming out of the pandemic. Trump only won because of inflation. He promised to bring prices down. He isn't even trying and in fact is pursuing stupid policies which will increase inflation. EVERY economist is saying this.

We have trade agreements. Trump signed a new trade treaty with us and of course he's going back on his word. He only opens his mouth to lie. But you gotta keep those tax cuts for the rich. Right?

And I just paid off my house a few months ago. It can be done. Easy to get a mortgage with a lower monthly payment than rent.

But if you've got grievances it's easy to find someone to blame.

CdnFox · February 12

29 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

India-Canadian trade has increased both ways since the pandemic.

And is a tiny fraction of what it was before Trudeau.

So this is how dedicated you are to lying to yourself to try and make the liberals sound good. If we go from 100 to 1 and then it climbs back up to two you're going to try and sell that as being some sort of increase.

It's not. Sure, you could legitimately advertise it as a 100% increase in trade over the previous year but it's still a 98% loss in trade over all

. So why are you like that? If you can't make an honest point then do you really have a point? I don't have to play cutesy games with any of my numbers and my facts and reasoning doesn't rely on looking at things from a very specific angle only.

So the question remains, why does yours?

As I said Canadian interests and inflation rates were analyzed by more than one bank and more than one economist and there's no doubt about it. We should have had far lower inflation and would have if Trudeau had made better choices. And that inflation doesn't go away by the way, sure the rate goes down but the actual amount that prices went up is still there

Again, defending the indefensible because you're more tribal than honest

Trump signed a new trade deal with us that is worse than the trade deal that we had before him. Virtually all of our trade has become worse around the globe and we have passed up tons of opportunity. Remember when Trudeau said there was no business case to sell LNG to Germany and Japan?

And if you just paid off your house a few months ago then you didn't start during the trouble times you started when times were good. You didn't buy your home 8 years ago and just pay it off, you bought it before Justin Trudeau ruined Our economy and drove housing prices through the roof.

So what you mean is that it used to be able to be done. If I kicked you out on the street as a 25 year old today and you had to go start from scratch to get a career get through your schooling go out and start earning a living and buy a home after saving up enough for a down payment it just wouldn't happen.

Once again, you're dishonesty is palpable. A small handful might get lucky enough to pull it off one way or another the vast majority will not and that's the simple truth. Meanwhile rents are sucking every nickel they make and they can't get ahead

Barquentine · February 12

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And is a tiny fraction of what it was before Trudeau.

You were speaking of India-Canadian trade.

In 2012, Canada and India traded just over $5.2 billion in merchandise

In 2014, Canada and India's bilateral trade was $6.4 billion

In 2016, India and Canada's bilateral trade was $5.62 billion

CdnFox · February 12

8 hours ago, Barquentine said:

You were speaking of India-Canadian trade.

In 2012, Canada and India traded just over $5.2 billion in merchandise

In 2014, Canada and India's bilateral trade was $6.4 billion

In 2016, India and Canada's bilateral trade was $5.62 billion

Soo... you're aware that 5.62 is a SMALLER number than 6.4 right?

And you can see by your own chart that we fell into a trade deficit with them right? We had a trade SURPLUS prior to trudeau's little act.

And you can see that while we had a couple of good years due to the pandemic restricting trade, we're almost back to a deficit again.

If your point was i'm right then great but i already knew that.

Barquentine · February 13

So wtf? You think a small surplus or deficit with India is a major problem? Our trade with them is growing and now let's hope it grows more.

Looking forward to your next missive. Respectfully yours, B.

CdnFox · February 13

28 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

So wtf? You think a small surplus or deficit with India is a major problem?

oh look who gave up trying to pretend i wasn't right and is now trying to pretend it doesn't matter that I was right

Yes, it's a problem. We need to be increasing our trade. EVERY party needs to be concerned about that. During harper our trade went up, we did new trade deals, the deals we renegotiated got better, we were moving in the right direction at a pretty decent clip and india which did not have a big trade relationship prior to harper was a good example of that.

Like all the other ones trudeau has ruined it. And that is a major problem. We are facing the consequences of those major problems right now.

The problem with you left-wing types is you can't even admit it when you've done something wrong. A 5-year-old could look at the situation right now and realize we made a mistake by not increasing foreign trade and reducing Reliance on America. But you're going to go on for 10 posts about how it's no big deal and no it never happened make etc etc.

It was a huge mistake and we will be paying for it now