Are you a man or a woman?

[User]

4 minutes ago, Scott75 said:

Seems like a classic case of transphobia.

You don't get to pretend you are above the fray of making personal comments when you are here accusing someone of transphobia... and you said someone would fit right in with the KKK earlier.

 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, User said:

The real absurdity here is that he only wants trans people to be able to identify as they like... for the vast majority of the rest of us normal people, we must accept being called cisgender. 

 

This whole issue is an exercise in hypocrisy. These same people would freak out if you were a white person who decided to identify as black.  Or a 20 year old who identified as 65 and demanded a pension and senior's discounts. Or a healthy person who identified as disabled and wanted to park wherever they liked. 

Even they would look at any of that and say "no, that's stupid".  And in fact this has come up with people who claim they they truly feel that they are black and are a black person in a white body.  They were completely pummeled by the left. 

There's not a shred of consistency in their logic or arguments, and they are absolute hypocrites. 

 

4 minutes ago, User said:

You don't get to pretend you are above the fray of making personal comments when you are here accusing someone of transphobia... and you said someone would fit right in with the KKK earlier.

 

Again we see the hypocrisy.  It's like  "THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR NAME CALLING YOU BASTARD!"  Like, they don't even see it. 

[Scott75]

On 12/16/2024 at 12:35 AM, CdnFox said:

On 12/15/2024 at 9:11 PM, Scott75 said:

First of all, it's phoenyx75, with a y, not an i. I'm honestly thinking it might be better to just switch to the name I use in 'real life', if that's an option. I've done this in another forum I'm in.

You've already got two accounts here [snip]

No, I just have this one. You certainly jump to a lot of false conclusions. I may be mistaken, but I think you were recently accusing Radiorum of having 2 accounts too. Whether it was you or someone else, I remember the person provided no evidence for that accusation either.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Scott75

[Deluge]

4 hours ago, Scott75 said:

I've certainly seen various people from both sides of this debate accuse their ideological opponents of dishonesty. I myself haven't seen any evidence of anyone -trying- to deceive anyone else. There's a very big difference between being mistaken and trying to deceive others.

I entered this thread in post #10. You responded to me in post #18.

As to your first question, for some reason, I wasn't able to participate in the poll. Perhaps that's just as well though, because given the nature of this thread, I think it would have been better to replace "I am a man" and "I identify as a man" with "I'm a cisgender man" and "I'm a transgender man". In any case, I'm a cisgender man.

As to your second question, as I told someone else (User, I believe), my definition of a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman. And yes, I know, this definition includes the word itself.  A lot of people are fine with that, but I know that some aren't and I imagine you're one of those people. If you want to know a person's biological sex and believe it wouldn't be inappropriate to ask, you can ask them that instead.

You would have chosen "I identify as something else", as you think you are a "cisgender man" when you're really just a man whose been brainwashed by trans activists. 

A woman is just a woman. Your mom is a woman. You know this because she gave birth to you, and only women can give birth to human beiings - it's how we perpetuate our species. 

I hope this helps you. 

[Deluge]

3 hours ago, Scott75 said:

I'm not even sure what that means. What I want is for people to be able to define their gender as the gender they identify with. I also think that being more accepting of people who don't fit inside the conventional norms for gender could go a long way to making trans people not feel the need for hormones/hormone blockers and surgery and just be fine with the appearance that their biological sex gives them.

What it means is that you want the trans community to define who everyone is and that's just about the stupidest thing anyone could ever want. 

Everything you're fighting for is based on the fever dreams of a few degenerates, and it won't fly here in the US. 

[Deluge]

3 hours ago, Scott75 said:

1. For starters, as I've told people in the past, there's a big difference between someone saying something that's not true and someone saying something they -know- isn't true. Insulting people because they're saying something that isn't true is the wrong way to go about showing them the error of their ways. The most likely result of insults and other flame bait material is for the entire conversation to devolve into a flame war.

2. As I've said in th e past, there is no common "trans agenda". There are transgender people, who have different ideas as to how the world should be, just like there are cisgender people who have different ideas as to how the world should be. I'm actually in the latter category.

3. You seem to be equating cross dressers with transgender people. While there was certainly a great deal of overlap back when transgender wasn't a well known term, they've since gone their separate ways for the most part, at least in places like the U.S. Learned a great deal of this from a Wikipedia article I read just now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestism

4. In any case, it -seems- that you have an issue with transgender -and- cross dressers being able to dress the way they like in public. Seems like a classic case of transphobia. In case you're not aware of the term, Wikipedia has a helpful article on the subject. Here's the introduction:

**

Transphobia consists of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards transgender people or transness in general. Transphobia can include fear, aversion, hatred, violence or anger towards people who do not conform to social gender roles.^[1][2] Transphobia is a type of prejudice and discrimination, similar to racism, sexism, or ableism,^[3] and it is closely associated with homophobia.^[4][5] People of color who are transgender experience discrimination above and beyond that which can be explained as a simple combination of transphobia and racism.^[6]

Transgender youth often experience a combination of abuse from family members, sexual harassment, and bullying or school violence.^[7] They are also disproportionately placed in foster care and welfare programs compared to their peers.^[8] Adult transgender people regularly encounter sexual violence, police violence, public ridicule, misgendering, or other forms of violence and harassment in their daily lives.^[9] These issues cause many trans people to feel unsafe in public. Other issues include healthcare discrimination, workplace discrimination or feeling under siege by conservative political or religious groups who oppose LGBT-rights laws.^[10] Discrimination and violence sometimes originates from people within the LGBT community^[11] or feminist movements.

As well as increased risk of violence and other threats, the stress created by transphobia causes negative mental health outcomes and lead to drug use disorders, running away from home (in minors), and suicide.

In much of the Western world, there has been a gradual establishment of policies combatting discrimination and supporting equal opportunity in all aspects of life since the 1990s. The trend is also taking shape in some developing nations. In addition, campaigns regarding the LGBT community are being spread around the world to improve social acceptance of nontraditional gender identities. The "Stop the Stigma" campaign by the UN is one such example.^[12] However, transphobic violence has been on the rise since 2021,^[13] accompanied with an increase in anti-trans discriminatory laws being enacted in many parts of the US and other countries.^[14][15]

**

Full article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphobia

 

1. That goes without saying. The question is, do you know you're speaking falsehoods, or are you truly ignorant? I was leaning toward the latter until I got further down in your post; now I just think you are lying. 

2. Yes there is. LGBT has an agenda, and the "T" in LGBT stands for Trans. 

There's also this link, which I've posted before: 

https://transgenderlawcenter.org/trans-agenda-for-liberation/

3. Crossdressers could also use psychological help. Any man who doesn't look and act like a man, needs their head examined. 

4. You don't read my responses, do you. I've told you perverts time and again that trannies dressing up and going out on the town is OK, just so long as they're not trying to mould society around their point of view. 

I hope this heps. 

[Legato]

3 hours ago, Scott75 said:

No, I just have this one. You certainly jump to a lot of false conclusions. I may be mistaken, but I think you were recently accusing Radiorum of having 2 accounts too. Whether it was you or someone else, I remember the person provided no evidence for that accusation either.

Thief, I identify as Scott75, please stop using my name in vain. You shall now be  "Scottish drinker of rum with 75 radio's"

[Radiorum]

On 12/21/2024 at 7:14 AM, Scott75 said:

why do people of any age feel that these things are necessary? I've come to think that it's precisely because many people who identify as trans don't feel that they can be accepted if they don't conform to gender norms and so they start to think that their best choice is to get the hormones/hormone blockers and/or surgery.

Respectfully, I disagree. I think any transgender person who undergoes transition does it to be their authentic self.

 

 

[Radiorum]

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Worked for the last 3000 years or so. 

What you are referring to is the narrow-minded, restrictive Western-Christian tradition. There's a whole lot of human history you apparently know nothing about. Transgenderism is as old as the human species.

You can read a little bit about it here:

https://www.hrc.org/resources/seven-things-about-transgender-people-that-you-didnt-know

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The only reason you want "Cis" is that you can use it as a pejorative. 

No, not everything is about you.

[Radiorum]

3 hours ago, Deluge said:

Any man who doesn't look and act like a man, needs their head examined. 

And how is that exactly? How should a man act? Is there a book "How to Act Like a Man"? Don't colour outside the lines?

It's attitudes like yours in society that drives transgender persons to despair.

3 hours ago, Deluge said:

I've told you perverts time and again that trannies dressing up and going out on the town is OK, just so long as they're not trying to mould society around their point of view. 

When I read this, I thought of other identifiable groups in the past who had to fight for their rights, and I imagine they too faced this kind of ignorance. I think you are the threat, not them.

[User]

33 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Respectfully, I disagree. I think any transgender person who undergoes transition does it to be their authentic self.

 

 

If you have to surgically alter your image to appear to be something you are not, that is not your authentic self. 

21 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

What you are referring to is the narrow-minded, restrictive Western-Christian tradition. There's a whole lot of human history you apparently know nothing about. Transgenderism is as old as the human species.

Yeah, sure, transgenderism has been around... what has not been around is the absurdity that there is no meaningful definition of male and female and that just because someone believes they are a male doesn't actually make them one. 

That ain't a western or Christian thing... that is just a human civilization thing. 
 

[Radiorum]

2 minutes ago, User said:

If you have to surgically alter your image to appear to be something you are not, that is not your authentic self.

How would you know? That is only your opinion, and it is prejudiced and ignorant.

I've tried to explain this before, but I will try again. Your identity is not in your body, but in your brain/mind. 

If your leg is amputated, are you still you? 

I belong to another forum and on it, just today, I read an autobiographical except from a transgender person who underwent the surgery, and they described the euphoria of finally being in the "right" body.

I've asked this before, but I will ask again (try to answer thoughtfully, not knee-jerk):

To all cisgender males - imagine you have all the same thought processes and feelings, the same motivations, interpretations of the world, the same reactions to things, the same identity - but you have breasts and a vagina. How would that mess you up?

To all cisgender females -  imagine you have all the same thought processes and feelings, the same motivations, interpretations of the world, the same reactions to things, the same identity - but you have a penis. How would that mess you up?

 

[User]

1 minute ago, Radiorum said:

How would you know? That is only your opinion, and it is prejudiced and ignorant.

Because you had to alter yourself surgically... that is no longer authentic. 
 

2 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I've tried to explain this before, but I will try again. Your identity is not in your body, but in your brain/mind. 

You are talking about alerting your body. 

3 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

If your leg is amputated, are you still you? 

If my leg is amputated, I will appear to be a person with one leg... I am not trying to present myself as something I am not. 

5 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I belong to another forum and on it, just today, I read an autobiographical except from a transgender person who underwent the surgery, and they described the euphoria of finally being in the "right" body.

OK. What is your point?

They are not in a different body. They merely altered their appearance. 

6 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I've asked this before, but I will ask again (try to answer thoughtfully, not knee-jerk):

I answer everything here honestly, except when people are jerking me around, then I will give appropriate responses. 

7 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

To all cisgender males - imagine you have all the same thought processes and feelings, the same motivations, interpretations of the world, the same reactions to things, the same identity - but you have breasts and a vagina. How would that mess you up?

I soundly reject the use of the term cisgender. You are either male or female. You don't need a made-up word. 

I am well aware of the mental disorders around gender dysphoria. We were not talking about how messed up someone is with that. I agree. That is messed up. Just like having Dissociative Identity Disorder would be messed up. Just because you have 5 personalities in your brain, doesn't actually make you 5 different people, genders, races, etc... or whatever your personalities think you are. 

Oh man... that would be a mess, imagine if one personality you were a black man and the other a white woman... (when you are actually a white man) would you need to get surgery every time the other one showed up so you could be your "authentic" self? Is it blackface if you paint yourself black to look like your authentic black self? I wonder if its cool to use the N word then...  

Altering your body is just that. Alterations. It doesn't change your body to be something it isn't anymore than my dressing up like a cat for Halloween makes me a cat. 

Your next question is redundant. Same answer. 

 

[Radiorum]

40 minutes ago, User said:

meaningful definition of male and female and that just because someone believes they are a male doesn't actually make them one. 

Why are you so obsessed with this? I hope you look inside and find some answers.

 

[NAME REMOVED]

7 hours ago, Scott75 said:

No, I just have this one. You certainly jump to a lot of false conclusions. I may be mistaken, but I think you were recently accusing Radiorum of having 2 accounts too. Whether it was you or someone else, I remember the person provided no evidence for that accusation either.

CdnFox is a bad faith actor, and he is compromised by foreign agents. The sooner you stop arguing with him, the better it is for your mental health.

6 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Why are you so obsessed with this? I hope you look inside and find some answers.

 

He is in the closet, and projecting. he is battling himself. Freud would have had a field day, with him.

[Radiorum]

16 minutes ago, User said:

Because you had to alter yourself surgically... that is no longer authentic. 

Your lack of comprehension could win you awards.

17 minutes ago, User said:

I am not trying to present myself as something I am not. 

Transgender persons do not transition in order to "present themselves" but to BE.

18 minutes ago, User said:

OK. What is your point?

That maybe you should pay attention to the people this actually affects.

21 minutes ago, User said:

I am well aware of the mental disorders around gender dysphoria. We were not talking about how messed up someone is with that. I agree. That is messed up. Just like having Dissociative Identity Disorder would be messed up. Just because you have 5 personalities in your brain, doesn't actually make you 5 different people, genders, races, etc... or whatever your personalities think you are. 

It sounds like you're judging instead of understanding.

 

 

 

[Scott75]

On 12/16/2024 at 7:46 AM, User said:

On 12/16/2024 at 3:17 AM, Scott75 said:

On 11/16/2024 at 1:40 PM, User said:

On 11/16/2024 at 4:58 AM, Scott75 said:

On 11/10/2024 at 9:12 PM, Deluge said:

and YOU are a troll.

Personal attacks, the last bastion of those who have no substantive argument to make.

Is this a joke? You just got done saying the poster would fit right in with KKK.

No, I didn't. Deluge used a term that is generally considered to be a slur for transgender people and I pointed out that the KKK tend to use slur terms for people they dislike as well. Deluge, on the other hand, clearly used an insulting term on me. 

Yes, you went on to say exactly that:

"It certainly looks like in some ways, you might fit right in."

I bet you didn't even notice the difference between what I actually said and what you said I said. Saying that in -some- ways a person might "fit right in" with the KKK is not saying that they would fit right in all ways, and I'm certainly glad that Deluge made it clear that he's -not- a fan of the KKK. The reason I said this to begin with was in large part because of comments such as the following one from Deluge's post #371:

**

The key now is to get the trannies, and all the other radical activists, back in their lane so America can recover from the woke infection. 

**

As I've said elsewhere, tranny and its plural trannies is a word that is now considered a slur by a fair amount of organizations:

**

Tranny is an offensive and derogatory slur for a transgender individual,^[1] often specifically a transgender woman.^[2]

During the early 2000s, there was some confusion and debate over whether the term was considered as a slur, was considered acceptable, or a reappropriated term of unity and pride, but by 2017, the term had been banned by several major media stylebooks and was considered hate speech by Facebook.^[3][4]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranny

 

The KKK is also fond of using slur words for members of the LGBT community, so they certainly have that in common. My actual response to Deluge's comment was the following in post #413:

**

I'm sure the KKK said similar things about black people back in the day too. It's so easy to just say that some other group is wrong and use whatever means is necessary to try to put them "back in their lane", as you say. What's hard is to actually try to understand the other group's reasoning.

**

His response, in turn, was the following, in post #443:

**

The KKK hates black people and used to murder them, I just want the LGBT community to stay in their lane, and YOU are a troll.

**

It was only then that I pointed out that the KKK didn't just hate blacks, but also the LGTB community, and in -that- way, it looked like he'd fit right in. For anyone who'd like to see exactly what I said, the post in question is post #480. Now, there is one point I will concede- perhaps Deluge doesn't hate the LGTB community. But this talk of putting them "back in their lane" sounds -so- very similar to the types of things that the KKK and other hate groups would say about blacks that I found the similarities too glaring to overlook.

Edited December 23, 2024 by Scott75

[User]

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

Why are you so obsessed with this? I hope you look inside and find some answers.

 

I am no more obsessed with this than you and others are with pushing it on me. 

 

[User]

57 minutes ago, Scott75 said:

I bet you didn't even notice the difference between what I actually said and what you said I said.

I quoted you. 

 

[User]

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

Your lack of comprehension could win you awards.

How so?

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

Transgender persons do not transition in order to "present themselves" but to BE.

Their motives are irrelevant to reality. 

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

That maybe you should pay attention to the people this actually affects.

I do. 

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

It sounds like you're judging instead of understanding.

Sounds like you are just dodging me picking apart all your responses. 

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Radiorum said:

What you are referring to is the narrow-minded, restrictive Western-Christian tradition.

Right, because there's been a western Christian tradition for  3,000 years.

There's nothing narrow about it. And it's as old as man and woman itself. What you are doing is as questionable as claiming that calling a 65-year-old 65 years old is a narrow-minded restrictive western christian tradition. No, it is an accurate description. Trying to claim that people define what time means on a personal basis  (shut up einstein, i'll deal with you later) or that   65 years can be 53 years if someone identifies that way  is patently insane.  Saying that you personally identify that the sun comes up in the west and set in the east because that's how you prefer to see it would be nuts.  Saying your black when you're white because you identify as black will get your ass kicked by black people. 

And you have utterly ignored and failed to deal with that point in ANY of your replies. In any of your accounts either. 

 

So let's get real. What we're talking about is not restrictive tradition. What we're talking about here is you attempting to rationalize the irrational. 

Here's what you CAN say if you like and still have it be true. 

1)  some people feel more comfortable relating to a gender that does not match the sex their body is.  That's fine. 

2) to live a happier life some of those people choose to live in such a way that they mimick the sex that matches the gender they associate with.   That's true. 

3) in most cases this improves their quality of life which is reason enough for compassionate people to tolerate and even participate in the lie TO A POINT.  And in some cases this is a medical necessity and failing to do so puts people at risk and we should consider "accommodating the to the point of hardship", which is a legal term that is nornally applied to those with  illness or disability being accommodated by things like wheelchair ramps and such, up to the point where it imposes significant cost or violates other 's rights significantly.  

You can say all that with a perfectly straight face and pass any lie detector test in the world. 

What you can't say is that gender is sex, or that man is woman. Nor can you say that it 's reasonable or just to pretend that a trans woman who is biologically male is the same thing as a bio woman. They're not.  Nor is it reasonable to let them compete in womens' sports, or to allow children to make final and permanent decisions about altering themselves physically etc etc. 

And it is beyond stupid to demand that people refer to a man as a woman while you're unwilling and agressively insistant on calling straight people "cis" because that's what YOU believe to be true. 

So take the rest of your crap and shove it up your ideology  

[Deluge]

12 hours ago, Radiorum said:

1. And how is that exactly? How should a man act? Is there a book "How to Act Like a Man"? Don't colour outside the lines?

2. It's attitudes like yours in society that drives transgender persons to despair.

3. When I read this, I thought of other identifiable groups in the past who had to fight for their rights, and I imagine they too faced this kind of ignorance. I think you are the threat, not them.

1. Nope, no books. Why do you ask? Are you questioning your sexuality? Did someone tell you that maybe you should wear lipstick and put on a dress? 

2. It's attitudes like mine that keep sanity at the forefront. For some stupid reason you want lunatics driving the bus. Make no mistake, trans people are not right in the head. It's why they want everyone else to bend the knee to their demands. 

3. I'm a threat to the trans agenda, and that makes me happy. 

 

[Scott75]

On 12/16/2024 at 7:53 AM, User said:

On 12/16/2024 at 4:12 AM, Scott75 said:

On 12/14/2024 at 9:58 AM, User said:

So... if you change all normal people to cisgender and then label all trans people as male and female... everyone will know they are trans still.

This isn't about changing anyone, this is about what labels we use for different categories of people. Secondly, I'm not advocating that terms like cisgender be used all the time, quite the reverse, I think they should be used sparingly, in situations where knowing whether someone is cisgender or transgender is important. The same goes for people who are transgender. In other cases, simply using the gender a person identifies with is sufficient.

Yes, you certainly are trying to change normal people to be labeled cisgender.

Labelling a person doesn't change the person. "Man" and "woman" are labels too. Terms like cisgender and transgender are just necessary to differentiate between people who may both identify as being of the male or female gender but whose biology doesn't necessarily match their gender identification. In many circumstances, such differentiation is unecessary. As I've said previously, I've lived in Mexico for 3 years now and I haven't used the spanish term for cisgender once. I didn't even know what it was until I looked it up recently.

[User]

3 minutes ago, Scott75 said:

Labelling a person doesn't change the person. "Man" and "woman" are labels too. Terms like cisgender and transgender are just necessary to differentiate between people who may both identify as being of the male or female gender but whose biology doesn't necessarily match their gender identification. In many circumstances, such differentiation is unecessary. As I've said previously, I've lived in Mexico for 3 years now and I haven't used the spanish term for cisgender once. I didn't even know what it was until I looked it up recently.

No, terms like cisgender are not necessary. Just because some fringe group of people want to pretend to be something they are not, and label themselves something they are not, doesn't put the onus on the rest of society to change for them. 

We already have a term for what those people are, its called trans. 



 

[Deluge]

12 hours ago, Scott75 said:

I bet you didn't even notice the difference between what I actually said and what you said I said. Saying that in -some- ways a person might "fit right in" with the KKK is not saying that they would fit right in all ways, and I'm certainly glad that Deluge made it clear that he's -not- a fan of the KKK. The reason I said this to begin with was in large part because of comments such as the following one from Deluge's post #371:

**

The key now is to get the trannies, and all the other radical activists, back in their lane so America can recover from the woke infection. 

**

As I've said elsewhere, tranny and its plural trannies is a word that is now considered a slur by a fair amount of organizations:

**

Tranny is an offensive and derogatory slur for a transgender individual,^[1] often specifically a transgender woman.^[2]

During the early 2000s, there was some confusion and debate over whether the term was considered as a slur, was considered acceptable, or a reappropriated term of unity and pride, but by 2017, the term had been banned by several major media stylebooks and was considered hate speech by Facebook.^[3][4]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranny

 

The KKK is also fond of using slur words for members of the LGBT community, so they certainly have that in common. My actual response to Deluge's comment was the following in post #413:

**

I'm sure the KKK said similar things about black people back in the day too. It's so easy to just say that some other group is wrong and use whatever means is necessary to try to put them "back in their lane", as you say. What's hard is to actually try to understand the other group's reasoning.

**

His response, in turn, was the following, in post #443:

**

The KKK hates black people and used to murder them, I just want the LGBT community to stay in their lane, and YOU are a troll.

**

It was only then that I pointed out that the KKK didn't just hate blacks, but also the LGTB community, and in -that- way, it looked like he'd fit right in. For anyone who'd like to see exactly what I said, the post in question is post #480. Now, there is one point I will concede- perhaps Deluge doesn't hate the LGTB community. But this talk of putting them "back in their lane" sounds -so- very similar to the types of things that the KKK and other hate groups would say about blacks that I found the similarities too glaring to overlook.

"Back in their lane" means LGBTQ keeps their shit to themselves: No pole dancing in front of kids, and no drag queen story hour with kids. No homosexual/transsexual novels or storybooks in libraries; no pronouns; no gender identity bullshit; no men or boys in women's and girl's bathrooms. No changing the entire bathroom structure to suit the trans agenda. In essence, no left-wing bullshit in mainstream society. 

I hope that helps.