"Hybrid" Cars

Spike22 · February 23, 2007

I have bought a Lincoln Navigator and bought new non energy saving lightbulbs what the hell kind of free economy have we here? HYbrid cars barf. Give me a gas guzzlin', fart belchin'[, kick ass, bad for the environment vehicle, I only have so many years to live and make this a craphole for my grandkids!

Wilber · February 23, 2007

Again, diesels have always produced 20% less CO2 and much less CO than gas engines. CO2 is the major product of greenhouse gas from vehicles.

You make this sound like a big deal when in reality it isn't.

You must remember the average mechanical efficiency of an internal combustion engine is around a LOWLY 20%.

So your 20% CO2 and less CO is almost meaningless as their still is a tremendous amount of pollutants being produced for basically nothing along with an 80% waste of energy per litre or gallon or whatever.

I think a vehicle that only releases one gallon of hydrocarbons into the atmosphere to move one person forty miles instead of a vehicle that releases two gallons to move him the same distance is a big deal.

Leafless · February 23, 2007

I think a vehicle that only releases one gallon of hydrocarbons into the atmosphere to move one person forty miles instead of a vehicle that releases two gallons to move him the same distance is a big deal.

You are only assuming this based on the fact that diesel fuel produces more energy (BTU's) per gallon.

If your diesel fuel vehicle gets 35 miles to the gallon and my gasoline vehicle gets 35 miles to the gallon, who's engine is the most energy efficient?

Answer: The gasoline powered engine is.

There are other factors that don't make diesel engines attractive.

1. They are heavier.

2. Higher initial engine cost and overall vehicle cost.

3. Lower high end performance.

4. Diesel fuel gels in cold temperatures and you have to wait for diesel glow plugs to warm up combustion chambers before you can start the vehicle.

Saturn · February 23, 2007

Diesel and oil is not where cars should be going. Hybrids are an excellent way to provide power and minimize waste by converting a good part of it into electricity. With high gas prices and environmental concerns, it's no wonder that Japanese and European car manufacturers are making a killing, while the NA gas-guzzling producers are down in the gutter. Subsidizing the high cost of hybrids can only encourage manufacturers to produce more efficient vehicles and to further improve efficient technologies. In 5-10 years they'll come down in price and will provide substantially cleaner and cheaper modes of transportation than current full gasoline/diesel engines.

Wilber · February 23, 2007

I think a vehicle that only releases one gallon of hydrocarbons into the atmosphere to move one person forty miles instead of a vehicle that releases two gallons to move him the same distance is a big deal.

You are only assuming this based on the fact that diesel fuel produces more energy (BTU's) per gallon.

If your diesel fuel vehicle gets 35 miles to the gallon and my gasoline vehicle gets 35 miles to the gallon, who's engine is the most energy efficient?

Answer: The gasoline powered engine is.

There are other factors that don't make diesel engines attractive.

1. They are heavier.

2. Higher initial engine cost and overall vehicle cost.

3. Lower high end performance.

4. Diesel fuel gels in cold temperatures and you have to wait for diesel glow plugs to warm up combustion chambers before you can start the vehicle.

Your comparable gas engine does not get as good mileage.

Diesels

Last longer.

Aluminum is finding its way into more diesels. The Mercedes Bluetec is an all aluminum engine. It's weight isn't much more than the gas model.

Their cost when produced in high volume for passenger vehicles is either not higher or only marginally higher. VW isn't selling a diesel here in 07 because their Blutec engine won't be ready till next year but comparing 06 models, the diesel option was $1700 in a Golf. That is in a market where they are the only guy on the block. If you want to buy an affordable diesel car you have to buy it from them. The gas model was rated at 29 MPH city, 40 MPH hwy. The diesel was rated at 46 city, 61 hwy. True there are gas powered cars that get better mileage but in this case we are comparing apples and apples. A 2L gas engine versus a 1.9L turbo diesel in the same car. If you drive much it won't take long to get that $1700 back. Hence the great popularity of diesels in Europe, even though ULSD is a bit more expensive than regular gas.

How many people drive their cars at the high end of their performance range and keep their licenses for long. Even so the Le Mans 24 Hours was won outright last year by an Audi R10 powered by a twin turbo diesel. The E320 Blutec diesel is faster 0-100 KPH than the equivalent gas model. Diesels excel at low and mid range torque where most of our driving is done. For heavy duty vehicles gas engines aren't in the same league.

You do have to wait for a few seconds to start a diesel in cold weather but if it is above 10 degrees I don't have to wait at all with my VW and I have never had to wait more than 10 seconds for the wait light to go out regardless of the temperature. It's not an issue where I live however I would plug in a diesel before I would a gas engined car.

Time to get up to speed on the latest diesel technology and remember, diesels are years behind gas engines when it comes to the amount of R&D that has gone into them.

Leafless · February 23, 2007

Wilbur

You just won't see diesels in North America.

Reason: They don't meet U.S. emission standards, and if that's the case you probably won't see many in Canada due to the high vehicle cost and lack of gas stations selling diesel.

We'll keep our traditional gas engines that are a lot more suitable for for good performance and cold weather conditions and reasonable vehicle cost.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/10/for...ars-in-america/

Wilber · February 23, 2007

We'll see.

Wilber · February 24, 2007

After ULSD

geoffrey · February 24, 2007

You just won't see diesels in North America.

I have two friends with Jetta TDI's and they love them. Not much issue in finding fuel when you can go 1000 kms on a tank. I think Diesel is compatible with the way things are, I don't know though, I'd take the performance of a gasoline engine anyday, the TDI's are very slow to respond and passing on the highway is dangerous at best.

The North American attitude is a bigger barrier than logistics.

PolyNewbie · February 24, 2007

We should have electric cars. Better torque, better environment. Quieter. Last longer. Simpler.

Wilber · February 24, 2007

We should have electric cars. Better torque, better environment. Quieter. Last longer. Simpler.

Good for town cars but no good for long distance travel with today's technology. Right now the best bet for a good all round electric is probably fuel cell technology, also somewhere in the future.

kimmy · February 24, 2007

http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/performance.php

Lotus Elise body

+ 250hp electric motor

+ 1000 pounds of lithium-ion battery packs

= 250 mile range, 130mph top speed, 0-60 in 4 seconds.

-k

Wilber · February 24, 2007

Cool.

Great performance but:

How fast can you drive it and still get that 250 mile range?

Even if you do get 250 miles you have to wait four hours for a full charge.

What else can it carry after you put 1000 lbs of batteries that little two seater? Add that 1000 lbs of batteries to the 70 lb motor and the weight is almost as much as the 5.9 Cummins and a full tank of diesel in my truck.

I like it though. Looks like they've got something going there.

geoffrey · February 24, 2007

We should have electric cars. Better torque, better environment. Quieter. Last longer. Simpler.
Good for town cars but no good for long distance travel with today's technology. Right now the best bet for a good all round electric is probably fuel cell technology, also somewhere in the future.

And that they essientially burn coal in most N.A. markets.......

The toxic waste from the batteries is also a major concern.

PolyNewbie · February 24, 2007

Wilbur:Good for town cars but no good for long distance travel with today's technology. Right now the best bet for a good all round electric is probably fuel cell technology, also somewhere in the future.

I think the batterys are already here and have been for some time. I watched a movie on this and there was a couple - married scientists who came up with a battery.

August1991 · March 20, 2007

For me, the litmus test of a government going through the motions of an environmental policy as a populist measure is "hybrid car subsidies".

This Harper federal government has gone one step better. This is how the CBC describes its subsidy programme:

A performance-based rebate program will offer up to $2,000 for the purchase of a new fuel-efficient or efficient alternative-fuel vehicle.

As Leonardo di Caprio said to Kate Winslett, I'll have to get you to write that one down. What the heck is an "efficient alternative-fuel vehicle"? A bicycle?

Or is it one of those newfangled hybrid cars that di Caprio and Ignatieff drive. Am I paying for Ignatieff's car (and the cars of other "cool" people)? Why?

Please don't talk to me about early adopters. Government bureaucrats know nothing about making risky investments. If they did, they wouldn't use other people's money (no strings attached) to take risks.

First, the government should not try to subsidize so-called new inventions, not this way. An honest politician should be suspect of anyone claiming to have a sexy and cool invention.

Second, this particular subsidy is pathetic. It costs the government little, gets a headline, gives a few rich people some money and probably does more harm than good for the environment. There are certainly better ways to achieve the same goal.

sharkman · March 20, 2007

We are getting what we deserve. A shallow ploy which will get the desired result out of most Canadians who live and breathe the Global Warming (or is it Global climate change now?) religion. They are easily tricked because they long ago stopped thinking and analyzing for themselves and by now cling dearly to the government tit.

To get a majority government out of Canadians, you simply spend spend spend, and steal the Liberal platform.

jdobbin · March 20, 2007

To get a majority government out of Canadians, you simply spend spend spend, and steal the Liberal platform.

But won't stop you voting for them?

sharkman · March 20, 2007

To get a majority government out of Canadians, you simply spend spend spend, and steal the Liberal platform.

But won't stop you voting for them?

The hope is that they will smarten up once they get a majority.

White Doors · March 20, 2007

??

I like this policy. Using the tax system to encourage fule efficient vehicles?

What is wrong with that? Also, it's not just for hybrids. it's for fuel efficient vehicles, period. ie: The Chevy Impala get's it.

Trucks are not included in this category and are not subject to this.

They are also setting aside money to get old clunkers off the road. About time. They are the worst.

Wilber · March 20, 2007

??
I like this policy. Using the tax system to encourage fule efficient vehicles?

What is wrong with that? Also, it's not just for hybrids. it's for fuel efficient vehicles, period. ie: The Chevy Impala get's it.

Trucks are not included in this category and are not subject to this.

They are also setting aside money to get old clunkers off the road. About time. They are the worst.

I tend to agree, the tax charged on gas guzzlers will help offset to a large degree the cost of subsidizing more efficient vehicles. Trucks are exempt, so those who have a real need for them such as business and towing won't get hit. Those who feel they need a great honkin truck based 4X4 SUV to haul their kids around can pay the tax or get what they should have bought in the first place, a long wheelbase minivan.

B. Max · March 20, 2007

Trucks are exempt, so those who have a real need for them such as business and towing won't get hit. Those who feel they need a great honkin truck based 4X4 SUV to haul their kids around can pay the tax or get what they should have bought in the first place, a long wheelbase minivan.

How is one going to pull a fith wheeler with a mini van. The pick up plants in this country could end up closing. Along with all the holiday trailer plants. If anything this little commie experiment will keep the older ones on the roads for many more years than they might have other wise been. This country could start looking like cuba.

guyser · March 20, 2007

This country could start looking like cuba.

Not quite , ours will have rust .

White Doors · March 20, 2007

How is one going to pull a fith wheeler with a mini van. The pick up plants in this country could end up closing. Along with all the holiday trailer plants. If anything this little commie experiment will keep the older ones on the roads for many more years than they might have other wise been. This country could start looking like cuba.

Trucks (pick ups) are exempt.