Some say religion has no place in politics. This is why they are deceived and dead wrong.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

But those that don't believe in the separation of church and state, would have no choice but to accept it.

What exactly does "separation of church and state" mean?  

[SkyHigh]

Just now, blackbird said:

What exactly does "separation of church and state" mean?  

For the purpose of this conversation, that the backwards laws of Moses have no place in a free society 

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

For the purpose of this conversation, that the backwards laws of Moses have no place in a free society 

Could you explain that please?  

[SkyHigh]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Could you explain that please?  

No sure how to be more clear 

[blackbird]

29 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

No sure how to be more clear 

You have said nothing.  Just referred to the law of Moses as being backward.  With no explanation.  What is backward about it?

Edited October 16 by blackbird

[SkyHigh]

50 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You have said nothing.  Just referred to the law of Moses as being backward.  With no explanation.  What is backward about it?

Stoning children and adulterers, not eating shrimp, all gods talk about what I can and cannot do with my penis. These and most of the laws of Moses are backwards and nobody in their right mind would think they should be the law of the land in a free society. You want a theocracy, move to Saudi Arabia.

[blackbird]

49 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Stoning children and adulterers, not eating shrimp, all gods talk about what I can and cannot do with my penis. These and most of the laws of Moses are backwards and nobody in their right mind would think they should be the law of the land in a free society. You want a theocracy, move to Saudi Arabia.

That is not the Ten Commandments.  Those are laws that only applied to Israel several thousand years ago.  They have nothing to do with Christianity which began 2,000 years ago.  This shows your complete ignorance.

Who is advocating stoning children or adulterers, or not eating shrimp?  Tell us who.  You are cherry picking something out of the Old Testament which Christians know is just recorded history that only applied to Israel at that time in history.  That does not apply today or have anything to do with Christianity.

The Ten Commandments were given to Moses and are a different matter.  Some of those commandments are repeated in the New Testament and are eternal commands that nobody would disagree with.  Some of them are enshrined in law centuries ago because they are universally accepted.  Thou shall not steal, thou shall not kill, thou shall not covet thy neighbour's property or wife, etc.  Who would in their right mind disagree with that?  That is where our laws on those things came from.  Also God created man and woman and told them to go forth an multiply.  The Bible teaches the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman.   Nobody in their right mind agrees with teaching children they can change their sex.  This is wrong from every level.  Christian oppose this kind of ideology being brainwashed into minds of young kids in schools.  It is absolutely right for Christians to oppose that.  It is also right for Christians to oppose the killing of pre-born babies.   That is not trying to impose a theocracy.  It is just the right thing to do.

You sadly don't know anything at all about Christianity or the Bible.  I have often seen people like you cherry pick something out of the Old Testament and try to use it to smear Christianity.  It is really sad.  I feel sorry for you.

You said "You want a theocracy, move to Saudi Arabia." 

Again you are lying through your teeth.

I never advocated a theocracy and don't think any normal Christian would.

Wanting sensible laws is the purpose of government.  Everyone wants to see law and order.  That is all that talking about Biblical principles refers to.  It does not mean Christians want a theocratic dictatorship.  Stop listening to radical Satan worshipers and anarchist lefty liberals.  You are brainwashed with a false view of Christianity.  

Edited October 16 by blackbird

[SkyHigh]

40 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That is not the Ten Commandments.  Those are laws that only applied to Israel several thousand years ago.  They have nothing to do with Christianity which began 2,000 years ago.  This shows your complete ignorance.

Who is advocating stoning children or adulterers, or not eating shrimp?  Tell us who.  You are cherry picking something out of the Old Testament which Christians know is just recorded history that only applied to Israel at that time in history.  That does not apply today or have anything to do with Christianity.

The Ten Commandments were given to Moses and are a different matter.  Some of those commandments are repeated in the New Testament and are eternal commands that nobody would disagree with.  Some of them are enshrined in law centuries ago because they are universally accepted.  Thou shall not steal, thou shall not kill, thou shall not covet thy neighbour's property or wife, etc.  Who would in their right mind disagree with that?  That is where our laws on those things came from.  Also God created man and woman and told them to go forth an multiply.  The Bible teaches the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman.   Nobody in their right mind agrees with teaching children they can change their sex.  This is wrong from every level.  Christian oppose this kind of ideology being brainwashed into minds of young kids in schools.  It is absolutely right for Christians to oppose that.  It is also right for Christians to oppose the killing of pre-born babies.   That is not trying to impose a theocracy.  It is just the right thing to do.

You sadly don't know anything at all about Christianity or the Bible.  I have often seen people like you cherry pick something out of the Old Testament and try to use it to smear Christianity.  It is really sad.  I feel sorry for you.

You said "You want a theocracy, move to Saudi Arabia." 

Again you are lying through your teeth.

I never advocated a theocracy and don't think any normal Christian would.

Wanting sensible laws is the purpose of government.  Everyone wants to see law and order.  That is all that talking about Biblical principles refers to.  It does not mean Christians want a theocratic dictatorship.  Stop listening to radical Satan worshipers and anarchist lefty liberals.  You are brainwashed with a false view of Christianity.  

Oh ya, I forgot, you only follow the rules of the Bible that fit the interpretation that other people have told to believe.

Again, we do not have the same method to find truth. I use logic and reason , your Bible teaches the exact opposite. There are many examples of this, here's one Proverbs 3:5-6

[blackbird]

9 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Oh ya, I forgot, you only follow the rules of the Bible that fit the interpretation that other people have told to believe.

Not true.  You are making up things again.

Christian denominations have common beliefs about what the Bible teaches in many things.  You can read those beliefs in church confessions and statements of faith.  You can google them and see for yourself.  What people believe has to be backed up with the correct interpretation of the Bible.

12 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Again, we do not have the same method to find truth. I use logic and reason , your Bible teaches the exact opposite.

That is nonsense.  Again you make a broad silly claim without any basis.  

What truth do you have that is the opposite of what the Bible teaches?  What is the source of such a truth?

 

[SkyHigh]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Not true.  You are making up things again.

Christian denominations have common beliefs about what the Bible teaches in many things.  You can read those beliefs in church confessions and statements of faith.  You can google them and see for yourself.  What people believe has to be backed up with the correct interpretation of the Bible.

That is nonsense.  Again you make a broad silly claim without any basis.  

What truth do you have that is the opposite of what the Bible teaches?  What is the source of such a truth?

 

We've had this conversation too many times, you either ignore what I say or just deny science outright.

Your own definition of faith "the belief in things unseen" explains everything or just read the verse I just wrote. You know you can actually read the Bible yourself and not just rely on what charlatans tell you I says

Honest question, have you ever read the Bible cover to cover, on your own? Please answer that 

[CITIZEN_2015]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Saying it is private means what?   

Means it is between you and your God. None of my business to believe in what you believe.

[CITIZEN_2015]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

 

When you say separation of religion and state, what exactly do you mean?  Explain that.  Are you trying to ban people from speaking about certain things?

You have the right to talk about your beliefs and equally I have the right to talk against it. None of us has the right to take action against the other or try to impose his beliefs on the others. 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, SkyHigh said:

Honest question, have you ever read the Bible cover to cover, on your own? Please answer that 

I have read most of it but not all books of the Old Testament.  There are some books that are difficult I admit.  But I do understand that some books in the Old Testament are historical in nature and everything cannot be taken to apply to Christianity today.  There is no stoning of people in Christianity.

I have studied countless articles in commentaries on subjects in the Bible.  I have studied many booklets, and written material and listened to countless sermons in several different churches on central subjects of the Bible over the last 44 years.   Unless the Holy Spirit teaches them what it said, they won't learn anything.  So your question doesn't really prove a lot.  There are 66 books of the Bible and modern versions are corrupt and based on corrupt manuscripts.  I have ample proof that in English only the King James Bible (1611) is accurate and trustworthy.

So reading the Bible from cover to cover doesn't necessarily prove anything because people often don't understand what they read or it doesn't sink in.  Doctrines sometimes take guidance from Bible teachers or books to fully understand.  I have lots of information in other theology books as well written by godly men that have a lot of teaching that is backed up by the Bible.  The Bible cannot be interpreted as just one book.  It is impossible to understand many things in the Bible without some help from books or teachers.  One can learn a lot by just reading the Bible, but to really understand certain things requires some guidance by theological books or books that expound certain themes and doctrines.  I can find the answer to a lot of things and find the scripture verses to back them up. I have spent a lot of time studying things. There is lots I don't know I admit. 

But I know some of the basics about how to understand what parts apply to Christianity and what parts in the Old Testament do not apply to Christianity.  It is not as simple as some people think.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Means it is between you and your God. None of my business to believe in what you believe.

Nobody said it was.  You don't understand the world we live in.  Knowledge about anything is communicated from one person to another.  How do you think schools, colleges, and universities work.  People learn from the teachers and professors.  Everything you know had to come from someone else whether it was in an institution or a book or paper.

Nobody said you are required to believe what I believe just because I said something.

At the same time, what I say might be the truth, whether you believe it or not.

You seem to have the idea that everyone's speech should be controlled and you should not have to hear anything you don't believe or agree with..  That is how Ayatollah's or dictators think.

In Canada we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion.  You don't accept that.  Why are you here?

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You have the right to talk about your beliefs and equally I have the right to talk against it. None of us has the right to take action against the other or try to impose his beliefs on the others. 

I never said I have the right to impose anything.  That is just your twisted way of thinking.

[SkyHigh]

57 minutes ago, blackbird said:

But I know some of the basics about how to understand what parts apply to Christianity and what parts in the Old Testament do not apply to Christianity.  It is not as simple as some people think

Wait, are you saying you're understanding of how the old testament relates to Christianity is better than Christ? Because Jesus is pretty clear that the old testament is the inerrant word of God, all that "laws of the profits" and "every jot and riddle" stuff 

You're a blasphemer. Repent! Repent!

P.S though you refuse to even look at the evidence, science has already disproven , Genesis, Exodus, tower of Babel, in fact most of the old testament. It's disproven many things in the new testament as well but scholars do tend to acknowledge the historical spirit that the authors attempted to portray when putting oral traditions to paper. 

P.S.S the idea that any English translation is an accurate description of the original texts is unfounded. If you want to claim any kind of true understanding you must read Hebrew, Aramaic or at least Greek.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, SkyHigh said:

Wait, are you saying you're understanding of how the old testament relates to Christianity is better than Christ? Because Jesus is pretty clear that the old testament is the inerrant word of God, all that "laws of the profits" and "every jot and riddle" stuff 

You're a blasphemer. Repent! Repent!

You're hilarious now.  Of course what Jesus said is absolutely true.  Of course the Old Testament is inerrant.  I never suggested it wasn't.  The question is how you interpret the vast number of things in the Bible.  That requires some study and takes time.  Not every thing is simple or black and white.  That's all I meant.  

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, SkyHigh said:

P.S though you refuse to even look at the evidence, science has already disproven , Genesis, Exodus, tower of Babel, in fact most of the old testament. It's disproven many things in the new testament as well but scholars do tend to acknowledge the historical spirit that the authors attempted to portray when putting oral traditions to paper. 

That requires more time and I don't have it tonight.

1 hour ago, SkyHigh said:

P.S.S the idea that any English translation is an accurate description of the original texts is unfounded. If you want to claim any kind of true understanding you must read Hebrew, Aramaic or at least Greek.

I have taken a particular interest in the versions issue and was convinced the KJV 1611 is the inerrant, preserved word of God.  I have read a lot of information on it and am studying a book on the versions right now and have been for some time.  But I don't have time now to get into it in detail.  Maybe tomorrow.  There is convincing evidence that the KJV 1611 is the absolutely accurate inspired English translation of the original manuscripts which no longer exist.  Leave that for another day.

 

[SkyHigh]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You're hilarious now.  Of course what Jesus said is absolutely true.  Of course the Old Testament is inerrant.  I never suggested it wasn't.  The question is how you interpret the vast number of things in the Bible.  That requires some study and takes time.  Not every thing is simple or black and white.  That's all I meant.  

Ok, by what method do you discern what is or is not relevant to your brand of christianity?

[SkyHigh]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That requires more time and I don't have it tonight

We have already spent enough time on this and you have openly admitted that you have no interest in looking at anything that those trained in their respective disciplines and instead comfort yourself with the pontifications of the con artists at places like creation.com, 

10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There is convincing evidence that the KJV 1611 is the absolutely accurate inspired translation

Pure conjecture, there are and have been Jewish scholars going over the original Hebrew texts to fully understand what the writers meant, for thousands of years, there are university courses both in secular and religious institutions where people study Greek and Aramaic for years. 

But you think because you read a book or two, you can know the correct translation of the word of God and it happens to be in the in the only language you know? The hubris and complete lack of humility you have to make that kind of statement is so brazen and against the teachings of Jesus, that I don't see how you can call yourself a Christian.

[CITIZEN_2015]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

 

In Canada we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion.  You don't accept that.  Why are you here?

I have been living in Canada most likely longer than you have been and nobody here in this advanced society likes you or your backward attitudes so why don't you get the hell out of Canada.

Edited October 17 by CITIZEN_2015

[ExFlyer]

4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I have been living in Canada most likely longer than you have been and nobody here in this advanced society likes you or your backward attitudes so why don't you get the hell out of Canada.

Blackbud is a blind individual. He cannot be made to see reason, let alone that there are other religions or people or societies or countries that do not see his way. He actually turns people off his christian ways.

He is a bible thumpin fanatic LOL

[CITIZEN_2015]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

 

Nobody said you are required to believe what I believe just because I said something.

 

You are lying about just speaking about your beliefs. You do much more than that. In your threads that you opened, you demanded that the government bans doctor assisted suicide and totally bans abortion. You want to impose your beliefs on the rest of citizens and restrict their lives.

[blackbird]

16 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

you demanded that the government bans doctor assisted suicide and totally bans abortion.

What I said is absolutely within the definition of freedom of speech.  Why do you want to ban someone from speaking and still claim to believe in the Charter of Rights and be a Canadian?  We have a few Ayatollahs on this forum who want to dictate what others can speak.  You're in good company.

 

[blackbird]

11 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

We have already spent enough time on this and you have openly admitted that you have no interest in looking at anything that those trained in their respective disciplines and instead comfort yourself with the pontifications of the con artists at places like creation.com, 

I agree we have spent enough time on this.  I don't see any sign of reaching agreement on the thing that matters, the word of God.  I don't believe it is productive to go on with useless debates back and forth.  You either accept the written word of God or you just want to debate it endlessly.  The Bible teaches that the fool rejects the word of God.  I accept it as absolutely true.  It is the key to forgiveness and eternal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

"

1  Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. {ungodly: or, wicked} 2  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3  And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

4  The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. 5  Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6  For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. "

   Psalm 1  KJV

Edited October 17 by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I agree we have spent enough time on this.  I don't see any sign of reaching agreement on the thing that matters, the word of God.  I don't believe it is productive to go on with useless debates back and forth.  You either accept the written word of God or you just want to debate it endlessly.  The Bible teaches that the fool rejects the word of God.  I accept it as absolutely true.  It is the key to forgiveness and eternal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

"

......

What a hypocritical dick!!! LOL