New Greece Study on Marijuana

[BubberMiley]

Drunk does not equal high. You are much more incapacititated and your motor skills are significantly more impaired while drunk.

[geoffrey]

Agreed. That doesn't change that you are impaired, and I don't think anyone impaired should be driving. Drunk, high, tired, pissed off at life, ect.

[sharkman]

This site is discussing Marijuana, not alcohol. Everytime someone comes out against pot, the pot-heads drag out their old standby argument about the bad affects of alcohol, when the two have nothing to do with each other. the discussion is about a scientific study done by Greek researchers on the effects on individuals who use pot.

Unfortunately the study doesn't tell us anything about the effects of pot.

I think you missed the part of the study that shows the results. 4 joints a week for several years, and your memory goes to pot.

[Wilber]

Drunk does not equal high. You are much more incapacititated and your motor skills are significantly more impaired while drunk.

Wonder how many passengers on an aircraft would take comfort in the idea that the guy (or gal) flying the aircraft could be legaly stoned. Would you?

[BubberMiley]

Wonder how many passengers on an aircraft would take comfort in the idea that the guy (or gal) flying the aircraft could be legaly stoned. Would you?

Alcohol is legal though it's still against the rules to fly a plane drunk. Even blasted, I have better reasoning skills than that.

[GostHacked]

Wonder how many passengers on an aircraft would take comfort in the idea that the guy (or gal) flying the aircraft could be legaly stoned. Would you?

Alcohol is legal though it's still against the rules to fly a plane drunk. Even blasted, I have better reasoning skills than that.

This proves that common sense, is not so common.

[Wilber]

Wonder how many passengers on an aircraft would take comfort in the idea that the guy (or gal) flying the aircraft could be legaly stoned. Would you?

Alcohol is legal though it's still against the rules to fly a plane drunk. Even blasted, I have better reasoning skills than that.

It's illegal to fly while impaired, period.

[Drea]

Wonder how many passengers on an aircraft would take comfort in the idea that the guy (or gal) flying the aircraft could be legaly stoned. Would you?

Alcohol is legal though it's still against the rules to fly a plane drunk. Even blasted, I have better reasoning skills than that.

It's illegal to fly while impaired, period.

No kidding.

No one is advocating people smoke pot then fly airplanes, drive cars or otherwise put themselves or others in danger.

[Wilber]

Wonder how many passengers on an aircraft would take comfort in the idea that the guy (or gal) flying the aircraft could be legaly stoned. Would you?

Alcohol is legal though it's still against the rules to fly a plane drunk. Even blasted, I have better reasoning skills than that.

It's illegal to fly while impaired, period.

No kidding.

No one is advocating people smoke pot then fly airplanes, drive cars or otherwise put themselves or others in danger.

Bubber seems to be trying to tell us that being impaired by being stoned is somehow different than being impaired by being drunk. Impaired is impaired. It may be great to go mountain biking with a buzz on and if he breaks his neck because of his resulting poor judgment, who cares but what about the poor schmuck he may end up running over?

People can learn to function when subject to abnormal unrelated stresses, fatigue, or under the influence but make no mistake, while their performance may be adequate for most situations, they are still impaired and will not perform as well under abnormal situations where there are higher stress levels and good decision making is vital. Anyone who requires artificial substances to do their job is in the wrong occupation. Neither should they be involved in anything that can jeopardize the safety of others, even riding a bicycle. You can be charged with impaired cycling in the UK you know. I know someone who was.

[BubberMiley]

Bubber seems to be trying to tell us that being impaired by being stoned is somehow different than being impaired by being drunk. Impaired is impaired. It may be great to go mountain biking with a buzz on and if he breaks his neck because of his resulting poor judgment, who cares but what about the poor schmuck he may end up running over?

After having a sip of beer, how long would you wait before driving a car? A day? A week?

Happy 4:20 Day!

[PocketRocket]

Bubber seems to be trying to tell us that being impaired by being stoned is somehow different than being impaired by being drunk.

Actually, it is indeed quite a lot different, which you would know if had ever tried weed.

Impaired is impaired.

True, but how does the impairment manifest itself???

With drunkenness, your judgement typically goes right out the window. You grow more careless. Your reflexes are slowed. Vision blurs.

With pot, a person typically becomes more "careful" as some paranoia sets in, usually proportional to the level of a person's high.

Years ago, on road trips, my wife would often tell me to "pull over and smoke a joint" when she felt I was driving too fast. You see, when I had a buzz on, my tendency was to drive slower, and more carefully.

These days I seldom, if ever, smoke outside my own home, and never when I expect to be going out.

In all honesty, I would never get in a car with a drunk driver, but would have no little getting in that same car if the driver was buzzed on weed, Unless, of course, he was totally whacked out. There is a big difference between "buzzed" and totally wrecked. Fortunately, it is not difficult to distinguish between these two states.

It may be great to go mountain biking with a buzz on and if he breaks his neck because of his resulting poor judgment, who cares but what about the poor schmuck he may end up running over?

This brings me back to my late teens, when I and several freinds would go down to a local field and play touch football.

Straight, I was useless.

After a few tokes, my skills improved dramatically.

I noticed the same trend in shooting pool, and in video games.

To this day I play a far better game of chess after smoking.

I think the major difference between weed and alcohol is that booze reduces one's ability to focus, while weed enhances that ability in several ways.

I am not advocating stoned driving here, simply pointing out that given the choice between the two, and no third alternative, I'll take the stoned driver, thank you.

[Wilber]

Actually, it is indeed quite a lot different, which you would know if had ever tried weed

.

I think the major difference between weed and alcohol is that booze reduces one's ability to focus, while weed enhances that ability in several ways.

With pot, a person typically becomes more "careful" as some paranoia sets in, usually proportional to the level of a person's high.

Years ago, on road trips, my wife would often tell me to "pull over and smoke a joint" when she felt I was driving too fast. You see, when I had a buzz on, my tendency was to drive slower, and more carefully.

I did try it a few times back in the sixties. At one time I did drive under the influence and it scared the hell out of me. What you describe as focus, I felt was a severe case of tunnel vision. Not a good thing to have while driving or doing anything else that involves physical risk. I scared me enough that I refused to ever do it again. I think you and your wife are fooling yourself. If your driving is not safe when you are not under the influence what on earth makes you think it would be acceptable when you are? A paranoid driver with tunnel vision. Just great.

I fly aircraft for a living and quite frankly, you scare me.

[KrustyKidd]

Years ago, on road trips, my wife would often tell me to "pull over and smoke a joint" when she felt I was driving too fast. You see, when I had a buzz on, my tendency was to drive slower, and more carefully.

I am a very nervous driver so, I find that I am more carful negotiating my sevnty five foot semi in and out of Brooklyn after I've had a few shots of Jack Daniels. Many a foxy lady has told me I'm pretty mellow after I've had a few. Gettin' my piot's licsense soon too. May have to switch to Vodka though and another brand of mouthwashas flying really makes me nervous and uptight so will need to be 'extra relaxed' if you know what I mean.

I think the major difference between weed and alcohol is that booze reduces one's ability to focus, while weed enhances that ability in several ways.

There's a roadside test for alcohol, not for drugs. If the only test for booze was one in which they could only tell that you had had a drink in the last three months but not verify you sobriety then they would probably make driving illegal with alcohol in any amount in your system. I believe that softer drugs should be legal but, in order to smoke you should forfit your pilot's, driver's, medical, heavy equipment and whatever else permit you hold other than a bus pass. Then, when you wish to upgrade from foot to wheel, you go for a test and then get your permit upgraded for a month or two until you test negative again. That way, nobody's rights get infringed and a doctor's patient doesn't have to wonder how 'relaxed' the surgeon really is.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Wilber,

At one time I did drive under the influence and it scared the hell out of me. What you describe as focus, I felt was a severe case of tunnel vision. Not a good thing to have while driving or doing anything else that involves physical risk. I scared me enough that I refused to ever do it again

This is your personal experience and not neccesarily the majority feeling. Some people get drunk or stoned once and never touch drugs again.

There was a study done by the police in Canada (I believe it was in Moose Jaw, but could be wrong) where the tests showed that the group that was high on marijuana scored 'safest', above both drinking and sober drivers. It only took less than a year for someone to set up another test to 'disprove' these results with another 'controlled study'.

[Wilber]

This is your personal experience and not neccesarily the majority feeling. Some people get drunk or stoned once and never touch drugs again.

Yes this was my personal experience but do you think operating a vehicle or doing anything else that puts others at risk while under the influence should be subject to a vote?

[PocketRocket]

I fly aircraft for a living and quite frankly, you scare me.

I guess you didn't note that I specified "years ago".

I also mentioned a difference between a buzz, and being wrecked.

Hopefully this allays your fears somewhat.

You probably wouldn't be comforted, however, if I told you stories of an acquaintance who enjoys flying his Cessna 132 after smoking a joint.

I am a very nervous driver so, I find that I am more carful negotiating my sevnty five foot semi in and out of Brooklyn after I've had a few shots of Jack Daniels. Many a foxy lady has told me I'm pretty mellow after I've had a few. Gettin' my piot's licsense soon too. May have to switch to Vodka though and another brand of mouthwashas flying really makes me nervous and uptight so will need to be 'extra relaxed' if you know what I mean.

LOL. But don't quit your day job

There's a roadside test for alcohol, not for drugs. If the only test for booze was one in which they could only tell that you had had a drink in the last three months but not verify you sobriety then they would probably make driving illegal with alcohol in any amount in your system.

"Impaired driving" does not require any test. It as a judgement call on the part of the officer on the scene. People have been charged for impaired driving without the benefit of a breathalyzer test.

I know a fellow who was once charged for impaired driving because he was over-tired.

In another incident about 30 years ago, I was in the passenger seat when we were pulled over. The cop took a good look at the driver, and told us to switch seats so I could drive. The driver had been behind the wheel for 14 hours straight. I had slept a large part of that time. Substances had no part in it, the guy was simply overly tired.

"Impaired" does not always mean "under the influence".

However, in yet another incident, a friend who had been smoking pot was pulled over. The cop talked to him, had him get out of the car and walk around, and charged him with impaired driving.

Just as a man who has had 1 beer is probably not impaired, likewise a man who has had 1 or 2 hits off a joint of low-grade weed is also probably not impaired.

In the final analysis, it's always a judgement call on the part of the cop on the scene.

[Biblio Bibuli]

I was in the passenger seat when we were pulled over. The cop took a good look at the driver, and told us to switch seats so I could drive.

I remember you telling us once that the reason you don't drink and drive is because you drink expensive liquor [Crown Royal ... (same as TB, btw)] and worry you might spill some.

[Wilber]

I guess you didn't note that I specified "years ago".

I also mentioned a difference between a buzz, and being wrecked.

Hopefully this allays your fears somewhat.

You probably wouldn't be comforted, however, if I told you stories of an acquaintance who enjoys flying his Cessna 132 after smoking a joint.

I guess I have severe doubts about a persons ability to know the difference between being "buzzed" and "wrecked". That's what impairment is.

As for your acquaintance who enjoys his flying after smoking a joint. As a professional pilot I would have no qualms about turning him in. Not only would I not want anyone I know riding in his aircraft, I don't believe that I or the passengers in my aircraft should be forced to share the same airspace with him.

[BubberMiley]

I guess I have severe doubts about a persons ability to know the difference between being "buzzed" and "wrecked". That's what impairment is.

Wilber, my question was serious: after a sip of beer, should your licence be suspended until you are no longer under any influence of alcohol? If so, how long should this suspension last?

[Wilber]

I guess I have severe doubts about a persons ability to know the difference between being "buzzed" and "wrecked". That's what impairment is.

Wilber, my question was serious: after a sip of beer, should your licence be suspended until you are no longer under any influence of alcohol? If so, how long should this suspension last?

Good question. We have legal standards when it comes to consumption of alcohol and operating a motor vehicle. They are certainly debatable but they are not left to the discretion of the drinker. I wouldn't be opposed to a similar set of standards regarding the use of marijuana. It would certainly be better than the present situation where there are none at all. I'm sure they would be just as debatable. When it comes to aviation however, the standard is zero and that is not debatable.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Wilber,

I wouldn't be opposed to a similar set of standards regarding the use of marijuana. It would certainly be better than the present situation where there are none at all. I'm sure they would be just as debatable. When it comes to aviation however, the standard is zero and that is not debatable.

Fair enough, I am sure most pot smokers (including myself) do not oppose standards regarding use in public. In fact, I believe most would welcome them, except for the 'chronics', but alcoholics could most likely fall in the same category.

[PocketRocket]

I was in the passenger seat when we were pulled over. The cop took a good look at the driver, and told us to switch seats so I could drive.

I remember you telling us once that the reason you don't drink and drive is because you drink expensive liquor [Crown Royal ... (same as TB, btw)] and worry you might spill some.

If THAT'S what you remember, then whatever you're smoking is a hell of a lot better than anything I've ever tried.

But I do like Crown Royal.

I guess I have severe doubts about a persons ability to know the difference between being "buzzed" and "wrecked". That's what impairment is.

One of the beauties of weed, and one in which it differs from alcohol, is that with weed, when you're buzzed, you know you're buzzed.

When you're wrecked, you KNOW you're wrecked.

With alcohol, not only does your personal judgement regarding your own impairment level go out the window, you also tend to become a lot less likely to agree with anyone who may sugeest you're overly-drunk.

As for your acquaintance who enjoys his flying after smoking a joint. As a professional pilot I would have no qualms about turning him in. Not only would I not want anyone I know riding in his aircraft, I don't believe that I or the passengers in my aircraft should be forced to share the same airspace with him.

Can't say as I blame you. Actually, from what I understand, he does little, if any, flying anymore.

At least not in a plane

[BubberMiley]

Probably one of the things that requires the greatest amount of coordination and focus is improvising jazz. Funny that pretty much everybody that ever did it really, really well was a chronic stoner.