Oath of Loyalty to Canadian Values

[scribblet]

Oath of loyality to Canadian values

Published: February 28, 2006

The Fraser Institute has released a position paper suggesting the federal government require new immigrants to Canada to swear an oath of loyalty to Canadian values and principles and deport those who violate this oath.

What is your suggestion for an oath of allegiance?

© Ottawa Citizen 2006

Hummm.

for starters, Canadians respect freedom of speech and freedom of religion, and women are to be treated as equal.

[Canuck E Stan]

Perfect.

That's it....they're all going back to where they came from.

[geoffrey]

All these great ideas out of Vancouver. I think we should just scrap this whole parlimentary idea and make the Fraser Institute our government!

[August1991]

At present, we already have a test for citizenship. In Canada, potential citizens must be able to explain why aboriginals are seeking self-government:

Where does Father Christmas come from? How old do you have to be to buy a lottery ticket? If your adult son declares he's a homosexual, what do you do? If a film or a book insults your religious feelings, what is your reaction? Why are aboriginal peoples seeking self-government? Who has the power to declare war?

Answering such questions appropriately may not define you as a citizen of the world, but it would help get you citizenship in Britain (the first two questions), Germany (the second two), Canada (the next) or the United States (the last).

....

In January, the Baden-Württemberg region of Germany instituted questions to be asked only of Muslims from particular countries - questions dealing with women's rights, religious freedom and domestic life.

IHT

The world would be a much simpler place if people would simply answer questions honestly, and if studying for an exam meant learning something. There is a vague "re-education camp" smell to this exercice.

[betsy]

That immigrants had read and understand what Canada stands for, including her values, rights and freedoms, and are expected to honor and uphold them as any citizen of Canada would.

[August1991]

That immigrants had read and understand what Canada stands for, including her values, rights and freedoms, and are expected to honor and uphold them as any citizen of Canada would.

Citizens who were born here don't have to take any such test or show any willingness to honour or uphold anything.

Canada the country is not the same thing as the Canadian federal government.

[scribblet]

That immigrants had read and understand what Canada stands for, including her values, rights and freedoms, and are expected to honor and uphold them as any citizen of Canada would.

Nothing wrong with asking future citizens to conform to our laws and values, this might head off another attempt to bring in Sharia law.

Holland is going a step further, I believe Germany is discussing it too.

Holland launches the immigrant quiz

Nicola Smith, Amsterdam

TWO MEN kissing in a park and a topless woman bather are featured in a film that will be shown to would-be immigrants to the Netherlands.

The reactions of applicants — including Muslims — will be examined to see whether they are able to accept the country’s liberal attitudes.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2081496,00.html

[Canuck E Stan]

That immigrants had read and understand what Canada stands for, including her values, rights and freedoms, and are expected to honor and uphold them as any citizen of Canada would.

Nothing wrong with asking future citizens to conform to our laws and values, this might head off another attempt to bring in Sharia law.

Holland is going a step further, I believe Germany is discussing it too.

Holland launches the immigrant quiz

Nicola Smith, Amsterdam

TWO MEN kissing in a park and a topless woman bather are featured in a film that will be shown to would-be immigrants to the Netherlands.

The reactions of applicants — including Muslims — will be examined to see whether they are able to accept the country’s liberal attitudes.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2081496,00.html

Maybe they should be shown a cartoon of Mohammed with rockets coming out of his head and see what the reaction would be. Or how about a reaction to seal clubbing or show a rock star masterbating in front of an audience.

WTF is this all about, trying to get reations from immigrants?

How is that a test for immigrants?

[speaker]

How about this one. I hereby swear to have tolerance for all cultures, religions, political leanings, even this crazy one that Canada has adopted just recently.

I think this would have been good for anytime in the last 140 years.

[Leafless]

August1991

You wrote- " Citizens who are born here don't have to take such a test or show or show any willingness to honour and uphild anything."

Exactly and this does not say much concerning the integrety of the federal government of this country who protects all existing Canadian citizens under our Charter of rights and Freedoms and provides other ammenities to some citizens who's personal ideologies concerning loyality to Canada are non-existent or denounced or are in favour of loyality to another country.

All Canadians and immigrants should be compelled to take an oath of allegiance to this country and it's Head of State.

[Hicksey]

How about this one?

What exactly are Canadian Values?

[scribblet]

That immigrants had read and understand what Canada stands for, including her values, rights and freedoms, and are expected to honor and uphold them as any citizen of Canada would.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2081496,00.html

Maybe they should be shown a cartoon of Mohammed with rockets coming out of his head and see what the reaction would be. Or how about a reaction to seal clubbing or show a rock star masterbating in front of an audience.

WTF is this all about, trying to get reations from immigrants?

How is that a test for immigrants?

It would show that they are willing to live peacefully in a country which has values and some lifestyles that are against the potential immigrant's beliefs. We should also make sure any questions include asking if they believe in full equality for women .

As speaker said: I hereby swear to have tolerance for all cultures, religions, political leanings," and even those I disagree with.

[Nocrap]

Oath of loyality to Canadian values

Published: February 28, 2006

The Fraser Institute has released a position paper suggesting the federal government require new immigrants to Canada to swear an oath of loyalty to Canadian values and principles and deport those who violate this oath.

What is your suggestion for an oath of allegiance?

© Ottawa Citizen 2006

Hummm.

for starters, Canadians respect freedom of speech and freedom of religion, and women are to be treated as equal.

I have spent some time researching the fat cats behind Stephen Harper's rise to power and many have an association to the Fraser Institute (which has an association to the National Citizens' Coalition, our new PM's old digs), so I can only assume they mean Canadian Values according to Mr. Harper and the NCC.

[Black Dog]

The Fraser Institute has released a position paper suggesting the federal government require new immigrants to Canada to swear an oath of loyalty to Canadian values and principles and deport those who violate this oath.

Okay: how would the government know when someone has violated the oath?

I'm with August on this one: there's a strong whiff of totalitarianism behind such an excercise.

[Leafless]

BlackDog

You wrote- " How would the government know whan someone violated this oath"

Normally anyone with strong convictions would refuse to take this oath and would be identified as undesirable.

But an oath in Canada I suspect would not never become a reality.

This is the case in the federal public service where some Quebecers refused to take an oath of alegiance to the Queen of Canada and now that oath is simply a meaningless formality.

This joke though is now on the federal government with many Canadians now harbouring absolutely no respect for this country.

[geoffrey]

I have spent some time researching the fat cats behind Stephen Harper's rise to power and many have an association to the Fraser Institute (which has an association to the National Citizens' Coalition, our new PM's old digs), so I can only assume they mean Canadian Values according to Mr. Harper and the NCC.

There aren't many 'fat cats' at the Fraser Institute, I think you have a very big misconception about how much a public policy analyst makes.

Sure some of the senior fellows are old big business men and government officials, but this is in all organizations. Someone has to pay the bills to keep the lights on and the phone bills paid.

Where is your evidence of a connection between the NCC and Fraser Institute? Many people are members of both, clearly, but there isn't a formal link just to let you know.

I love the conspiracy theorists!

[Black Dog]

BlackDog

You wrote- " How would the government know whan someone violated this oath"

Normally anyone with strong convictions would refuse to take this oath and would be identified as undesirable.

That doesn't answer my question. Part of the proposal is that anyone who violates the oath would be deported. The questions that raises for me is: how is such a violation determined and by whom? Under what authority?

If I was an immigrant, I wouldn't refuse to take such an oath. As a citizen, though, I would.

[geoffrey]

BlackDog

You wrote- " How would the government know whan someone violated this oath"

Normally anyone with strong convictions would refuse to take this oath and would be identified as undesirable.

That doesn't answer my question. Part of the proposal is that anyone who violates the oath would be deported. The questions that raises for me is: how is such a violation determined and by whom? Under what authority?

If I was an immigrant, I wouldn't refuse to take such an oath. As a citizen, though, I would.

Just make it a criminal offence so it would be tried in court fairly before any deportation happened?

[Black Dog]

Just make it a criminal offence so it would be tried in court fairly before any deportation happened?

So how do you make a "values violation" illegal? What would constitute an offence under such a law?

[Hicksey]

BlackDog

You wrote- " How would the government know whan someone violated this oath"

Normally anyone with strong convictions would refuse to take this oath and would be identified as undesirable.

That doesn't answer my question. Part of the proposal is that anyone who violates the oath would be deported. The questions that raises for me is: how is such a violation determined and by whom? Under what authority?

If I was an immigrant, I wouldn't refuse to take such an oath. As a citizen, though, I would.

Just make it a criminal offence so it would be tried in court fairly before any deportation happened?

Again, unless we define Canadian values how can we deport someone? And how are we to define Canadian Values? Are Canadian values one and the same as our laws?

I ask because conservative Canadians and Liberal Canadians often have greatly differing values.

[Spike22]

BlackDog

You wrote- " How would the government know whan someone violated this oath"

Normally anyone with strong convictions would refuse to take this oath and would be identified as undesirable.

That doesn't answer my question. Part of the proposal is that anyone who violates the oath would be deported. The questions that raises for me is: how is such a violation determined and by whom? Under what authority?

If I was an immigrant, I wouldn't refuse to take such an oath. As a citizen, though, I would.

Just make it a criminal offence so it would be tried in court fairly before any deportation happened?

Again, unless we define Canadian values how can we deport someone? And how are we to define Canadian Values? Are Canadian values one and the same as our laws?

I ask because conservative Canadians and Liberal Canadians often have greatly differing values.

Having studies values and ethics and having conducted numerous surveys of people asking to define what ethics and values mean I have received 1001 different answers. This is one of the hardest areas to define interestingly though when the 10 commandments were provided as a starting block all agreed these were good rules to follow. Also respect and compassion for your fellow man ranked very high.

[Hicksey]

BlackDog

You wrote- " How would the government know whan someone violated this oath"

Normally anyone with strong convictions would refuse to take this oath and would be identified as undesirable.

That doesn't answer my question. Part of the proposal is that anyone who violates the oath would be deported. The questions that raises for me is: how is such a violation determined and by whom? Under what authority?

If I was an immigrant, I wouldn't refuse to take such an oath. As a citizen, though, I would.

Just make it a criminal offence so it would be tried in court fairly before any deportation happened?

Again, unless we define Canadian values how can we deport someone? And how are we to define Canadian Values? Are Canadian values one and the same as our laws?

I ask because conservative Canadians and Liberal Canadians often have greatly differing values.

Having studies values and ethics and having conducted numerous surveys of people asking to define what ethics and values mean I have received 1001 different answers. This is one of the hardest areas to define interestingly though when the 10 commandments were provided as a starting block all agreed these were good rules to follow. Also respect and compassion for your fellow man ranked very high.

But how can we institute such a harsh punishment without a clear definition of Canadian Values?

Its akin to instituting the death penalty without an appeals process.

[Black Dog]

Again, unless we define Canadian values how can we deport someone? And how are we to define Canadian Values? Are Canadian values one and the same as our laws?

I ask because conservative Canadians and Liberal Canadians often have greatly differing values.

First: here's a link to the story behind this rather incoherent proposal.

The paper proposes that those who apply to immigrate to Canada should be told "what is expected of them and that, if they fail to live up to our expectations, they will be removed from Canada."

In addition, before becoming citizens, immigrants should be required to take an oath "swearing that they are not only fully committed to Canadian values and will give their complete allegiance and loyalty to Canada, but that their actions in the future will reflect these commitments."

Those who behave in a manner that seriously conflicts with Canada's principles -- for example by supporting or engaging in terrorism -- should lose their citizenship, he argues

If someone is supporting terrorism (presumably, financially or materially) or engaging in it, they should be prosecuted. But thi sproposal goes beyond that and appears to mandate thought control.

Second: Hicksey hits it bang on. My values are not those of the Fraser Institute.

[stignasty]

Just a couple of things pop out at me.

1. I can't think of a single person that I know who came to Canada from elsewhere who doesn't have a great deal of love and respect for this country.

2. Dishonest people who have no morals will have no issues with taking the oath and then disregarding its meaning.

There's no other point to this than to stir up more nationalism.

[seabee]

Would anyone be willing to take an oath to the effect that it is a Canadian value to "promote the Interests of the British Empire"? Yet, it is what the 1867 Constitutional act says, in its preamble, that is why Canada was created.

Trying to define "Canadian values" should prove as easy as nailing jell-o to the wall.