Women's Olympic Boxing

[User]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

But that's not the issue here. She was never identified as a man. 

When the issue is trying to argue about gender vs sex (which is what I was responding to), yes, how you define what a woman is most definitely part of that. 

Welcome to the party, can you define what a woman is in any meaningful way?

Just now, Rebound said:

So now it’s “fantasy delusion”? First she’s a woman, then she’s not, and it’s your business? Maybe it’s none of your business. 

Yes, calling yourself a woman when you are a man or a man when you are a woman is a delusion and fantasy. 

It is my business when folks like you expect us to go along with that and want to force it into the schools and onto children. 

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, User said:

That is not what I argued. If you are going to put stuff in quotes, you should accurately quote someone. This is why people might call you dishonest. 

You accused me of having nothing to base this on and I presented you with the evidence I did have. I never made any claim that she was XY because she was DQ'd for being XY. 

No you said the evidence for her being XY was the fact she was disqualified for being XY. "She was previously DQ'd for [being XY]. That is called actual evidence." So, again, you're citing the fact of her disqualification for being XY as evidence of her being XY. 

Quote

 

No, it is that folks like you want to pretend that a woman can be male and that a man can be a female. 

It is that Men are males and Women are Females. When the leftist woke people who believe they are something they are not, they do not say I am acting like a male, they say they are a male.

 

It's called "gender identity" dude, no one is arguing that transitioning changes your biological sex or genetics.

[CouchPotato]

1 minute ago, Black Dog said:

It's called "gender identity" dude, no one is arguing that transitioning changes your biological sex or genetics.

So what is a woman? Is it a sex or a gender identity?

[User]

6 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

No you said the evidence for her being XY was the fact she was disqualified for being XY. "She was previously DQ'd for [being XY]. That is called actual evidence." So, again, you're citing the fact of her disqualification for being XY as evidence of her being XY. 

I did not assert she was XY because of the DQ... in fact, my point before you said that was that it is perfectly reasonable to question these things. 

You then said:

"As usual you are very quick to believe claims that support your pre-existing beliefs even when there's no actual evidence presented. "

You said there's no actual evidence. Yet, there is evidence. I make no claim that it proves she is XY as you tried to distort and lie with quotes around something I never said. 

This was your dumb argument, to make it seem like I just randomly woke up one day and was like, hey, that girt is no girl, she must have XY chromosomes. Just out of thin air, a random thought... 

That is not what happened. There is evidence here to question this. 

 

10 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

It's called "gender identity" dude, no one is arguing that transitioning changes your biological sex or genetics.

I never said labeling yourself something you are not changes your sex or genetics. It is a fantasy delusion. I am saying that I don't have to play along with it and that this is the game folks like you are playing when you want to say sex and gender are different, so that a man can claim to be a woman and female while you sit there realizing how absurd that is and refuse to define the term because you can't. 

 

[Black Dog]

10 minutes ago, CouchPotato said:

So what is a woman? Is it a sex or a gender identity?

It's both. If you see a person in a dress, heels and makeup with long hair come out of the women's washroom do you think "hmm I have to check this person's DNA before I can determine what i think they are?" Of course not.

[User]

3 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

It's both. If you see a person in a dress, heels and makeup with long hair come out of the women's washroom do you think "hmm I have to check this person's DNA before I can determine what i think they are?" Of course not.

LOL, what disingenuous crap. 

If someone dresses up like a cat, walks out of the litter box, that doesn't make them a cat. No matter how convincing they appear to be. 

Dressing up like a woman and using the woman's restroom doesn't make you a woman. Is that your definition of a woman now? Really?

LOL

[CouchPotato]

4 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

It's both. If you see a person in a dress, heels and makeup with long hair come out of the women's washroom do you think "hmm I have to check this person's DNA before I can determine what i think they are?" Of course not.

So there is woman as a sex and woman as a gender, then?

[Black Dog]

1 minute ago, User said:

I did not assert she was XY because of the DQ... in fact, my point before you said that was that it is perfectly reasonable to question these things. 

You said there's no actual evidence. Yet, there is evidence. I make no claim that it proves she is XY as you tried to distort and lie with quotes around something I never said. 

The evidence you've provided is the fact she looks masculine and that she was DQd. Again: being DQd for being XY is not actual evidence of being XY! 

 

[Black Dog]

11 minutes ago, User said:

 never said labeling yourself something you are not changes your sex or genetics. It is a fantasy delusion. I am saying that I don't have to play along with it and that this is the game folks like you are playing when you want to say sex and gender are different, so that a man can claim to be a woman and female while you sit there realizing how absurd that is and refuse to define the term because you can't. 
 

Blah blah blah who cares, mind your own business.

5 minutes ago, User said:

LOL, what disingenuous crap. 

If someone dresses up like a cat, walks out of the litter box, that doesn't make them a cat. No matter how convincing they appear to be. 

Cats aren't people and are therefore not subject to human social norms I hope that helps.

Quote

Dressing up like a woman and using the woman's restroom doesn't make you a woman. Is that your definition of a woman now? Really?

LOL

Oh boy and to think this is the guy who is always crying about dishonesty lol.

[Black Dog]

6 minutes ago, CouchPotato said:

So there is woman as a sex and woman as a gender, then?

It's more that the term "woman" has biological and social components I think.

 

[User]

2 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Blah blah blah who cares, mind your own business.

You are the one here arguing that your absurd views be accepted. 

Go live in your basement and believe that men can be women and vice versa all you want too. I won't mock you there. 

3 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Cats aren't people and are therefore not subject to human social norms I hope that helps.

Of course cats are not people and a person dressed like a cat isn't a person anymore. These are your rules. 

3 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Oh boy and to think this is the guy who is always crying about dishonesty lol.

What is the dishonesty here?

[CouchPotato]

3 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

It's more that the term "woman" has biological and social components I think.

 

What are the social components? Give me a few examples. What are defining factors of woman as a gender?

Edited August 2, 2024 by CouchPotato

[User]

2 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

It's more that the term "woman" has biological and social components I think.

See, now you are conflating sex and gender... almost like they are the same thing. In that Men act like males...

[Black Dog]

12 minutes ago, CouchPotato said:

What are the social components? Give me a few examples. What are defining factors of woman as a gender?

Traditionally in our society women are expected to be feminine in dress and appearance, comport themselves in a demure fashion, and be accommodating and nurturing.

[Black Dog]

14 minutes ago, User said:

See, now you are conflating sex and gender... almost like they are the same thing. In that Men act like males...

That's not what conflating means. I want to be clear here so I don't hear any more guff about "dishonesty": do you believe there is no social component to the commonly agreed definition of woman or is it entirely genetic?

[Black Dog]

19 minutes ago, User said:

You are the one here arguing that your absurd views be accepted. 

That's funny because I'm not arguing that they be accepted. More dihonesty from captain honesty.

Quote

Go live in your basement and believe that men can be women and vice versa all you want too. I won't mock you there. 

Of course cats are not people and a person dressed like a cat isn't a person anymore. These are your rules. 

LOL do you think women are a different species entirely lmao? Stupid boomer.

Quote

Where is the dishonesty here?

You were being a lying a little b!tch here when you said: "Dressing up like a woman and using the woman's restroom doesn't make you a woman." when no one made any such claim. Take a nap, gramps.

 

[Aristides]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

Would you estimate a women like Serena Williams 

has more testosterone than a Justine Henin? 

Don't know but Serena herself says she would get destroyed in a match with a ranked male player.

[CouchPotato]

42 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Traditionally in our society women are expected to be feminine in dress and appearance, comport themselves in a demure fashion, and be accommodating and nurturing.

Suppose a biological man walks by. He has a beard, a big beer belly, a MAGA cap on, and he lets out a big belch in your face. Is it possible for him to identify as a woman?

Suppose a woman walks by. She's not demure. She has on a MAGA cap and she also belches in your face. Can she still identify with the female gender?

Suppose a man wears dresses. He is very demure. He is accommodating and nurturing. Can he identify as a man?

Edited August 2, 2024 by CouchPotato

[User]

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

That's not what conflating means. I want to be clear here so I don't hear any more guff about "dishonesty": do you believe there is no social component to the commonly agreed definition of woman or is it entirely genetic?

Sure it is, you using both sex and gender together, after you insisted they were different things...

Even now, you are asking me about the social component to how a woman is defined. So, which is it? Is the sex of woman different from the gender of female?

You can't even figure out which term you want to use and keep your story straight. 

Of course being a woman is a matter of biology. Are you ever going to stop being too cowardly to answer the question and tell me what you think the definition of a woman is?

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

That's funny because I'm not arguing that they be accepted. More dihonesty from captain honesty.

Oh... great! Another concession from you. I am right and you are wrong. This is great. Twice in the last couple of days now. I must be getting through to you. 

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

LOL do you think women are a different species entirely lmao? Stupid boomer.

You are the one who can't even define what a woman is. 
 

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

You were being a lying a little b!tch here when you said: "Dressing up like a woman and using the woman's restroom doesn't make you a woman." when no one made any such claim. Take a nap, gramps.

Give me a break. You are so dishonest. 

You said, with my added context in ():
                             
"If you see a person in a dress, heels and makeup with long hair (DRESSING LIKE A WOMAN) come out of the women's washroom (USING THE WOMAN'S RESTROOM) do you think "hmm I have to check this person's DNA before I can determine what i think they are?" Of course not."

 

[Matthew]

4 hours ago, CouchPotato said:

Suppose a biological man walks by. He has a beard, a big beer belly, a MAGA cap on, and he lets out a big belch in your face. Is it possible for him to identify as a woman?

Suppose a woman walks by. She's not demure. She has on a MAGA cap and she also belches in your face. Can she still identify with the female gender?

Suppose a man wears dresses. He is very demure. He is accommodating and nurturing. Can he identify as a man?

It's adorable that you think a MAGA hat is definitively masculine.

Literally marketing from a highly emotional NY dandy in makeup and spray tan.

[CouchPotato]

2 minutes ago, Matthew said:

It's adorable that you think a MAGA hat is definitively masculine.

Literally marketing from a highly emotional NY dandy in makeup and spray tan.

OK, then let's change out the hat.

I just assumed it would go well with the left's stereotypical image of someone with a beer belly who belches in your face.

Edited August 3, 2024 by CouchPotato

[Matthew]

6 minutes ago, CouchPotato said:

I just assumed it would go well with the left's stereotypical image of someone with a beer belly who belches in your face.

Well there are millions of fat women who belch and fart like anyone else. Though I get what you mean.  I'm not super well-versed in the theories about gender but what you're implying is that someone is presenting themselves to the world as stereotypically male in their behaviors and clothing, etc but at the same time has a uterus and other physical sex characteristics of women? You're asking if it's possible for this person to identify as a woman? Of course. Its extremely common and widely accepted (even among conservatives) for women to dress and act in ways that that were once strictly masculine. Women wearing pants was not acceptable for example.

[CouchPotato]

5 minutes ago, Matthew said:

 I'm not super well-versed in the theories about gender but what you're implying is that someone is presenting themselves to the world as stereotypically male in their behaviors and clothing, etc but at the same time has a uterus and other physical sex characteristics of women? You're asking if it's possible for this person to identify as a woman? Of course.

No, what I am doing is challenging Black Dog's definition of woman (or female) as a gender. He said that the term woman can refer to either a sex or a gender. So, I asked him to give me some defining features of woman as a gender. Do you agree with his answer? He said...

Quote

Traditionally in our society women are expected to be feminine in dress and appearance, comport themselves in a demure fashion, and be accommodating and nurturing.

 

Edited August 3, 2024 by CouchPotato

[Matthew]

3 minutes ago, CouchPotato said:

No, what I am doing is challenging Black Dog's definition of woman (or female) as a gender.

BD is making the common distinction between biological sex being the physical traits and gender being the non-physical cultural traits and immaterial social norms.

BD's list of cultural traits widely associated with femininity is true in our culture but doesn't automatically define an individual person as being a man or woman.

[CouchPotato]

8 minutes ago, Matthew said:

BD is making the common distinction between biological sex being the physical traits and gender being the non-physical cultural traits and immaterial social norms.

BD's list of cultural traits widely associated with femininity is true in our culture but doesn't automatically define an individual person as being a man or woman.

I understand that. Those cultural traits were what he gave to me as a response to the question of "How would you define woman as a gender?" Do you agree with his answer? In order to belong to the gender of woman (not the biological sex) do you have to possess those cultural traits which are associated with femininity? Or is the definition really much broader than what Black Dog posted?

Edited August 3, 2024 by CouchPotato