The Level of Debate Here

[Argus]

The more I read Argus, the more I lol.

I do hope you don't have difficulty doing that and reading at the same time. What with having to move your lips and run your finger across the screen as you puzzle out the big words.

[Argus]

He is good to laugh at. And I guess he would whine that Drea was clearly provoking him with that story. Maybe he'll complain about that post to the moderator.

Drea said nothing to complain about. He/she/it merely disagreed with me.

However, I believe that as of Saturday I will email complaints to the moderater at any and all direct insults I come across, whether aimed at me or anyone else.

Call it my hobby.

[BubberMiley]

Are you going to start with that post immediately before your last one?

[lost&outofcontrol]

Swell. I'm glad you have such quaint museum pieces as friends. Maybe you can adopt a canibal in a grass skirt and marvel over his skill with creating stone arrowheads or something. I hope your girflriend isn't set on fire, too, when the in-laws her family chooses for her decide they should get a bigger fridge or something than the dowry allows for. Of course, she could just marry some useless white guy - as long as they keep a close eye on dear old dad so he doesn't stick his kirpan into her chest for dishonouring the family.

There are far too many witless children who have crept...

What with having to move your lips and run your finger across the screen as you puzzle out the big words.

However, I believe that as of Saturday I will email complaints to the moderater at any and all direct insults I come across, whether aimed at me or anyone else.

Call it my hobby.

There ya go, I have a few for you to report.

[uOttawaMan]

Don't get Argus banned, I enjoy seeing him boost his e-ego through attempts to demean everyone around him.

[JerrySeinfeld]

During the last couple of months, while Greg has been busy with the impending and then birth of his first child, the level of debate and maturity here at Maple has dropped steadily, to the point where direct personal insults and obscenities are being regularly hurled back and forth. I admit to having been provoked into responding somewhat in kind, but I have to say I'm tired of it. If people can't control themselves any better it might be neccessary to start reporting these kinds of posts to the moderator rather than responding in kind.

Argus, I agree wholeheartedly. Perhaps you and I will not agree on many things, but I have found that each time I post arguments or facts I get derided by insults and inuendo about the kind of person i am.

It's the "Michael Moore - ization" of this forum; lets categoraize eveyone into easy slots so we can deride them one at a time.

Lefties consistently look for convenient ways to demonize those that don't fit into their way of thinking.

It's McCarthyism reversed - fifty years later. At least conservatives got over it in the firities - lefties are still doing it: "ohhhhhh...you are THIS kind of person...I THOUGHT SO!!!"

[Riverwind]

At least conservatives got over it in the firities

No they haven't. Right wing types constantly call anyone who dares to question the wisdom of the war on terror as a 'america hater'.

[Argus]

Are you going to start with that post immediately before your last one?

That was an indirect insult. Get with the program.

[Argus]

Don't get Argus banned, I enjoy seeing him boost his e-ego through attempts to demean everyone around him.

Your posts demean you more than I could.

[Argus]

At least conservatives got over it in the firities

No they haven't. Right wing types constantly call anyone who dares to question the wisdom of the war on terror as a 'america hater'.

Yes, well, most of the time we're right.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Are you going to start with that post immediately before your last one?

That was an indirect insult. Get with the program.

I'm sorry if I'm slow but how is that an insult ?

You're my freaking hero Argus.

[Hicksey]

We've been setting up straw men and taking shots at them from different sides.

Right now, there's a debate over whether the left or right likes the 'slippery slope' argument more.

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

I have come to the conclusion that liberals have respect and compassion for only those who hold their beliefs.

[Drea]

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

I have come to the conclusion that liberals have respect and compassion for only those who hold their beliefs.

More than anything I am sick of being called a femi-nazi/immoral/moonbat/American-hating/terrorist supporter for holding beliefs other than right of centre.

I have come to the conclusion that rightwingers have respect and compassion for only those who hold their beliefs.

[Argus]

We've been setting up straw men and taking shots at them from different sides.

Right now, there's a debate over whether the left or right likes the 'slippery slope' argument more.

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

Well then, the next time someone says that report the post to the moderator. It will stop pretty soon.

[Argus]

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

I have come to the conclusion that liberals have respect and compassion for only those who hold their beliefs.

More than anything I am sick of being called a femi-nazi/immoral/moonbat/American-hating/terrorist supporter for holding beliefs other than right of centre.

Well then, the next time someone says that report the post to the moderator. It will stop pretty soon.

[Hicksey]

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

I have come to the conclusion that liberals have respect and compassion for only those who hold their beliefs.

More than anything I am sick of being called a femi-nazi/immoral/moonbat/American-hating/terrorist supporter for holding beliefs other than right of centre.

I have come to the conclusion that rightwingers have respect and compassion for only those who hold their beliefs.

You won't catch me calling you any of those things. I may disagree with many of your positions, but a large part of what is great about being Canadian and free, is the freedom to have them and express them.

I've lapsed only once and called one poster an idiot, but only after being called stupid for being conservative and subscribing to that belief system. I admit it wasn't the right thing to do/say, but in my frustration I just reacted. But the main difference between that and my complaint is that I wasn't calling him an idiot for being a liberal, rather because his level of discourse left much to be desired.

I've even gone so far as to admit that the Liberal and NDP parties aren't all bad and have some good ideas. I just don't subscribe to their platforms as a whole.

As far as being called immoral, I think morality is subjective to a person's religion and upbringing. But I do think that there has to be a moral base that, no matter your upbringing or religion, must be adhered to. It is plainly obvious that people are going to be biased in favor of their own upbringing, and as a result what you might consider moral may not be considered moral by others. I don't think holding strongly to your beliefs makes a person either immoral or bigotted, just principled.

[BubberMiley]

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

What was the context that you were called bigotted/homophobe/racist? What were these "other-than-left-of-centre" beliefs that provoked that response? I agree that name-calling is a crutch for people who can't debate intelligently, but sometimes one has to call a spade a spade (not to be racist).

[Hicksey]

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

What was the context that you were called bigotted/homophobe/racist? What were these "other-than-left-of-centre" beliefs that provoked that response? I agree that name-calling is a crutch for people who can't debate intelligently, but sometimes one has to call a spade a spade (not to be racist).

Well, for starters:

I am not in favor of 'gay marriage', I am in favor of taking 'marriage' back from the government and making all 'marriages', 'unions'--heterosexual or homosexual. Despite my not being favor of 'gay marriage', I have been in favor of finally bestowing upon homosexuals the relationship rights they should have always had. Regardless of my beliefs about homosexuality, I still believe humans should have the same rights within relationships no matter their partner.

[JMH]

During the last couple of months, while Greg has been busy with the impending and then birth of his first child, the level of debate and maturity here at Maple has dropped steadily, to the point where direct personal insults and obscenities are being regularly hurled back and forth. I admit to having been provoked into responding somewhat in kind, but I have to say I'm tired of it. If people can't control themselves any better it might be neccessary to start reporting these kinds of posts to the moderator rather than responding in kind.

"If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear". G. Orwell.

Sound framiliar?

On the same note however, I do agree that things have become nasty as opposed to substantive (myself included).

I think that Canadians have become too polarized as a result of the latest political scandals/elections/scandals/elections. I look to the south and it's a frightening reminder as to where this mindset can lead. Political parties in this nation are virtually the same and sometimes we forget this. We, as a people are "moderates" and our choices reflect this.

My genuine feeling is that anyone spending time on this website IS POLITICALY AWARE, and the majority of Canada is not. I'm certain that this infuriates all of us ! So we take sides.........and go with it.

Realistically, there is very little to worry about these days. Of course there are special interests and the like but fundamentaly, our country is in good shape, and I don't see that changing for the majority anytime soon (regardless of what the fed alignment is).

I, like all of you, await the policy implementations of this goverment and the opening of the house of commons............but until then , lets not bother with speculation and fodder. I've said it before and I'll say it again...........I don't feel this new government is in the buisness of flushing their power down the toilette.

Lets wait and see.

[betsy]

It is the personal barbs and personal insults that truly stinks...and infuriates in this forum.

It is so tempting to sink to this low level and start firing away....and if posters start getting infuriated to respond in kind, this forum will end up being trash.

It is good to know that there are at least only a couple of ones I've seen (unless I've missed some other posts) who seem to hurl personal insults freely and have total disregard for the rules in this forum that have been explicitly explained.

For the sake of protecting this place from turning into one of those trashy forums that ends up attracting foul-mouthed posters (you probably know the kinds I mean)....then rules ought to be implemented. It is impossible I guess for the moderator to follow every thread...therefore, it is up to us to either warn off anyone who steps over the line...and report if the problem persists.

[BubberMiley]

I am not in favor of 'gay marriage', I am in favor of taking 'marriage' back from the government and making all 'marriages', 'unions'--heterosexual or homosexual. Despite my not being favor of 'gay marriage', I have been in favor of finally bestowing upon homosexuals the relationship rights they should have always had. Regardless of my beliefs about homosexuality, I still believe humans should have the same rights within relationships no matter their partner.

If you were called homophobic for an argument like that, clearly your debater didn't have the skills to come up with an adequate response. And not to get into that debate, because frankly I'm a little tired of it, but it sounds to me like your solution is just a matter of semantics (union, marriage, whatever) and that people in a union would consider and refer to themselves as married whether they were married in a church or not. So ultimately you would have gay marriage anyway.

[Hicksey]

I am not in favor of 'gay marriage', I am in favor of taking 'marriage' back from the government and making all 'marriages', 'unions'--heterosexual or homosexual. Despite my not being favor of 'gay marriage', I have been in favor of finally bestowing upon homosexuals the relationship rights they should have always had. Regardless of my beliefs about homosexuality, I still believe humans should have the same rights within relationships no matter their partner.

If you were called homophobic for an argument like that, clearly your debater didn't have the skills to come up with an adequate response. And not to get into that debate, because frankly I'm a little tired of it, but it sounds to me like your solution is just a matter of semantics (union, marriage, whatever) and that people in a union would consider and refer to themselves as married whether they were married in a church or not. So ultimately you would have gay marriage anyway.

Thanks. You might be surprised to hear that the poster who called me a bigot for this argument had initials BD.

I like my solution from three standpoints. It respects the institution of marriage, from the standpoint of tradition. It makes everyone equal before the law. It lends to letting people celebrate their union as they please and it leaves it up to people and their religious beliefs or lack thereof. I think its the fairest to all involved and respects tradition.

[Argus]

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

What was the context that you were called bigotted/homophobe/racist? What were these "other-than-left-of-centre" beliefs that provoked that response? I agree that name-calling is a crutch for people who can't debate intelligently, but sometimes one has to call a spade a spade (not to be racist).

The point is you are not permitted to "call a spade a spade" here. You may attack the opinion given but may not attack the person for giving that opinion. It's very clearly set out in the rules. I suggest you visit them. Calling someone a bigot/racist, whatever, is against the rules and can get you banned. Call the words bigoted and racist if you desire, and explain why. Leave the person alone.

[Hicksey]

More than anything I am sick of being called bigotted/homophobe/racist/etc for holding beliefs other than left of center.

What was the context that you were called bigotted/homophobe/racist? What were these "other-than-left-of-centre" beliefs that provoked that response? I agree that name-calling is a crutch for people who can't debate intelligently, but sometimes one has to call a spade a spade (not to be racist).

The point is you are not permitted to "call a spade a spade" here. You may attack the opinion given but may not attack the person for giving that opinion. It's very clearly set out in the rules. I suggest you visit them. Calling someone a bigot/racist, whatever, is against the rules and can get you banned. Call the words bigoted and racist if you desire, and explain why. Leave the person alone.

If only that were reality around here.

I really hate to have to run to the moderators. In the past, I would simply leave because such behavior meant the moderators couldn't keep control of their board. But this is a larger board and I understand they cannot read every post in every thread to ensure the rules are being upheld. So, I've simply decided to sit in the shadows and wait for a good debate and I've compiled and ignore list. But if the quality of debate continues to wane, I'll definitely either leave or start going to the mod forum with every violation I see.

Having said that I feel I should disclose that, after being called stupid I myself erred once and called someone and idiot. It's definitely not a post I'm proud of, and one I am determined not to repeat.

[BubberMiley]

The point is you are not permitted to "call a spade a spade" here. You may attack the opinion given but may not attack the person for giving that opinion. It's very clearly set out in the rules. I suggest you visit them. Calling someone a bigot/racist, whatever, is against the rules and can get you banned. Call the words bigoted and racist if you desire, and explain why. Leave the person alone.

I agree with that completely. That's why I wonder why you have made what you call "indirect insults" within this very thread. I don't know what makes them indirect other than their wordiness, but they certainly go against the spirit of the guidelines which clearly state: "Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it)."