Yale historian Timothy Snyder: How to Stop Fascism

[Five of swords]

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

He fires them and replaces until he gets cooperation. Haven't you been paying attention?

I guess you are that lDIOT since no one said ANYTHING about Canada invading Russia.

Only us Americans can and do that sort of thing. LMAO

Russia isn't invading the usa, either

[suds]

13 hours ago, Hodad said:

If "Joe and the Dems" and had ANY interest in dictatorship and controlled those institutions, it would be over already. But they don't have any interest in dictatorship and they don't control those institutions--nor do they seek to. 

A dictatorship ..... no.  Because it's almost impossible to achieve one in the U.S. with all its checks and balances and the power sharing between state and federal governments. What the democrats want is a 'pseudo democracy' where they as the ruling party completely monopolize the political system ( and of which WestCanMan provided a number of ways and means in which they hope to achieve that role).

[robosmith]

15 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Russia isn't invading the usa, either

Well, Duh

We're not planning to invade Russia either.

Worst case is we up the game in defending Ukraine.

[robosmith]

9 minutes ago, suds said:

A dictatorship ..... no.  Because it's almost impossible to achieve one in the U.S. with all its checks and balances and the power sharing between state and federal governments. What the democrats want is a 'pseudo democracy' where they as the ruling party completely monopolize the political system ( and of which WestCanMan provided a number of ways and means in which they hope to achieve that role).

You must be talking about RepubliCONS, since they are the ONLY ones who keep manipulating the economy and street thugs to put Party over country.

Ever hear of Karl Rove's "permanent Republican majority"?

Or Trump's numerous efforts to overturn the election? IF Pence had cooperated, there's no telling what this SCOTUS would have done about it.

[Five of swords]

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Well, Duh

We're not planning to invade Russia either.

Worst case is we up the game in defending Ukraine.

Russia has already killed various us soldiers that were fighting for Ukraine. Clearly, the usa is very focused on this issue, which lends credence to the idea that Russia was forced to invade.

 

Just like nobody cared when Stalin absorbed Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, and poland...but suddenly cared very much when Germany got involved

[Nationalist]

50 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Issuing an Executive Order is NEVER a crime Dweebly Dee.

Ok...remember you said that...

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Five of swords said:

See, this is the issue with you people thinking you know a lot about the history just because you watched Steven Spielberg movies. You should be aware of what you actually do not know.

 

Kid, you didn't even know there was a treaty between poland and britian. That's how ignorant you were. That's such a simple thing. And you didn't know it. 

You're clearly wrong across the board and unfortunately for you i actually HAVE studied the history so you can't bullshit me.  

So what is this? Why are you trying to appologize for hitler despite the obvious truth he wanted to expand germany by conquest?  Some sort of weird hero worship or something? it takes a lot of work to twist history THAT out of shape. 

 

 

[suds]

15 minutes ago, robosmith said:

He fires them and replaces until he gets cooperation. Haven't you been paying attention?

Again you're over simplifying things.  Are there no laws that prevent a President from getting the DOJ to go out and kill his political opponents or anyone else that stands in his way? I'm betting there are, and that being the case (as with Hitler and Chavez), he would have to have the authority to legislate new laws and enforce them. Now that might be a bit of a hurdle I would imagine, but I'm sure you've got a few ideas about that little obstacle also.

 

[suds]

9 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You must be talking about RepubliCONS, since they are the ONLY ones who keep manipulating the economy and street thugs to put Party over country.

Ever hear of Karl Rove's "permanent Republican majority"?

Or Trump's numerous efforts to overturn the election? IF Pence had cooperated, there's no telling what this SCOTUS would have done about it.

I doubt there's a political party anywhere that puts country over party. If there was I'd vote for them. But unlike you I'm not a true believer in the sense that mainstream political parties can be seen as being black or white. The democrats claim to be the defenders of democracy while they engage in a number of things that are clearly undemocratic. Same for the republicans.

[Five of swords]

55 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Kid, you didn't even know there was a treaty between poland and britian. That's how ignorant you were. That's such a simple thing. And you didn't know it. 

You're clearly wrong across the board and unfortunately for you i actually HAVE studied the history so you can't bullshit me.  

So what is this? Why are you trying to appologize for hitler despite the obvious truth he wanted to expand germany by conquest?  Some sort of weird hero worship or something? it takes a lot of work to twist history THAT out of shape. 

 

 

You haven't studied the history.

 

And I never said there wasn't a treaty between poland and thr uk (and usa, in fact). So I doubt your reading comprehension.

Edited July 13, 2024 by Five of swords

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Five of swords said:

Russia has already killed various us soldiers that were fighting for Ukraine. Clearly, the usa is very focused on this issue, which lends credence to the idea that Russia was forced to invade.

Random US volunteers joined the Ukraine army ignoring State Dept advice to stay away. 

2 hours ago, Five of swords said:

Just like nobody cared when Stalin absorbed Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, and poland...but suddenly cared very much when Germany got involved

Germany EXPLOITED the resources of the countries they conquered to grow stronger and take MORE nations.

Of course we cared that too many nations would fall under the control of a madman who aimed to take over the world. Duh

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, suds said:

Again you're over simplifying things.  Are there no laws that prevent a President from getting the DOJ to go out and kill his political opponents or anyone else that stands in his way? I'm betting there are, and that being the case (as with Hitler and Chavez), he would have to have the authority to legislate new laws and enforce them. Now that might be a bit of a hurdle I would imagine, but I'm sure you've got a few ideas about that little obstacle also.

 

Of course there are laws, but the DoJ is on record that POTUS cannot be prosecuted while in office according to an OLC memo.

If the SCOTUS sides with the POTUS, he can do ANYTHING. And even if they don't who's going to enforce their decisions?

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, suds said:

I doubt there's a political party anywhere that puts country over party. If there was I'd vote for them. But unlike you I'm not a true believer in the sense that mainstream political parties can be seen as being black or white. The democrats claim to be the defenders of democracy while they engage in a number of things that are clearly undemocratic. Same for the republicans.

Who told you Democrats are undemocratic? FOS LIES? LMAO

I know they're going around screaming about "lawfare," but that is just BULLSHIT cause the evidence against Trump is VERY STRONG, and it is JURIES who indicted and convicted him.

[Five of swords]

49 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Random US volunteers joined the Ukraine army ignoring State Dept advice to stay away. 

Germany EXPLOITED the resources of the countries they conquered to grow stronger and take MORE nations.

Of course we cared that too many nations would fall under the control of a madman who aimed to take over the world. Duh

The madman who wanted to dominate the world was Stalin, who western countries adored before anyone had even heard of Hitler. There is no evidence that Hitler wanted to do anything but unite the germans under one banner.

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Five of swords said:

The madman who wanted to dominate the world was Stalin, who western countries adored before anyone had even heard of Hitler. There is no evidence that Hitler wanted to do anything but unite the germans under one banner.

Then why did they invade France and several other countries like Northern Africa and Europe?

Believe it or not, Hitler was Stalin's ALLY. And you're STILL IGNORING the MILLIONS of civilians he MURDERED.

You're not making any sense. Until you face reality, just don't bother.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Five of swords said:

You haven't studied the history.

Oh really? So you're saying britian DIDN'T sign a treaty with poland?  

And yes you DID say there wasn't one when you claimed that britian and france only attacked germany because they hated them and there was no other reason. When you ask 'what reason did france and britian have for declaring war?  - that pretty much  proves you didn't realize that this agreement was in place or why. 

Anglo-Polish alliance - Wikipedia

And there was the munich agreement. 

In ww1 germany attacked without much reason and millions died.  France and britain wanted to prevent that happening again and said if you start invading countries around you then we'll be at war.  Germany said 'Fine but i want this land and that land"  Which was given to them.  Then they attacked anyway without any justification. 

That's the history of it. 

When you say germany did nothing wrong, you prove you haven't read a single scrap of history. 

 

 

[Five of swords]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Oh really? So you're saying britian DIDN'T sign a treaty with poland?  

And yes you DID say there wasn't one when you claimed that britian and france only attacked germany because they hated them and there was no other reason. When you ask 'what reason did france and britian have for declaring war?  - that pretty much  proves you didn't realize that this agreement was in place or why. 

Anglo-Polish alliance - Wikipedia

And there was the munich agreement. 

In ww1 germany attacked without much reason and millions died.  France and britain wanted to prevent that happening again and said if you start invading countries around you then we'll be at war.  Germany said 'Fine but i want this land and that land"  Which was given to them.  Then they attacked anyway without any justification. 

That's the history of it. 

When you say germany did nothing wrong, you prove you haven't read a single scrap of history. 

 

 

Face-palm. Again, I will ask why the uk did not declare war on the ussr.

5 hours ago, robosmith said:

Then why did they invade France and several other countries like Northern Africa and Europe?

Believe it or not, Hitler was Stalin's ALLY. And you're STILL IGNORING the MILLIONS of civilians he MURDERED.

You're not making any sense. Until you face reality, just don't bother.

They invaded france because france declared war on Germany 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Five of swords said:

Face-palm. Again, I will ask why the uk did not declare war on the ussr.

 

Why would they.   Russia has made it plain for years that if there was a german invasion of poland that they would move forward into poland to create a buffer and also that they would engage the germans if they were granted passage by poland. Britian and france agreed to that, poland was reluctant (fearing the russians may not leave) but the british suggested that russia should sign an agreement with them to do just that even if poland disagreed.  It was ALWAYS part of the british's plan that russia would invade if germany did. 

Which you'd know if you'd read any of this history. 

You're dumber than a sack of hammers. 

2 hours ago, Five of swords said:

They invaded france because france declared war on Germany 

The plan to use the ardennes to bypass the maginot line had been worked out ages before. The documents are clear. Going after france and the low countries was ALWAYS part of their plan and we know that as historic fact. 

Even a sack of hammers would think you're dumb for that one. 

Jezuz kid - do they let you on the internet during recess or something? ALL of this is very easily verified with just a little work. 

[Five of swords]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Why would they.   Russia has made it plain for years that if there was a german invasion of poland that they would move forward into poland to create a buffer and also that they would engage the germans if they were granted passage by poland. Britian and france agreed to that, poland was reluctant (fearing the russians may not leave) but the british suggested that russia should sign an agreement with them to do just that even if poland disagreed.  It was ALWAYS part of the british's plan that russia would invade if germany did. 

Which you'd know if you'd read any of this history. 

You're dumber than a sack of hammers. 

The plan to use the ardennes to bypass the maginot line had been worked out ages before. The documents are clear. Going after france and the low countries was ALWAYS part of their plan and we know that as historic fact. 

Even a sack of hammers would think you're dumb for that one. 

Jezuz kid - do they let you on the internet during recess or something? ALL of this is very easily verified with just a little work. 

So I guess the very basic logic that if the uk really cared about the borders of poland they would have declared war on Russia went over your head...fascinating. 

[Five of swords]

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Why would they.   Russia has made it plain for years that if there was a german invasion of poland that they would move forward into poland to create a buffer and also that they would engage the germans if they were granted passage by poland. Britian and france agreed to that, poland was reluctant (fearing the russians may not leave) but the british suggested that russia should sign an agreement with them to do just that even if poland disagreed.  It was ALWAYS part of the british's plan that russia would invade if germany did. 

Which you'd know if you'd read any of this history. 

You're dumber than a sack of hammers. 

The plan to use the ardennes to bypass the maginot line had been worked out ages before. The documents are clear. Going after france and the low countries was ALWAYS part of their plan and we know that as historic fact. 

Even a sack of hammers would think you're dumb for that one. 

Jezuz kid - do they let you on the internet during recess or something? ALL of this is very easily verified with just a little work. 

So let's review the discussion here. 

 

I am claiming that Germany did not want war with the uk, but the uk wanted war with Germany. 

 

You are 'informing me' that the uk had some military agreement with poland.

 

Yes...indeed. in fact many British politicians were upset that the issue between Hitler and czechoslovakia was resolved peacefully. And Hitler found a LOT of military gear in czechoslovakia when he added to his arsenal...but it clearly suggested that czeckoslovakia was preparing for war against Germany (they can hardly even go anywhere else, given their location) and their arming efforts were without question being funded and supported by western powers. Interesting first note.

 

So after that frusterating peaceful resolution, the uk rushed a border guaruntee with poland (which decided to absorb danzig, contrary to the terms of the Versailles treaty)...because the uk observed that there was increasing tension between Germany and Poland. 

 

You are even offering that the uk deliberately wrote in a double standard for the ussr...because they wanted war with Germany but not the ussr.

 

And you don't even have the logic neurons to see how all of these things actually support my claim and not yours.

 

Since you claim to be so educated, I am sure you are aware that Hitler offered a grand peace proposal in 1936, with very fair terms and if followed by all relevant member states woukd have prevented the escalation to ww2. This proposal was rejected by the uk and france. Any theory about why?

Edited July 14, 2024 by Five of swords

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Five of swords said:

So I guess the very basic logic that if the uk really cared about the borders of poland they would have declared war on Russia went over your head...fascinating. 

So i guess that the very basic fact that the uk had already agreed that in the event of a german attack on poland russia would enter poland as a buffer and would look to engage the germans if poland allowed escaped you......  boring. 

Kid you're too stupid for this discussion.  As I ALREADY POINTED OUT russia crosing the border into poland in the event of a german attack was already agreed upon 

You're an !diot. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Five of swords said:

So let's review the discussion here. 

Sure. 

You lied and said a bunch of crap. I asked you to cite any source for any of it and you said there are no souces for any of this, you just have to KNOW it 🙄

You also claimed france and britain had absolutely no reason to declare war when germany invaded poland.  I pointed out there were actually a number of treaties requiring this.  YOu said 'Oh... er.. yah i knew that but.. (mumble mumble)

You then tried to claim that the only reason germany attacked france was because they declared war.   I pointed out that we have the historical documents showing this attack was planned long long before france declared war and before hostilities commenced. It was always the plan to attack france and the low countries. 

You then tried to claim that if britain REALLY cared they would have declared war on russia when THEY crossed the border. 

I then pointed out that this was always the plan and that russia and britian had agreed on this before the war.  

 

And now you look like a basement dwelling loser who doesn't have the first clue about history, or how history works or how to research it. 

Kid - you could not have announced what a monumental failure you are better if you had tried.  If you're going to stick around, start doing better or you'll just become part of the comic relief. 

[Five of swords]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure. 

You lied and said a bunch of crap. I asked you to cite any source for any of it and you said there are no souces for any of this, you just have to KNOW it 🙄

You also claimed france and britain had absolutely no reason to declare war when germany invaded poland.  I pointed out there were actually a number of treaties requiring this.  YOu said 'Oh... er.. yah i knew that but.. (mumble mumble)

You then tried to claim that the only reason germany attacked france was because they declared war.   I pointed out that we have the historical documents showing this attack was planned long long before france declared war and before hostilities commenced. It was always the plan to attack france and the low countries. 

You then tried to claim that if britain REALLY cared they would have declared war on russia when THEY crossed the border. 

I then pointed out that this was always the plan and that russia and britian had agreed on this before the war.  

 

And now you look like a basement dwelling loser who doesn't have the first clue about history, or how history works or how to research it. 

Kid - you could not have announced what a monumental failure you are better if you had tried.  If you're going to stick around, start doing better or you'll just become part of the comic relief. 

Yeah...you aren't going to find some snopes fact check that actually France and the uk forced ww2 to happen.

 

The reason you won't find that is because the moral legitimacy of the current usa is based on thr myth that they defeated Hitler, the greatest evil in history. 

 

And you apparently are personally invested in that myth. As if the usa actually cares about you. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Five of swords said:

Yeah...you aren't going to find some snopes fact check that actually France and the uk forced ww2 to happen.

Becuase it's a lie,  Sorry. 

Quote

The reason you won't find that is because the moral legitimacy of the current usa is based on thr myth that they defeated Hitler, the greatest evil in history. 

 

No, the reason is it's a  lie. There's more than enough evidence of how ww2 came about and it wasn't that england or france forced it. Sorry. 

 

About the best you could possibly manage would be to say that the Treaty of Versailles which was insisted upon by the french left conditions in germany so bad that it opened the door for an extremist like hitler to rise to power. But that isn't remotely the same thing as them causing the war, and you have to actually know history to make that argument and you very clearly don't.

 

Quote

And you apparently are personally invested in that myth. As if the usa actually cares about you. 

I'm interested in truth. And i have no idea why you'd bring up the usa caring about anybody, that's just dumb. 

[Five of swords]

16 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Becuase it's a lie,  Sorry. 

No, the reason is it's a  lie. There's more than enough evidence of how ww2 came about and it wasn't that england or france forced it. Sorry. 

 

About the best you could possibly manage would be to say that the Treaty of Versailles which was insisted upon by the french left conditions in germany so bad that it opened the door for an extremist like hitler to rise to power. But that isn't remotely the same thing as them causing the war, and you have to actually know history to make that argument and you very clearly don't.

 

I'm interested in truth. And i have no idea why you'd bring up the usa caring about anybody, that's just dumb. 

Oh...you care about truth?

 

Then try managing to truthfully answer the actual question I asked at the very start.

If france/uk really just cared about poland and were scared about some evil dictator trying to conquer the world...why did they declare war on Germany instead of Stalin? Why not even declare on both? They did have a pact at that point...right?

 

Just explain that. In some way consistent to your fake narrative.