English patient refused treatment

[Leafless]

A Cornwall Ont. women has been refused treatment at a public clinic because she couldn't speak French.

Although this story made headlines all over there is hardly no mention of it on-line but have got reference to it from a local seaway newspaper.

The point in this matter is despite Ontario not being officially bilingual policies are being developed by the federal government and Ontario provincial government and through the French Language Services Act of Ontario, Ontario is slowly becoming officially bilingual while Quebec has no bilingual policies of any kind.

This is particuallrry bad in Ottawa where all hospitals are now bilingual with a completely French Montfort hospital but that one is open to English patients also but funded by tax payers of Ontario the same as French school boards in Ontario. Many stores now only hire bilingual help.

This of course makes it difficult for the majority English in Ottawa to find work in their own language without being bilingual and allows French residents of Quebec to pour across the border or moving to Ottawa occupying a whole host of bilingual jobs.

I find this situation totally unacceptable and discriminatory which was initially spearheaded by the Liberals along with the premier of Ontario who is a Liberal sympathizer.

The bottom line is the majority English language of Ontario is not being protected by both federal and provincial politicans who refuse to allow or promote a referendum in Ontario to officially end this outright discrimination aginst the English.

http://seawayvalley.com/localnews/localnews.shtml

Check out where public funding goes to under the Ontario French Language Services Act.

http://www.ofa.gov.on.ca/english/FLSA-desig-list.html

[seabee]

This of course makes it difficult for the majority English in Ottawa to find work in their own language without being bilingual and allows French residents of Quebec to pour across the border or moving to Ottawa occupying a whole host of bilingual jobs.

If a "French" (I take it you mean french-speaking or francophone, as French means being a citizen of France) resident of Québec goes to Ontario and gets a bilingual job there, it is because this person is bilingual, i.e. has spent the time and energy to learn a second language. And if an english-speaking person from Ottawa does not get the billingual job, it is because this person is not bilingual, i.e. has not spent the time and energy to satisfy the job requirements.

No discrimination here.

[Leafless]

Seabee

You wrote- " If a French ( I take it you mean french -speaking or francophone, as French means being a citizen of France)."

French= Having the characteristics attributed to the French people, noun, 1.- The language of France also used in Belgium, Switzerland, Canada and elsewhere.

Francophone=French speaking person.

So in fact with you replying in English, technically you are not a francophone since you are not replying in French but a bilingual speaking person both French and English but with a French mother tongue.

I am officially English only and not bilingual.

You also wrote- " And if an English speaking person from Ottawa does not get a bilingual job, it is because this person is not bilingual, i.e. has not spent the time and energy to satisfy the job requirements. No dicrimination here."

Let me get this straight.

Your saying an English speaking person in a city that is majority English and in a province that is majority English and that is not OFFICIALLY BILINGUAL must take the time and energy to speak French in order to get a job in his or her majority English city and province.

If this is not outright dicrimination against English speaking residents of Ontario I don't know what is.

I would just like to point out any form of bilingual promotion in Ottawa and throughout Ontario was done above the wishes of the residents of Ontario by mainly the federal Liberals , the premier of Ontario a Liberal supporter , the mayor of Ottawa a loyal Liberal supporter is an undemocratic, totalitarian effort to destroy the majority English influence and presence.

[Army Guy]

Is there not a double standard here, those bilingual postions were created in ont so that Canadians could be provided with services in both offical languages. Correct me if i'm wrong. but i thought this whole program of providing all government services in both languages was created so that ALL Canadians both french and english could be served in thier mother tongues.

Is this a private Hospital, is it funded by any level of goverment?. Are those postions in that hospital Bilingual? sounds like a form of discrimination to me.

[Black Dog]

A Cornwall Ont. women has been refused treatment at a public clinic because she couldn't speak French.

Although this story made headlines all over there is hardly no mention of it on-line but have got reference to it from a local seaway newspaper.

On the one hand I can see the point about discrimination blah blah. But, according to th elink provided, the clinic was a French clinic. Now I don't know the whle scoop, but it seems to me that an "English speaking person in a city that is majority English and in a province that is majority English and that is not OFFICIALLY BILINGUAL" shouldn't have a problem finding an English clinic. But I'd like to know the whole story.

[Leafless]

Army Guy

In the begining the justification for bilingualism within the federal public service was to provide federal services in both official languages but over the years now include to work in the official language of your choice.

I think there was initially a false impression that federal services meant replying or serving the public in English or French. But it is clear to-day federal services have been dismantled in a way to give minority francophones many other rights that equal rights that have always been socially correct according to the common majority language of the land English.

To somehow justify that French is just as important as English outside of Quebec is totally wrong and discriminates since their is NO official legislation for governments to be allowed to do this on their own in basically any province outside of officially bilingual New Brunswick.

Back to the Cornwall situation ...the hospital in question is a not a hospital but a publicly funded clinic.

I have a more detailed article then the only one I could find on-line and this women went to see her doctor who had just recently moved to this publicly funded clinic.

When she walked into the clinic the receptionist started talking French and told her she should not be there because she was speaking English and was told to go elsewhere.

Health Minister George Smitherman said there was nothing wrong with the way she was treated because her case wasn't urgent. David Spencer a spokesman for George Smitherman said " This is not a typical clinic or doctor's office and that it is a community organization that offers health care to a specific population that has had difficultiy receiving health services."

He also said "This center is focused on the francophone population. without it, access to primary health care would be extremely difficult for most francophones in Cornwall."

But Cornwall Coucillor Mark MacDonald questioned that positon. He said he went to that health clinic May 2004 and when he identified himself as a city politician, centre employees told him they treat English speaking patients. He visted that clinic because they were looking for a city grant.

Mr. Mc.Donald said he suspects he was not told the truth initially and wants an investigation by the Ministry of Health.

This to me sounds like discrimination also and is the direct result of allowing funding that in turn manipulates the linguistc agenda thus forming two rival groups English vs. French.

This is not good medicine and I tink if a French group wants that type of control ...do it with your own money.

[Riverwind]

Your saying an English speaking person in a city that is majority English and in a province that is majority English and that is not OFFICIALLY BILINGUAL must take the time and energy to speak French in order to get a job in his or her majority English city and province.

You would have a very hard time finding a job in many retail stores in Richmond if you don't speak a dialect of Chinese. Is this discrimination or businesses looking after their clientel?

[fixer1]

It would not be discrimination for a private club to have a rule that all members must speak french or any other language. I agree with that as long as my public tax dollars are not supporting the club. The same should be for medical clinics if they are private and not using public funds. The trouble with this is the clinic in Cornwal is part of the public system. The doctor should also be made aware that he is spending more time at the private clinic that has language restrictions and that maybe it would be better to divide his time more in line with the percentage of the population on a language basis. It is more of the doctors call then any other thing. Welcome to the private medical clinics. Once it is outside the public domain nothing can be done.

[Leafless]

Sparhawk

You wrote- " You would have a very hard time finding a job in many retail stores in Richmond if you don't speak a dialect of Chinese. Is this discrimination or buisnesses lookng after their clientel?"

If there is no government involvement and this is a culture serving mainly the same culture, there are no laws concerning this type of patronage.

But on the same token it does not say much for our federal government not doing a better job at assimilation or allowing much of a province to be dominated by a certain foreign culture.

This is contributing to fractionization of Canadians into different cultural groups which is the root cause of many problems.

[tml12]

Sparhawk

You wrote- " You would have a very hard time finding a job in many retail stores in Richmond if you don't speak a dialect of Chinese. Is this discrimination or buisnesses lookng after their clientel?"

If there is no government involvement and this is a culture serving mainly the same culture, there are no laws concerning this type of patronage.

But on the same token it does not say much for our federal government not doing a better job at assimilation or allowing much of a province to be dominated by a certain foreign culture.

This is contributing to fractionization of Canadians into different cultural groups which is the root cause of many problems.

Oh I'm sorry I thought immigrants to this country had to speak English to immigrate here...

[tml12]

It would not be discrimination for a private club to have a rule that all members must speak french or any other language. I agree with that as long as my public tax dollars are not supporting the club. The same should be for medical clinics if they are private and not using public funds. The trouble with this is the clinic in Cornwal is part of the public system. The doctor should also be made aware that he is spending more time at the private clinic that has language restrictions and that maybe it would be better to divide his time more in line with the percentage of the population on a language basis. It is more of the doctors call then any other thing. Welcome to the private medical clinics. Once it is outside the public domain nothing can be done.

Fair enough Fixer.

[Argus]

This of course makes it difficult for the majority English in Ottawa to find work in their own language without being bilingual and allows French residents of Quebec to pour across the border or moving to Ottawa occupying a whole host of bilingual jobs.

If a "French" (I take it you mean french-speaking or francophone, as French means being a citizen of France) resident of Québec goes to Ontario and gets a bilingual job there, it is because this person is bilingual, i.e. has spent the time and energy to learn a second language. And if an english-speaking person from Ottawa does not get the billingual job, it is because this person is not bilingual, i.e. has not spent the time and energy to satisfy the job requirements.

No discrimination here.

Unless, of course, the requirement is artificially created in order to create more power and jobs for Francophones. Which is largely the case.

If you go to any of Ottawa's hospitals, and check out the employee parking, you'll find row after row after row of cars with Quebec licence plates. This is how bilingualism took hold here. The government artificially named many jobs in the public sector as bilingual. Tens of thousands of Francophones were brought in to fill these jobs. Their presence then caused the government to decide that bilingualism must spread farther and wider. More francophones were brought in to fill the new bilingual jobs.

Two thirds of federal jobs in Ottawa are mandated as bilingual - even though almost none of them have contact with the public.

It seems to me that the Cornwall thing is similar. Imagine the howl if a Francophone was denied service because he didn't speak English and the clinic was only for Anglophones! Apparently all area hospitals are mandated bilingual, and in all likelihood most clinics would have bilingual staff. Yet there has to be a French only clinic.

During the argument over closing down the French hospital in Ottawa, many French politicians derided the fact that the big Ottawa hospitals had been made bilingual - even the ones who had gotten their health services there. Bilingual wasn't good enough! There must be French only!

Bilingualism in many jobs is merely a means to allow poorly skilled Francophones to be hired over much more capable Anglophones.

[Wilber]

Refusing medical treatment on the basis of language. South Africa used to do stuff like that. They called it Aparthied. Don't Quebec doctors take the Hypocratic oath?

[Argus]

Refusing medical treatment on the basis of language. South Africa used to do stuff like that. They called it Aparthied. Don't Quebec doctors take the Hypocratic oath?

Cornwall is in Ontario. And it was a receptionist who refused treatment.

[Wilber]

Refusing medical treatment on the basis of language. South Africa used to do stuff like that. They called it Aparthied. Don't Quebec doctors take the Hypocratic oath?

Cornwall is in Ontario. And it was a receptionist who refused treatment.

Even worse.

[Leafless]

Argus

You wrote- " Cornwall is in Ontario. And it was a receptionist who refused treatment."

Health Minister George Smitherman as already indicated in this thread did not specifically say this was a 'francophone only' clinic but said " The centre is focussed on the francophone population . Without it access to primary health care would be extremely difficult for most francophones in Cornwall ."

In saying this is it to be implied that francophones do not have to learn English in Ontario. And if this is the case would this not suggest Ontario is 'officially bilingual' with all tax payers of Ontario footing the bill for French services even though Ontario is NOT 'offically bilingual'.

Already in Ottawa ALL major hospitals are designated bilingual including the large Montfort hospital which specifically caters to francophones as well as being a teaching hospital that also allows doctors from Quebec to trian in all at the expebse of the Ontario tax payer.

I see this as a delibrate ploy as an unjust transfer of power to create many francophone positons within the medical field in Ottawa and throughout the province of Ontario.

But again I emphasis the fact most francophones are not truly francophones but bilingual persons with a French mother tongue taking advantage of francophone idenification thus falsley acquiring jobs and power under the title francophone, meaning French speaking only.

In Quebec there are NO RIGHTS of any kind pertaining to the English language.

[concerned citizen]

A Cornwall Ont. women has been refused treatment at a public clinic because she couldn't speak French.

Although this story made headlines all over there is hardly no mention of it on-line but have got reference to it from a local seaway newspaper.

On the one hand I can see the point about discrimination blah blah. But, according to th elink provided, the clinic was a French clinic. Now I don't know the whle scoop, but it seems to me that an "English speaking person in a city that is majority English and in a province that is majority English and that is not OFFICIALLY BILINGUAL" shouldn't have a problem finding an English clinic. But I'd like to know the whole story.

The whole story is that the lady in question wanted to see her doctor and no one else. Her doctor works in 2 different clinics and on the day in question he was working at the French only clinic. Now as a resident of Cornwall I am extremely amused at how this is all blown out of pro-portion.

It isn't like there weren't english language services available. In fact this is the only french-only clinic in a town where approximately half the population has french as their mother tongue.

what is most likely the case is that the patient got upset with the way the secretary talked to her and this is her reaction to it.

The reason it's not a wide spread story is that there is no story. Some woman just throwing a hissy fit because she didn't get her way. She had a cold for crying out loud. It wasn't like it was any life threatening condition.

[Leafless]

concerned citizen

You wrote- " In fact this is the only French clinic in a town where approx. half the population has french as their mother tongue."

It was reported by the Ottawa Citizen Fri. Feb. 24, 2006 Sec. D1 that your own city councillor Mark MacDonald who said "Cornwall is 30% French speaking" and that he visted this clinic in May 2004 and was told by centre employees they treat English speaking patients.

I think the point is more than anything else, is does any group in Ontario have a monoply on a publicly tax payer funded clinic to pick and choose who they treat on a basis of language? Why is this clinic not forced to comply to (although very questionable and discriminatory) bilingual requirements like every major hospital in Ottawa is required to do?

This is outright discrimination and focuses on the same level as tax payer funded French school boards while ignoring other cultures who desire the same benefits. If the French want their own school boards fine but they should be responsible for funding.

You also wrote- " She had a cold for crying out loud. It wasn't like it was a life threating coniditon."

What she had was a very bad cold put conservatively, one she could not shake. We have clinics where we are to and that's what they treat, relatively minor medical conditons with the more serious ones being farmed out to a major hospitals or specialists.

[Argus]

The whole story is that the lady in question wanted to see her doctor and no one else. Her doctor works in 2 different clinics and on the day in question he was working at the French only clinic. Now as a resident of Cornwall I am extremely amused at how this is all blown out of pro-portion.

It isn't like there weren't english language services available. In fact this is the only french-only clinic in a town where approximately half the population has french as their mother tongue.

You make it sound like this is the only clinic which provides services to Francophones. In fact, all hospitals and major clinics are bilingual, just as they are in Ottawa.

what is most likely the case is that the patient got upset with the way the secretary talked to her and this is her reaction to it.

The reason it's not a wide spread story is that there is no story. Some woman just throwing a hissy fit because she didn't get her way. She had a cold for crying out loud. It wasn't like it was any life threatening condition.

Imagine the fuss if a Francophone had been turned away from an English clinic. Not to mention the other woman turned away. SHe brought her son in, and spoke French to the receptionist, but when the receptionist heard her speaking English to her son she ordered them out the door. If a Francophone mother and son had been treated like that it would be the major story on every newscast across the country.

[yorkman]

It sounds to me as though this person went to a clinic designed to provide services in French to the French speaking citizens of Cornwall. It would not surprise me to learn that this person also knew that in advance if they had been a citizen of Cornwall for any length of time and not an outsider. In other words it sounds like a set up by one person in that small segment of the English speaking population of Eastern Ontario that sees francophones as a major threat to the rights of the majority English speaking population of Ontario. If anything, it is the French-speaking people of far Eastern Ontario that are under threat in a sea of English.

[Leafless]

yorkman

You wrote- " If anything it is the French speaking people of Eastern Ontario that are under threat in a sea of English"

I think the argument here is how can a minority language have a monoply on a French only clinic in Ontario when clinics and hospitals are publicly funded mainly by the majority English tax payers of Ontario.

Ontario is not 'officially bilingual' and bicultural policies are passe in favour of muticulturalism.

How can you possibly support a single language French hospital when English is the language of commerce with French being a residential language.

Are you aware people are losing their homes in Ontario due to high taxes?

Do you actually believe the majority of francophones in Ontario CANNOT speak English?

And if they can't what are they doing in a province that is not offically billingual. Don't you think they have a duty like they do in Quebec to become assimilated to the language of that province?

Don't you think the English have a right to protect their language and jobs in Ontario like they do in Quebec?

Why must Ontarians face the forces of a totalitarian federal governemt to provide bilingual services and give our jobs away on a basis of bilingualism when Quebec passes draconian laws to protect their language?

[shoop]

Uhhh actually her family doc, presumably bilingual, works at the clinic part-time. He recommended she visit him there.

But thanks for the conspiracy theory.

It sounds to me as though this person went to a clinic designed to provide services in French to the French speaking citizens of Cornwall. It would not surprise me to learn that this person also knew that in advance if they had been a citizen of Cornwall for any length of time and not an outsider. In other words it sounds like a set up by one person in that small segment of the English speaking population of Eastern Ontario that sees francophones as a major threat to the rights of the majority English speaking population of Ontario. If anything, it is the French-speaking people of far Eastern Ontario that are under threat in a sea of English.

[Argus]

It sounds to me as though this person went to a clinic designed to provide services in French to the French speaking citizens of Cornwall. It would not surprise me to learn that this person also knew that in advance if they had been a citizen of Cornwall for any length of time and not an outsider. In other words it sounds like a set up by one person in that small segment of the English speaking population of Eastern Ontario that sees francophones as a major threat to the rights of the majority English speaking population of Ontario.

It sounds to me as though you didn't bother to read the other posts on this subject.

If anything, it is the French-speaking people of far Eastern Ontario that are under threat in a sea of English.

Under threat? There are more Francophones in eastern Ontario than there have ever been in history.

Frankly, we'd all be better off if Francophones would stop fighting the flow of history which is trying to lead people towards a common tongue.

[yorkman]

I wonder if those complaining are the same ones who demonstrated in Ottawa on November 11, 2005.....saving Union Jacks. It seems as though some people in this country would only be happy if we returned to our colonial days. As for the momentum towards a common language - I assume you mean English. I think it is wonderful when people around the world can communicate with one another. Personally, I prefer a world where people maintain their cultures and languages and their different accents within language groups. Those too are fast disappearing as we become this common blob. Also, learning a few words in another language does not seem to be such a major effort - particularly if you are living in an are where there is a large population of francophones or Chinese, etc., etc.

[Wilber]

It sounds to me as though this person went to a clinic designed to provide services in French to the French speaking citizens of Cornwall. It would not surprise me to learn that this person also knew that in advance if they had been a citizen of Cornwall for any length of time and not an outsider. In other words it sounds like a set up by one person in that small segment of the English speaking population of Eastern Ontario that sees francophones as a major threat to the rights of the majority English speaking population of Ontario. If anything, it is the French-speaking people of far Eastern Ontario that are under threat in a sea of English.

An amazing post. The thought that anyone in this country could be refused medical treatment for any reason in any Province on the basis of language just blows me away.