Failure of the political system in America

[myata]

Yes: it's a factual, accomplished failure and there's no reason it had to be like this in the leading, till now, democracy of the world.

Under-performing and self-absorbed versus a patented liar and crook is not the choice a great democracy deserves.

The political system has failed the country. It did not live up to, failed its duty and responsibility to produce the best candidates, capable of leading the country on the basis of her traditions, principles and the Constitution. The situation here is the factual evidence of the failure. Citizens are left in a dire conundrum, the choice between an unwanted and outright impossible. No, it shouldn't be that way. A failure.

One of the qualities of a great leader is the responsibility and vision, the ability to measure and gauge personal ambitions against the good of the country and make the right choices. It failed too. The ambition prevailed and it wasn't the best choice for the country.

From here, the future of the great democracy of the past is in her citizen's hands. It has to be assured, and the political system that has failed needs to be fixed and renewed. A formidable task and not at all assured of the success. People can do away with their democracy, it happened numerous times in history. It is only a choice and a relatively easy one. Keep it going, on the other hand, is a work, effort and responsibility of free citizens. No promises or guarantees were given here.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

From here, the future of the great democracy of the past is in her citizen's hands. It has to be assured, and the political system that has failed needs to be fixed and renewed. A formidable task and not at all assured of the success. People can do away with their democracy, it happened numerous times in history. It is only a choice and a relatively easy one. Keep it going, on the other hand, is a work, effort and responsibility of free citizens. No promises or guarantees were given here.

Why 'From here '?

The people led us to this. An uninformed incurious electorate that despised wisdom and intelligence... Vote for cookie cutouts and be surprised.

The previous choice was between a lying game show host and a doddering old man trying to apply 90-year-old ideas to government. 

The citizens in their wisdom pick the same two guys 4 years later.

[myata]

42 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The people led us to this. An uninformed incurious electorate that despised wisdom and intelligence... Vote for cookie cutouts and be surprised.

Well, yes and no: a gradual, slow process of detachment and alienation. With "democracy as a circus", the destination. For a while it worked for the elites to simplify even dumb it down for the citizens, easier to run; it worked for the public too, it'll take care of itself somehow, nothing much to worry can go to the party.

Except the destination was and always is there. Every system needs attention, upkeep, cleanup and maintenance. The entropy, it just cannot be beat.

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, myata said:

1. Well, yes and no: a gradual, slow process of detachment and alienation.
2. With "democracy as a circus", the destination.
3. For a while it worked for the elites to simplify even dumb it down for the citizens, easier to run; it worked for the public too, it'll take care of itself somehow, nothing much to worry can go to the party.
4. Except the destination was and always is there. Every system needs attention, upkeep, cleanup and maintenance. The entropy, it just cannot be beat.

1. And dis-education.
2. Yes exactly.
3. Except that the so-called elites now run both parties and have no idea why the masses aren't jumping for joy over a record stock market.
4. Good wisdom there.  Systems are either designed, or not and in any case they develop organically.  And they collapse and die too.  The entropy may have doomed the whole system because it was supposed to be run for the people and BY the people but the people themselves have not been given upkeep, cleanup and maintenance.  They are running an excessively complicated democratic system by electing a game show host who plays a smart man on TV.
 

[myata]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

BY the people but the people themselves have not been given upkeep, cleanup and maintenance.  They are running an excessively complicated democratic system by electing a game show host who plays a smart man on TV.

Nothing new there. Democracy is the responsibility, and product of free citizens. It takes constant, minute and comprehensive attention and upkeep. Eternal engine of goodness and prosperity is only a fairy tale... that ends, always only one way.

[myata]

I don't care what the brainless crowd would say, it's about way more than what face will sit in some chair. It's about viability and survivability at this point, nothing less.

It's clear that Joe cannot think in terms of real problems facing him in real time - he simply doesn't connect with them, in his own space. He can be a decent placeholder, a faceplate for the speeches that were prepared for him, for his countless aides and advisers but of himself, real self and in the real time, I just didn't see much. So who will it be, who will face the new generation of aggressive, brutal dictators - Putins, Kims and others? Who will lead the resistance to them?

On the other side, we have a patented hotbull liar ready to give in and give up all without as much as trying to stand up. This is not great. At this, most critical time: nobody is in the head. No clear options. Imagine, Hitler with some soft fluffy pillow, across. What wouldn't he take? Why? But to face the test of Time one needs reason; strength and ressolve. It will not accept empty promises, overly lies, excuses or explanations unlike some of us. Not an easy one to figure out. No obvious ways. So if we want to see some continuation into the future we'll have to figure this one out. All of us, who can still think and stand. Or all of it can go up in a flap - the satellites, global Internet, Tiktok, nightly talk shows: all. In a snap of fingers, just like that. Rome knows.

[Fluffypants]

The only political system that failed is the Democrat party. The Republicans got a choice and whether you like it or not Trump is their choice.

Democrats got no choice it was all Biden even though they KNEW he was going to have problems. We have all been watch him stumble and bumble his way around and we all know how people feel about the economy and immigration right now.

It is never really the best candidate it is choose puppet A or choose puppet B. I am sure they can prop Biden up for another 4 years a la Weekend at Bernie's and keep the government humming along. Doesn't matter who is President the writing is on the wall on what the policies will be.

 

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Fluffypants said:

The Republicans got a choice and whether you like it or not Trump is their choice.

For a functional democracy it's a failed one. 0 out of 5, on the scale. Zero principles, honesty, integrity. Responsibility, for the acts and the future. Respect for the principles of democracy. Founding fathers are horrified at this choice. There wouldn't be much room any lower - while still a democracy. A collective achievement, sure.

[myata]

Let's look at factually: the nomination system can approve a patented crook; and a virtually unresponsive or close. No problem, stamp! Is it plain chaos mode, or already past it? What more evidence is needed that it's broken? How could it look that evidence, can it even be imagined?

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Fluffypants said:

The only political system that failed is the Democrat party. The Republicans got a choice and whether you like it or not Trump is their choice.

Democrats got no choice it was all Biden even though they KNEW he was going to have problems. We have all been watch him stumble and bumble his way around and we all know how people feel about the economy and immigration right now.

It is never really the best candidate it is choose puppet A or choose puppet B. I am sure they can prop Biden up for another 4 years a la Weekend at Bernie's and keep the government humming along. Doesn't matter who is President the writing is on the wall on what the policies will be.

 

You are either IGNORANT or LYING. Democrats had a choice, and Biden won that contest, because he has the experience and SUCCESS in OFFICE.

RFK, Jill Stein and Cornel West were REJECTED. 

Meanwhile you just ignore Trump's extensive gaffes, stumbles and bumbles.

[robosmith]

10 hours ago, myata said:

Under-performing and self-absorbed versus a patented liar and crook is not the choice a great democracy deserves.

We already HAVE performing and NOT self-absorbed whether you understand that or not.

No one paying attention would call Biden "self-absorbed," esp NOT in comparison to Trump.

Biden has gotten passed numerous BI-PARTISAN initiatives which is UNPRECEDENTED with such a CLOSELY DIVIDED CONGRESS.

[myata]

4 minutes ago, robosmith said:

RFK, Jill Stein and Cornel West were REJECTED. 

Does it mean that he is a better candidate now, than those who were rejected? Or the system failed the party, and the country by failing to select the best candidate for the country, not the one with the deepest roots in it?

[Nationalist]

Lol...LIBBIES...Trump is now kicking a55. Brandon is now faltering in plain view.

1 more term of Trump to begin straightening out this mess the Democrats have made, and then...

DeSantis?

Enjoy the election boys and girls.

Edited June 28, 2024 by Nationalist

[robosmith]

54 minutes ago, myata said:

Does it mean that he is a better candidate now, than those who were rejected?

The system RELIES on getting votes to win the general. The other candidates were UNABLE to get more votes in the primary, so what makes you believe they're more likely to win the general election?

54 minutes ago, myata said:

Or the system failed the party, and the country by failing to select the best candidate for the country, not the one with the deepest roots in it?

In democracy, getting the most votes IS THE SYSTEM and the Party exists to select the candidate which can get elected to the office which REQUIRES the most votes.

[myata]

11 hours ago, robosmith said:

In democracy, getting the most votes IS THE SYSTEM and the Party exists to select the candidate which can get elected to the office which REQUIRES the most votes.

Do you want to be on the same level of dumbness as the brain dead? Is it the best candidate to lead the country through the critical challenge, as the new Axis of tyrants is rising? If not then it's a failure. Who cares if you imagined some blossoming goodness in your mind and forgot about the reality? Who's listening to the explanations?

[myata]

So both candidates are unfit. Amazing is not the fact - no system will last forever and we knew no matter how persisted in forgetting; but how fast it happened. What if it was there all along though - only this is what it took to make us notice, and nothing less?

[Nationalist]

12 hours ago, robosmith said:

The system RELIES on getting votes to win the general. The other candidates were UNABLE to get more votes in the primary, so what makes you believe they're more likely to win the general election?

In democracy, getting the most votes IS THE SYSTEM and the Party exists to select the candidate which can get elected to the office which REQUIRES the most votes.

Such horseshit. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/democrats-mobilize-stop-rfk-jr-cutting-biden-rcna145952

 

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, myata said:

So both candidates are unfit. Amazing is not the fact - no system will last forever and we knew no matter how persisted in forgetting; but how fast it happened. What if it was there all along though - only this is what it took to make us notice, and nothing less?

The founding fathers indeed were aware that ignorance and the tyranny of the majority were concerns.

I might argue that Neil postman in his book warned that this was coming and perhaps inevitable. 

The contradiction of democracy seems to be that if it succeeds, the people will be elevated to to a state of indifference about government. 

The one thing that The two camps seem to agree on as we are at a critical Nexus.  So there will have to be some level of overhaul.

And the reforms and counter reforms won't stop until we have returned to a balance. Hopefully the journey will not be too rough 

 

To my mind, the West is wealthier than ever before. What both camps seem to want is sharing of the benefits of our productivity gains. 

I would say Trump 's plans are not practical in this regard. So he will not succeed.

 

[myata]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Hopefully the journey will not be too rough 

With Russia, North Korea, Iran and China around the corner, waiting patiently for us to figure out our worries? That's one big, serious hope unless I'm missing something in the picture.

Edited June 29, 2024 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, myata said:

With Russia, North Korea, Iran and China around the corner, waiting patiently for us to figure out our worries? That's one big, serious hope unless I'm missing something in the picture.

PsyOps to induce domestic strife is the best or perhaps only option for them.

There's no military or economic strategy for them against us.

To add: I mean in terms of a decisive advantage.

Edited June 29, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[myata]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

There's no military or economic strategy for them against us.

Isn't that what Rome convinced itself of? It's just impossible?

[Nationalist]

What myata and Mike are missing is that both political parties produced the MAGA movement and Trump. They're own actions have lead to this. Clinton's sexcapades...Bush's lies...Obama's weakness and lies. Culminating in Hilary-Billary's infamous "basket of deplorables" insult. The very essence of elite disdain for the voting public.

Democrats and Republicans alike, have gone to extraordinary lengths to squash the MAGA movement and it's leader. But...we just keep coming...our cause just keeps growing. It took power in 2016 and it's going to retake power in November. 

The Republicans are in the midst of a purge of uni-party sympathizers. The Democrats are starting to reject their woke fascist sympathizers.

MAGA is the public's response to a government that has little to no regard for them.

Enjoy the election.

Edited June 29, 2024 by Nationalist

[Michael Hardner]

33 minutes ago, myata said:

Isn't that what Rome convinced itself of? It's just impossible?

Yes but America isn't Rome.

 

34 minutes ago, myata said:

Isn't that what Rome convinced itself of? It's just impossible?

And others have declined without being invaded.

[Michael Hardner]

51 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. What myata and Mike are missing is that both political parties produced the MAGA movement and Trump.

2. They're own actions have lead to this. Clinton's sexcapades...Bush's lies...Obama's weakness and lies. Culminating in Hilary-Billary's infamous "basket of deplorables" insult. The very essence of elite disdain for the voting public.

3. Democrats and Republicans alike, have gone to extraordinary lengths to squash the MAGA movement and it's leader. But...we just keep coming...our cause just keeps growing. It took power in 2016 and it's going to retake power in November. 

4. Enjoy the election.

1.  I don't know you can say I missed this.  In fact, you can infer it from my assessment of the spoils of democracy's success.
2. Sure, as long as you allow for the fact that Trump is at the centre of the circle of elites in America: an ostensible billionaire from New York, with his own sexual foibles, who hobnobs with celebrity and power - the Clintons went to his wedding for example - and whose behaviour builds on the excesses you cite.  it doesn't take anything away from Trump's own successes or political acumen to say this.
3. Power to what end ?  What is going to come of it and how ?  The narrative that government bureaucrats and/or immigrants or other countries are robbing the American worker of prosperity doesn't quite fly, given that almost the entirety of productivity gains have gone to the so-called elite over the past 50 years.
4. I don't think I will.  Aside from the UNconservative aspects of Trump's ideology, and the cult-like aspects as well as the closed-mindedness to obscene statements and behaviour... I am very concerned that his team will under estimate the risks of making huge changes with unanticipated results.  

Edit: To add - I was open-minded as to the possibilities of Trump's button-mashing actually helping the people last time around, so my concerns in #4 are NOT political but pragmatic.  And the risks I talk about are for Americans, Canadians and the world.  If anyone asserts that large radical change is not at risk at this point, they are mistaken and it has nothing to do with politics.

Edited June 29, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[myata]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes but America isn't Rome.

Just words cannot say it though. Rome thought it was infallible and said so, many times. Only the reality can: the test of it, and the time.