Aristides Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: What? You blather on about "equal rights" then deny men any rights what so ever to the baby THEY produced? A piece of advice... Find a mate who makes rational decisions for you. Men can’t get pregnant. Obviously you think the only rights that matter belong to men. The abortion bans aren’t about rights, they are about control. Edited May 26 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatomontes99 Posted May 26 Author Report Share Posted May 26 16 minutes ago, Aristides said: Men can’t get pregnant. Obviously you think the only rights that matter belong to men. The abortion bans aren’t about rights, they are about control. Why do yall only care about the mother's rights? Why isn't the child ever a factor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 (edited) 6 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said: Why do yall only care about the mother's rights? Why isn't the child ever a factor? I don’t have to approve of a woman’s decision, but I’m also not going to impose my beliefs on them when it comes to their bodies. Pro choice doesn’t mean pro abortion. Edited May 26 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatomontes99 Posted May 26 Author Report Share Posted May 26 12 minutes ago, Aristides said: I don’t have to approve of a woman’s decision, but I’m also not going to impose my beliefs on them when it comes to their bodies. Pro choice doesn’t mean pro abortion. Yes it does. Why doesn't the child's life ever factor I to the left's diatribe? Why are unborn children so worthless that they can be discarded like a paper cub from McDonald's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said: Yes it does. Why doesn't the child's life ever factor I to the left's diatribe? Why are unborn children so worthless that they can be discarded like a paper cub from McDonald's? No it doesn't. Pro choice is respecting someone's right to choose. You don't have to agree with that choice. Men have no business assuming what a woman goes through when faced with that choice. There is no way we can understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 2 hours ago, Aristides said: The abortion bans aren’t about rights, they are about control. When you can't argue facts honestly, you have to resort to strawman arguments attacking motives instead. 17 minutes ago, Aristides said: Men have no business assuming what a woman goes through when faced with that choice. There is no way we can understand. I don't presume to know anything about what anyone goes through before killing someone else for the mere convenience of it... I don't need to in order to say that killing people for the mere convenience of it is wrong. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 14 minutes ago, User said: When you can't argue facts honestly, you have to resort to strawman arguments attacking motives instead. I don't presume to know anything about what anyone goes through before killing someone else for the mere convenience of it... I don't need to in order to say that killing people for the mere convenience of it is wrong. You are the one being dishonest. You can't get pregnant with what it does to a woman's body or have to take responsibility for a child you never wanted or didn't expect. But you do want to control those who do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatomontes99 Posted May 27 Author Report Share Posted May 27 32 minutes ago, Aristides said: No it doesn't. Pro choice is respecting someone's right to choose. You don't have to agree with that choice. Men have no business assuming what a woman goes through when faced with that choice. There is no way we can understand. So, in your opinion, men shouldn't have a say in the rights of children? Why? Are men second class citizens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 9 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said: So, in your opinion, men shouldn't have a say in the rights of children? Why? Are men second class citizens? A foetus that can't exist outside a woman's body is not yet a child. In the case of a couple, hopefully it would be a shared decision but ultimately the choice lies with the woman. You don't want equality, you want dominion over someone for something you aren't capable of doing yourself or having to be responsible for the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 8 hours ago, Aristides said: Sure, why should all the women in the country have equal rights and control over their own bodies? They are just women. They would have equal rights. Abortion is not a 'right', any more than a colonoscopy is a right, or any other medical proceedure is a right. The issue becomes when does a child have rights. And who should decide that. The feds said the individual states should have that discussion, abortion (and colonoscopies presumably) are not protected by the constitution. As you are well aware there is a process for constitutional amendments and additions. there have been many. So if the people believe abortion is a right and should be then just amend the constitution. But currently it doeesn't support that idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 9 minutes ago, Aristides said: A foetus that can't exist outside a woman's body is not yet a child. In the case of a couple, hopefully it would be a shared decision but ultimately the choice lies with the woman. You don't want equality, you want dominion over someone for something you aren't capable of doing yourself or having to be responsible for the consequences. LOL - well there's a few problems with that 1 - you would have to prove conclusively that a fetus is not a child until birth and that is not possible. Unfortunately it's a matter of opinion. MOST people however agree it's not at the moment of birth as you suggest but somewhere before that. THe end of the first trimester seems popular for a number of reasons. The moment a child becomes a human being it has the right not to be killed. The woman's rights come a distant second to that. So the debate over when that happens is important and a one sized fits all federal solution may not be appropriate, 2- you are arguing that it's 100 percent the woman's decision - yet the male will be financially responsible if she chooses to keep it. NO matter HOW you slice it - there is inequity there. That is not reasonable or fair. We allow it because we claim that the male's rights must be trampled in order to benefit the child. Well - if we accept that then the woman's rights can get trampled as well For the benefit of the child after all 3 if it's ok for you to impose a date when the child becomes a human as being birth, it's just as ok for someone else to say it's conception and no abortion should be legal. So be careful where you vest that power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatomontes99 Posted May 27 Author Report Share Posted May 27 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Aristides said: A foetus that can't exist outside a woman's body is not yet a child. In the case of a couple, hopefully it would be a shared decision but ultimately the choice lies with the woman. You don't want equality, you want dominion over someone for something you aren't capable of doing yourself or having to be responsible for the consequences. Well, as a man, I disagree with this logic that because a fetus isn't viable that it doesn't have rights. My belief is that the right to love extends to all humans regardless of their stage of developing or capabilities. Do you not agree? Is my opinion invalid because I'm a man? Edited May 27 by gatomontes99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 8 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said: Well, as a man, I disagree with this logic that because a fetus isn't viable that it doesn't have rights. My belief is that the right to love extends to all humans regardless of their stage of developing or capabilities. Do you not agree? Is my opinion invalid because I'm a man? Get back to me when you can get pregnant, carry a foetus full term with all hat it does to a body and then take the responsibility for that child all on your own. Until then, your opinion is nothing more than a man’s opinion on something he will never have to experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 46 minutes ago, Aristides said: Get back to me when you can get pregnant, carry a foetus full term with all hat it does to a body and then take the responsibility for that child all on your own. Until then, your opinion is nothing more than a man’s opinion on something he will never have to experience. Get back to me when she can do all of that without sperm. You are literally arguing that a man has no emotional stake in his child, no physical stake in his child and should have no say in his child. Yet I'm certain you will argue that he should have fiscal responsibility Imagine if you were the kind of person who legitimately thought that abortion was murder. Then find out that a woman did that against your will without consultation to your child and you had no rights. How would that feel? You would legitimately believe your child had been murdered by someone else and there's nothing you could do. But I guess in your books men are scum and don't care for their children anyway so what the heck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 2 hours ago, Aristides said: You are the one being dishonest. You can't get pregnant with what it does to a woman's body or have to take responsibility for a child you never wanted or didn't expect. But you do want to control those who do. Control... how? I no more want to "control" them than I do anyone else in saying it is wrong to kill someone for the mere convenience of it. Again, you can't argue honestly or in good faith, so you must resort to these petty attempts to attack the motives falsely. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 8 minutes ago, User said: Control... how? I no more want to "control" them than I do anyone else in saying it is wrong to kill someone for the mere convenience of it. Again, you can't argue honestly or in good faith, so you must resort to these petty attempts to attack the motives falsely. You want to impose your control over women concerning something that you can never experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, Aristides said: You want to impose your control over women concerning something that you can never experience. I no more want to "control" women than I do anyone else when it comes to killing a human life. I don't have to be a woman any more than I have to be homeless to say it is wrong to stab a homeless person to death. You refuse to engage honestly here on what the issue is, and continue to try to attack the motives falsely. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 5 minutes ago, User said: I no more want to "control" women than I do anyone else when it comes to killing a human life. I don't have to be a woman any more than I have to be homeless to say it is wrong to stab a homeless person to death. You refuse to engage honestly here on what the issue is, and continue to try to attack the motives falsely. Sure you do. You have decided to impose your opinions on someone else and justify it by claiming to be noble, even though you will never have to experience it yourself. What a hero you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 Just now, Aristides said: Sure you do. You have decided to impose your opinions on someone else and justify it by claiming to be noble, even though you will never have to experience it yourself. What a hero you are. I am no more imposing my "opinion" on someone else here than I am in saying it is wrong to kill anyone for the mere convenience of it. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatomontes99 Posted May 27 Author Report Share Posted May 27 8 hours ago, Aristides said: Get back to me when you can get pregnant, carry a foetus full term with all hat it does to a body and then take the responsibility for that child all on your own. Until then, your opinion is nothing more than a man’s opinion on something he will never have to experience. So men are inferior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 (edited) 12 hours ago, Aristides said: Sure you do. You have decided to impose your opinions on someone else and justify it by claiming to be noble, even though you will never have to experience it yourself. What a hero you are. that is a childish argument that has absolutely no merit. I've never been raped but I know that it's wrong. I've never murdered anyone but I know that murder is wrong. I will never be a slave but i know slavery is wrong, The idea that somehow you only get a say or can only tell if something is right or wrong if that has happened to you is insane. It's a cheap and cheezy argument based on feelings rather than logic or reason and it's used by those who can't make an intelligent argument to hide that fact behind moral outrage. Of course a man can say whether or not it's wrong to kill a baby. And having a uterus has absolutely nothing to do with determining when it goes from being a fetus to a person. This is just your way of saying "I can't make a sensible argument therefore I'll go with Muh Feels" Edited May 27 by CdnFox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 On 5/27/2024 at 4:03 AM, gatomontes99 said: So men are inferior? Obviously you think women are. You guys go on about a child needing two parents and I would agree, yet you seem intent on increasing the number of single moms and the poverty that can go with it. Yet you claim to care about kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatomontes99 Posted May 30 Author Report Share Posted May 30 11 minutes ago, Aristides said: Obviously you think women are. You guys go on about a child needing two parents and I would agree, yet you seem intent on increasing the number of single moms and the poverty that can go with it. Yet you claim to care about kids. You implied that men are inferior and rather than addressing that, you tried attacking me. At least be man enough to back your claim or explain what you really mean. However, you made a bogus claim that has to be addressed. Conservatives did not create more single moms. Welfare did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 57 minutes ago, Aristides said: You guys go on about a child needing two parents and I would agree, yet you seem intent on increasing the number of single moms and the poverty that can go with it. Yet you claim to care about kids. So, now you support killing 5-year-old kids if they only have a single mom and no father in the household? Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, User said: So, now you support killing 5-year-old kids if they only have a single mom and no father in the household? Don’t be an ass and don’t complain when they grow into gang bangers because their poor single mom couldn’t raise them to your standard. Edited May 30 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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