EXCLUSIVE: ICC seeks arrest warrants against Sinwar and Netanyahu for war crimes over October 7 attack and Gaza war

[ironstone]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

I thin levelling an entire apartment complex full of people because a team of people are launching shitty homemade rockets or mortars is a direct contravention of the principle of proportionality.

Could you also explain which wars employed the principle of proportionality and exactly what it is? Is it one for one in your world?

[myata]

4 hours ago, ironstone said:

Sinwar immediately after the latest Hamas attack,

That is a great observation. What was the problem? How is it even connected to the subsequent actions of Israel? Isn't it supposed to be about pure justice and nothing selective?

Looks like they just made more mess in an extremely messy issue. Looks like our feeble attempts at international justice havent' been working very well so far. The question is, why? What is behind those pretty words, is there a genuine understanding and commitment to shared vision and principles?

[User]

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

That's not how it works you jackoff.

That is exactly how it works. Calling me names doesn't make your ignorance here any better. 

You are here arguing that Hamas gets to rape, torture, kill women and children and then run back to their safe zone and hide behind civilian targets thumbing their noses saying "you can't get me!"

This is not some childish playground game. Your argument fails on any basic level of common sense, nevermind international laws from the Geneva Convention to other forms of international laws like those the ICC adopted clearly state this as well. 

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Oh you found an example from a decade ago, that must mean every single Israeli strike is against a legit target. lol.

I said I could spam the thread if you like. You pretended to be ignorant of these things, one example is all it takes to show you how ignorant you are. You could try to get a shred of intellectual integrity here.

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

The IDF also published images showing a command bunker under a hospital that were fake as hell. Again, they have as much credibility as Hamas.

As much credibility as Hamas? Hamas lies 10,000 times and you find one Israeli mistake and declare them equal to Hamas. Your arguments are absurd nonsense. 

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

You also don;t get to blow up a hospital and then pretend it was a military target.

No one is pretending anything, in this scenario the enemy is fighting from a Hospital. That makes it a legitimate military target. 

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

You're probably one of these a-holes who thinks it's ok to level an entire building full of civilians if there's one Hamas meber inside.

No, I am someone smart enough to understand how smart bombs differ from dumb bombs in their employment. 

 

[Black Dog]

20 hours ago, ironstone said:

Please enlighten us and describe in precise terms how the IDF is supposed to take out those rockets and mortars if Hamas doesn't let their own people leave.

Or are you suggesting that the IDF should not do anything and just let Hamas fire away to their hearts content?

Sure none of that stuff does anything. More Israelis were killed by the IDF on Oct. 7 alone than have ever been killed by a Hamas rocket.

[Black Dog]

17 hours ago, User said:

That is exactly how it works. Calling me names doesn't make your ignorance here any better. 

You are here arguing that Hamas gets to rape, torture, kill women and children and then run back to their safe zone and hide behind civilian targets thumbing their noses saying "you can't get me!"

This is not some childish playground game. Your argument fails on any basic level of common sense, nevermind international laws from the Geneva Convention to other forms of international laws like those the ICC adopted clearly state this as well.

I love how you keep citing international law without having any idea what it says. It does not say, as you seem to believe, that if someone attacks you, you have the unlimited right to slaughter anyone anywhere who might be in the vicinity of a possible military target of dubious value.

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I said I could spam the thread if you like. You pretended to be ignorant of these things, one example is all it takes to show you how ignorant you are. You could try to get a shred of intellectual integrity here.

You have one example from a decade ago vetted by a third party and I expect the rest of your examples will be IDF propaganda.

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As much credibility as Hamas? Hamas lies 10,000 times and you find one Israeli mistake and declare them equal to Hamas. Your arguments are absurd nonsense. 

lol. I could spam the thread if you like.

 

[ironstone]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Sure none of that stuff does anything. More Israelis were killed by the IDF on Oct. 7 alone than have ever been killed by a Hamas rocket.

It seems there was a huge lapse in intelligence by Israel up to Oct 7, but are you putting all the blame for that massacre(live streamed!) on Israel?

[User]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

I love how you keep citing international law without having any idea what it says. It does not say, as you seem to believe, that if someone attacks you, you have the unlimited right to slaughter anyone anywhere who might be in the vicinity of a possible military target of dubious value.

I did not say that it said that. You are making a strawman argument now. You know you can't win this discussion based on the facts, so you play these dumb games instead. 

Hamas depends on dishonest arguments like yours. Good job supporting them in their rape, torture, murder, and hostage-taking. 

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

You have one example from a decade ago vetted by a third party and I expect the rest of your examples will be IDF propaganda.

Again, you tried to act like it never happened at all. I only need one example to show you how ignorant you are. 

 

[Black Dog]

56 minutes ago, ironstone said:

It seems there was a huge lapse in intelligence by Israel up to Oct 7, but are you putting all the blame for that massacre(live streamed!) on Israel?

No. I'm saying that in the course of the Hamas attack a significant number of Israelis were killed by friendly fire.

56 minutes ago, User said:

I did not say that it said that. You are making a strawman argument now. You know you can't win this discussion based on the facts, so you play these dumb games instead. 

Hamas depends on dishonest arguments like yours. Good job supporting them in their rape, torture, murder, and hostage-taking. 

Israel depends on gullible dupes like you to support their campaign of indiscriminate murder and ethnic cleansing.

[User]

7 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Israel depends on gullible dupes like you to support their campaign of indiscriminate murder and ethnic cleansing.

The facts on their face do not back you up at all. 

If Israel were simply indiscriminately killing people, there would be a whole lot more than 30K dead... 

I am not gullible, but you certainly are not being honest here. 

 

[Black Dog]

3 hours ago, User said:

The facts on their face do not back you up at all. 

If Israel were simply indiscriminately killing people, there would be a whole lot more than 30K dead... 

I am not gullible, but you certainly are not being honest here. 

It's not for a lack of trying. Israel has destroyed 70% of all housing stock in Gaza. 

[User]

5 hours ago, Black Dog said:

It's not for a lack of trying. Israel has destroyed 70% of all housing stock in Gaza. 

Still can't be honest here... or is it ignorance? Let me know which. I can help you with the ignorance, not so much with the integrity. 

[ironstone]

17 hours ago, Black Dog said:

No. I'm saying that in the course of the Hamas attack a significant number of Israelis were killed by friendly fire.

Friendly fire is something that unfortunately happens in most wars. But friendly fire is very different from one side using their own people as human shields.

It's been pointed out that during WW2 the Einsatzgruppen often numbed themselves with alcohol before executing civilians, Hamas of today LIVESTREAMED what they did on Oct 7. They were proud of what they were doing, and they wanted the world to see it.

What does that tell you about Hamas?

[Black Dog]

On 5/24/2024 at 8:58 AM, ironstone said:

Friendly fire is something that unfortunately happens in most wars. But friendly fire is very different from one side using their own people as human shields.

It's been pointed out that during WW2 the Einsatzgruppen often numbed themselves with alcohol before executing civilians, Hamas of today LIVESTREAMED what they did on Oct 7. They were proud of what they were doing, and they wanted the world to see it.

What does that tell you about Hamas?

LOL I've read this braindead "Hamas are worse than the Nazis because the Nazis felt bad about what they were doing" take before and it betrays a staggering ignorance of the realities of the Holocaust and the enthusiasm of its perpetrators. 

On 5/24/2024 at 12:34 AM, User said:

Still can't be honest here... or is it ignorance? Let me know which. I can help you with the ignorance, not so much with the integrity. 

Have they or have they not destroyed 70% of the housing stock in Gaza.

[User]

10 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Have they or have they not destroyed 70% of the housing stock in Gaza.

Have not. I already asked before if you were lying or if you needed me to educate you here. Which is it?

[Black Dog]

8 minutes ago, User said:

Have not. I already asked before if you were lying or if you needed me to educate you here. Which is it?

You're wrong or lying, which is it. 

[User]

7 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

You're wrong or lying, which is it. 

No, I am smart enough to read the details that the number you are using is not destroyed, but destroyed or "damaged" with no real meaning behind what "damaged" could mean, anything from some rubble on the roof or whatnot... 

The number of buildings and structures actually "destroyed" is much less than that. 

 

[Black Dog]

2 hours ago, User said:

No, I am smart enough to read the details that the number you are using is not destroyed, but destroyed or "damaged" with no real meaning behind what "damaged" could mean, anything from some rubble on the roof or whatnot... 

The number of buildings and structures actually "destroyed" is much less than that. 

There's really no end to your excuses for Israel are there?  You must have been over the moon happy with what happened in Rafah this weekend, huh.

[User]

5 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

There's really no end to your excuses for Israel are there?  You must have been over the moon happy with what happened in Rafah this weekend, huh.

I am not excusing anything. I am simply pointing out a fact. One that you were either ignorant of or being deceptive about. 

What is it you think happened in Rafah this weekend?

I am thrilled that Israel is killing Hamas leadership and moving to win this war so we can get back to some form of normalcy. 

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, User said:

I am not excusing anything. I am simply pointing out a fact. One that you were either ignorant of or being deceptive about. 

What is it you think happened in Rafah this weekend?

Israel murdered dozens of civilians to get at a couple of Hamas members, something even that pig Netenyahu is saying a mistake, but I'm sure you're positively tumescent over the images of dead babies.

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I am thrilled that Israel is killing Hamas leadership and moving to win this war so we can get back to some form of normalcy. 

If you think Israel is winning this war you're an even bigger dupe than I could have imagined.

[User]

6 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Israel murdered dozens of civilians to get at a couple of Hamas members, something even that pig Netenyahu is saying a mistake, but I'm sure you're positively tumescent over the images of dead babies.

It is not murder when innocent people are mistakenly killed or tragically killed as part of a military action when the enemy being targeted is hiding and operating among civilians. 

Where did he say it was a mistake?

What I have seen is the IDF showing they targeted these leaders with a precise munition, with a small explosive package, that was nowhere near any innocent civilians, and the area Hamas is claiming was hit was not where the IDF hit at all. The IDF reported it might have been a secondary explosion, perhaps some Hamas weapons cache. 

You are the one who supports the type of warfare Hamas is using that results in dead babies. 

9 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

If you think Israel is winning this war you're an even bigger dupe than I could have imagined.

Of course, they are winning. Its why folks like you are screaming so loud now at the end as Hamas is almost completely wiped out. 

So... I noticed you have moved on from your 70% homes "destroyed" claim. Did you figure out you were wrong but are too prideful to admit it now or did you figure out that I know you are lying and are too dishonest to own up to it?

[ironstone]

14 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

If you think Israel is winning this war you're an even bigger dupe than I could have imagined.

The IDF is temporarily winning on the ground as they root out the cowardly Hamas rats from behind civilians, within schools and hospitals and such. Hamas always wins the war of public opinion(too many weak minds out there perhaps?).

From the river to the sea...? Most of you guys don't know which river or sea.

Then there may be a lull in terrorist actions by Hamas, then eventually it starts up again. Western countries will pour billions into Gaza, much of which gets siphoned off by the ultra-rich Hamas leaders. How do you suppose the late Yasser Arafat became so fantastically wealthy?

This is what the civilized world is up against.

More and more and more of them are coming to live among us every day.

[Black Dog]

2 minutes ago, ironstone said:

The IDF is temporarily winning on the ground as they root out the cowardly Hamas rats from behind civilians, within schools and hospitals and such. Hamas always wins the war of public opinion(too many weak minds out there perhaps?).=

If the war aim is to eliminate Hamas, then Israel has already lost. This war has been a recruiting bonanza for Hamas which is rapidly replenishing its ranks and reoccupying areas Israel claims to have cleaned them out of. 

[Black Dog]

27 minutes ago, User said:

It is not murder when innocent people are mistakenly killed or tragically killed as part of a military action when the enemy being targeted is hiding and operating among civilians. 
 

Do you think it was a mistake or not?

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Where did he say it was a mistake?

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In a speech to Israel’s parliament on Monday, Netanyahu said that Israel would investigate Sunday’s “incident” and “obtain a conclusion.”

“Despite our utmost efforts not to harm innocent civilians, last night, there was a tragic mistake,” Netanyahu said. “We are investigating the incident and will obtain a conclusion because this is our policy.”

 

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What I have seen is the IDF showing they targeted these leaders with a precise munition, with a small explosive package, that was nowhere near any innocent civilians, and the area Hamas is claiming was hit was not where the IDF hit at all. The IDF reported it might have been a secondary explosion, perhaps some Hamas weapons cache. 

Kinda hard to square this frankly incoherent explanation with the admission by Bibi.

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Of course, they are winning. Its why folks like you are screaming so loud now at the end as Hamas is almost completely wiped out. 

You're completely divorced from reality, but I guess that's what you get when your only source of info is IDF press releases.

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So... I noticed you have moved on from your 70% homes "destroyed" claim. Did you figure out you were wrong but are too prideful to admit it now or did you figure out that I know you are lying and are too dishonest to own up to it?

I haven't moved on, I recognize there's no point arguing with a deranged person who thinks "damaged" means "it has some rubble on the roof".

[ironstone]

3 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

If the war aim is to eliminate Hamas, then Israel has already lost. This war has been a recruiting bonanza for Hamas which is rapidly replenishing its ranks and reoccupying areas Israel claims to have cleaned them out of. 

I concede it's kind of like whack-a-mole. Unfortunately for Israel, it's virtually impossible to destroy Hamas because from the cradle to the grave in Gaza, everything revolves around promoting intense hatred for all Jews whether in Israel or not.

[ironstone]

This is how Hamas always inflates the number of 'civilian' casualties.