What's With Democrats And Funerals?

[Shady]

I would think that as the current American President, it would have been absolutely mandatory for Bush to address the NAACP

You mean this NAACP?

NAACP chairman compares GOP to Nazis

Bond delivers blistering partisan speech in North Carolina

Link

No. Absolutely not. The NAACP are an extremely partisan organization. Do not compare them to a funeral service. By no means is a President required to attend functions of people who compare you to Nazi's. Maybe during Hoover's time in office, they existed as a non-partisan group, but that train has long since passed. Nice try though. Not only did President Bush take a pass, but so do Democrats.

NAACP warns Democratic no-shows not to expect black vote

MIAMI BEACH, Fla. -- Three of the Democrats' nine presidential contenders drew the wrath of the president of the NAACP for skipping the group's candidate forum Monday

Link

[Guest American Woman]

I would think that as the current American President, it would have been absolutely mandatory for Bush to address the NAACP

You mean this NAACP?

NAACP chairman compares GOP to Nazis

Bond delivers blistering partisan speech in North Carolina

Link

No. Absolutely not. The NAACP are an extremely partisan organization. Do not compare them to a funeral service. By no means is a President required to attend functions of people who compare you to Nazi's. Maybe during Hoover's time in office, they existed as a non-partisan group, but that train has long since passed. Nice try though. Not only did President Bush take a pass, but so do Democrats.

NAACP warns Democratic no-shows not to expect black vote

MIAMI BEACH, Fla. -- Three of the Democrats' nine presidential contenders drew the wrath of the president of the NAACP for skipping the group's candidate forum Monday

Link

First of all, I trust you'll be able to understand my response even if I don't use huge, bold letters.

Yep. That's the NAACP that I'm referring to. The largest civil rights group in the United States. The same NAACP that Bush did address in his 2000 presidential campaign saying, "I am here today because I believe there is much we can do together to advance racial harmony and economic opportunity." (Speech to NAACP, part of “Renewing America’s Purpose” Jul 10, 2000). The same NAACP that he then never addressed again during his full term in office.

But evidently Bush knew during his first term that Bond was going to compare the Republicans to Nazis in 2006, and that's why he refused to meet with them prior to that.

Bush is the POTUS, so I would hope that sticks and stones don't break his bones. There are plenty of fundamentalist Christians who've said some pretty bizarre things, but Bush hasn't avoided meeting with fundamentalist Christians because of it. It's his duty as president to address all citizens, not just those who never criticize him or never say things he doesn't like.

And fyi, the NAACP is a non-partisan group. You said that Democrats have also taken a pass at addressing the NAACP, leaving out the second half of my quote, so I'd like to know which Democratic presidents have not addressed the NAACP. Because that's what I was referring to. Presidents who have gone an entire term without ever addressing the NAACP.

Perhaps, as you say, it was mandatory that Bush attend King's funeral. Perhaps he was there out of a sense of duty and obligation. But the Democrats who are being criticized were there because they supported King's work and share her life's dreams. Which is more admirable? Which is more in line with honoring King's life?

[Guest American Woman]

To American Woman...

Tsk, tsk, tsk Zues you bad boy! Okay? Feel betta? Kiss, kiss, wink, wink!

AM... I read all that you wrote and to be honest... I agree with a lot of it... there are details here and there... for example... Bush had an agenda... what politician doesn't? You belive he went there to gain... I believe he went there as a stop gap... I don't believe Bush can gain with blacks in America... I don't care what he'd do. The difference is subtle.

Most of all this will forever be... as you've stated... one's opinion. Therefore we could go on forever with you say I say... who really gives a... well... you know.

Additionally only a very foolish man would continue to converse with a woman over something that is more a matter of how one defines taste... because as I'm sure you'll agree... women out talk men by at least 4 - 1 ratio! And having been married and divorced about five different times, my experience tells me that... few seem to know when to shut up either.

And I'm never angry American Women... the written word does not reflect tone and inflection of voice nor does it pass on to others the facial expressions that indicate mood. So relax sweetheart... if you think it was classy... who am I to argue with you?

So... I'll agree... it was classy... or about as classy as one can expect from members of a loser political party like the Democrat Party of the U.S.

I feel much better, thank you.

But for clarification purposes, I never once said the Democrats' behavior was classy. There's a lot of ground between classy and classless, and I'd say most things fall into that inbetween area.

Perhaps the problem isn't that women talk too much, but that you don't listen closely enough.

[Zues]

[quote name='American Woman' date='Feb 12 2006, 09:17 AM' post='97223

I feel much better, thank you.

But for clarification purposes, I never once said the Democrats' behavior was classy. There's a lot of ground between classy and classless, and I'd say most things fall into that inbetween area.

Perhaps the problem isn't that women talk too much, but that you don't listen closely enough.

[Guest American Woman]

... Zues is right. What politician doesn't have an agenda? All politicians do. Especially the Dem politicians who attended the funeral. You know how we know? Because they voiced their agenda during the service. Yes, her and President Bush disagreed on certain issues. However, they also agreed on certain issues as well. They HAVE shared a stage in the past, both respectful of eachother, which is more then I can say for certain individuals that attended her service. A total lack of class.

What issues did Coretta King and Bush agree on?

[Montgomery Burns]

Can somebody please explain to me their boorish behavior? Because I don't get it. I absolutely don't understand how some people can think it's perfactly appropriate to transform someone's funeral/memorial into a political convention.

"Ah do declah, these heah Dehm-o-crats are such beastly creetchas. It's just so unseemly the way these culluhed folk behave at their funerahls, all dancin' and talkin' poltics, insteada demurely sippin' mint juleps on the verhandah."

Who are you mocking? Condi "Aunt Jemima" Rice? Colin "Uncle Tom" Powell? Michael "let's throw Oreo cookies at him" Steele?

[Montgomery Burns]

Black Dog:

Hmm. Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King spent their lives fighting poverty, racial injustice and war. They lived and breathed politics, and in the former's case, died because of them. So for mincing little pricks like you to declare that the event celebrating the life's work of one of these political activists should be free of politics (not to mention the titanic arrogance of presuming that you know civility from a hole in the ground) is ridiculous. The fact that it comes from a political party known for tarring its opponnents with every imaginable smear renders their sudden outrage an air of comic stupidity.

You don't want to got there. Trust me! You do not want to go there.

No one hates like the left. From DNC leader Howard "I hate the Republicans and everything they satnd for" Dean, to other leftist hatemongers like Michael "Iraq was an utopia" Moore, Ted "Condi is an Aunt Jemima" Rall, Ted "splash" Kennedy, Robert "white n*ggers" Byrd (D-KKK)--who the Donks often refer to as the "conscience of the Senate--said live on the air in 2001 on the Evil Faux News Channel.

Harry Reid--hatemonger. Al Franken and Randi Rhoades of hatemonger radio (Air America) doing "skits" about assassinating the President.

No one is as intolerant and hates like the left. No one!

Cripes. Bob Fertik--a Democratic consultant--openly mused about KKKarl Rove committing a terrorist act during the Superbowl--so he (and the puppet he controls--GW Bush) could have a justification for invading Iran.

The tasteless classless American left is completely out of touch with the public.

See you in the 2006 midterm elections.

And if you want a contest to see who is the greater hater....I'm ready, willing, and more than able to take you on.

Don't sing it. Bring it.

[scribblet]

Black Dog:

Hmm. Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King spent their lives fighting poverty, racial injustice

No one is as intolerant and hates like the left. No one!

Cripes. Bob Fertik--a Democratic consultant--openly mused about KKKarl Rove committing a terrorist act during the Superbowl--so he (and the puppet he controls--GW Bush) could have a justification for invading Iran.

The tasteless classless American left is completely out of touch with the public.

See you in the 2006 midterm elections.

And if you want a contest to see who is the greater hater....I'm ready, willing, and more than able to take you on.

Don't sing it. Bring it.

I was floored when I heard them turning a funeral into a political forum, Carter's gone right off the beam lately.

[Shady]

Hey Monty, you want hate, here it is, plenty of it! All from Black Dog's ilk.

Paper Shutters Blog After Ombudsman Post

The Washington Post shut down one of its blogs Thursday after the newspaper's ombudsman raised the ire of readers by writing that lobbyist Jack Abramoff gave money to the Democrats as well as to Republicans.

There were so many personal attacks that the newspaper's staff could not "keep the board clean, there was some pretty filthy stuff," and so the Post shut down comments on the blog, or Web log, said Jim Brady, executive editor of washingtonpost.com.

"We're not giving up on the concept of having a healthy public dialogue with our readers, but this experience shows that we need to think more carefully about how we do it," Brady wrote on the newspaper's Web site. "There are things that we said we would not allow, including personal attacks, the use of profanity and hate speech."

Link

The Firestorm Over My Column

Nothing in my 50-year career prepared me for the thousands of flaming e-mails I got last week over my last column, e-mails so abusive and many so obscene that part of The Post's Web site was shut down.

These facts have been reported many times in The Post and elsewhere. So why would it cause me to be called a "right-wing whore" and much worse?

Witness three printable examples:

"Yes, the WAPO needs an enema, and Howell should be the first thing that gets medicinally removed."

"You Deborah Howell, stop lying about Democrats getting money from Abramoff. Democrats do not control anything in Washington, so why would he waste money bribing them. Think and do your research, and stop being an idiot."

"This rag must be something that I pulled off a barscreen at a sewage treatment plant. Howell is simply a paid liar. How this creature endures itself is something I don't understand. What a piece of flotsam."

Link

Ahh, the compassion of the left!

[shoop]

Shady,

Call it boorish if you want, but take an actual look at the behaviour in question.

Tone of Wellstone memorial generates anger

MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota (CNN) -- The partisan tone of the memorial service for the late Sen. Paul Wellstone stirred anger Wednesday in some Republicans, political consultants and radio talk show hosts who say some of the comments and behavior were inappropriate.

Then the article goes on to talk about a few *boos* in the crowd for Trent Lott and Jesse Ventura.

There was nothing more to it than that. The Republicans created a tempest in a teapot over this one.

The boorish behaviour was more fairly the way in which the Republicans used the death of Wellstone to create another controversy.

[BHS]

It's to be expected that Jimmy Carter would use the opportunity a eulogy presents to make ill-conceived swipes at the President. (Did he really mean to compare the Kings to terrorists?)

What terrorists?

Um, the terrorist cells presumably being targeted by the controversial NSA program. Unless you really believe that Bush is jerking off to the secretly taped phone conversations of soccer moms.

I think the line is crossed when the mourners turn en masse to cheering and jeering.

What line is thta? More to the point: what fucking business is it of anyone if soemone's funeral is turned into a political rally, especially if that person was, ah, political? Where do the Republicans get off dictating what's proper? Who appointed the conservative punditocracy Miss Manners?

Whoa, calm down, feisty. Even everyone's favourite anti-Bush cheerleader Jon Stewart made a point of mocking the fact that the anti-Bush jabs were getting standing ovations. At a funeral. I'm sure there are plently of other non-conservative types who felt that turning a dignified memorial service into a typical Washington Mall rally was a little bit weird.

[BHS]

If anyone used the funeral to their own personal advantage, it was Bush, so I think it's hilarious that he finally had to meet people face-to-face that he had been avoiding throughout his presidency and I'm betting the Kings would agree.

A funeral is to elegize a person's life and Coretta King's life was about civil rights. She was, as you said, political. So it seems to me that it's fitting that her funeral would raise the issues that she concerned herself with throughout her life. I don't see the Kings as bowing down to someone else's definintion of "proper." In fact, I have to laugh at the idea.

Seems to me the Bush supporters are whining because for once Bush was among people who aren't his supporters. But this funeral wasn't about Bush or respecting Bush. It was about Coretta King and respecting what she and her family have worked for.

I wasn't sure what to make of things at first either, but the more I think about it, the more I like it and the more I'm sure Coretta would have liked it too.

Let me ask you this: what would you be writing here, if Bush hadn't gone to the funeral? I'm pretty sure I already know.

Also, Coretta Scott King was alive and well for the first four years of Bush's presidency. Presumably, if she'd said anytihing unpleasant about Bush during that time you'd be quoting it. The fact that you and likeminded people are using the occurance of her death, when she can no longer issue a correction, to presume to put your own words into her and her husbands' mouths speaks volumes.

Strawman alert! Strawman alert! Not sure where "dancin" and "talkin politics" and "demurely sippin" mint juleps came from, anyone have any ideas? Ah Black Dog, as usual, full of symbolism, empty of substance.

No it's not a starwman. If anything the raging hypocricy is from moronic right wingers like you who faint whenever a Democrat does soemthing you decree undecorous, even as you champion mouth breathers like Ann Coulter, Dick "GFY" Cheney, etc etc. In short: Republicans set the bar for sleaze, but you lap it up like its bad chocolate.

Pretty weak, comparing Coulter's Moore-like attention-seeking antics on unwatched cable news talkshows with using the opportunity afforded by a famous and well respected woman's death to appeal to a partisan crowd and make inappropriate jabs at a captive and silent target. I don't know where you get off calling Dick Cheney a mouth breather though. I guess a mouth breather is anyone that BD disagrees with.

You're quite right. It's all about hypocrisy. Some morally bankrupt people find it perfectly acceptable to turn funerals into political conventions, however, thankfully, most regular people find it appalling. Can you imagine if President Bush took to the microphone and started into a political speech defending his policies at Mrs. King's funeral? Do you know what the kook-left would say? Do you know what colossal hypocrites like Black Dog would say? It's sad when one's hatred for President Bush so consumes them, that they lose all precepts of civility. Especially at funerals

Hmm. Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King spent their lives fighting poverty, racial injustice and war. They lived and breathed politics, and in the former's case, died because of them. So for mincing little pricks like you to declare that the event celebrating the life's work of one of these political activists should be free of politics (not to mention the titanic arrogance of presuming that you know civility from a hole in the ground) is ridiculous. The fact that it comes from a political party known for tarring its opponnents with every imaginable smear renders their sudden outrage an air of comic stupidity.

Dr. King had a dream that some day American minorities would be treated equally with whites. Finally, a president comes along who promotes two blacks to senior positions in his cabinet, and the knee-jerk left responds by declaring them "house niggers". And then you people turn around and use the occasion of his wife's funeral to politically attack this same president for not being as true to Dr. King's vision as you are. You've all got a lot of chutzpah.

[Black Dog]

And if you want a contest to see who is the greater hater....I'm ready, willing, and more than able to take you on.

I love anonymous internet bluster. Ah well. It makes Shady's knickers damp.

Um, the terrorist cells presumably being targeted by the controversial NSA program. Unless you really believe that Bush is jerking off to the secretly taped phone conversations of soccer moms.

False dilemna. Weak, dude.

Pretty weak, comparing Coulter's Moore-like attention-seeking antics on unwatched cable news talkshows with using the opportunity afforded by a famous and well respected woman's death to appeal to a partisan crowd and make inappropriate jabs at a captive and silent target. I don't know where you get off calling Dick Cheney a mouth breather though. I guess a mouth breather is anyone that BD disagrees with.

Right: Ann Coulter is a fringe character on the American right.

Keep up the feigned outrage, guys.

[BHS]

Um, the terrorist cells presumably being targeted by the controversial NSA program. Unless you really believe that Bush is jerking off to the secretly taped phone conversations of soccer moms.

False dilemna. Weak, dude.

How so? It was obvious from his speech that Carter was comparing the wire-tapping of the Kings to the current NSA wire tapping program, which is intended to target terrorist cells in the US. Comparing the two instances of wiretapping is the same as comparing the Kings to suspected terrorists, unless you really believe that the terrorist threat is a trope and the NSA is using terrorism as a blanket cover for the phone tapping of a broader segment of the public. I don't, but that seems to have been your argument in the past.

Right: Ann Coulter is a fringe character on the American right.

Keep up the feigned outrage, guys.

As I said, Ann Coulter is as much of a fringe loony on the right as is Michael Moore on the left. She's an attack-dog humour columnist who makes extreme and provocative statements for the sake of being funny. She's in no way central to the philosophical discussions of the American right wing, the way that, for instance, Kos and Atrios are on the left.

[Shady]

Call it boorish if you want, but take an actual look at the behaviour in question

I have read the actual behavior in question as well as viewed the video, and yes, I will call is boorish behavior, because that's what it was. You have every right to your opinion. However, in my opinion, chants of "we will win, we will win" cross the bounds of decency at a funeral.

False dilemna. Weak, dude

This from the master of the strawman, I love it!

[Black Dog]

How so? It was obvious from his speech that Carter was comparing the wire-tapping of the Kings to the current NSA wire tapping program, which is intended to target terrorist cells in the US. Comparing the two instances of wiretapping is the same as comparing the Kings to suspected terrorists, unless you really believe that the terrorist threat is a trope and the NSA is using terrorism as a blanket cover for the phone tapping of a broader segment of the public. I don't, but that seems to have been your argument in the past.

You've answered your own question here.

As I said, Ann Coulter is as much of a fringe loony on the right as is Michael Moore on the left. She's an attack-dog humour columnist who makes extreme and provocative statements for the sake of being funny. She's in no way central to the philosophical discussions of the American right wing, the way that, for instance, Kos and Atrios are on the left.

Ann Coulter is a best-seling authour, a Time magazine cover girl, a sought-after pundit and (I'm sure you've heard) one of the keynote speakers at the recent Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), one of the most prestigious conservative events around (incidentally, she used the speech as an opportuity to spout racial epitheths to much applause). So no, she is not some "fringe loony". And, contrary to your theory, I'd say Coulter is very much indicative of what passes for "philosophical discussions of the American right wing" these days, given how enthusiastically her schitck has been embraced by the rank-and-fill and duplicated by aspiring pundits and bloggers (see: Powerline, Little Green Footballs).

The point? It's fuckin' hilarious in a "omigod I can't believe they think we'll buy this" way, to see rightwingers' delicate sensibilities get upset over the comments of a man none of them had probably heard of before (Lowery) while they completely ignore the extremists within their own ranks, extremists who's influence and reach vastly exceeds that of your average Joeseph Lowery or Ward Churchill.

More: Lowery Defends His Criticism of Bush

he makes one very strong point here:

"The Republicans played politics during Reagan's funeral. Look how political it was. They are just trying to shelter Bush from reality"

Nor Democrats were invited to speak at Regan's funeral, which happened in the midst of a hotly contested presidential campaign. Also, conservative pundits from Rich Lowery to Rush Limbaugh used Reagan's death to bash current opponents of the Bush administration and its policies. But I guess if it doesn't actually happen at the funeral, there's no problem with using death to score political points right?

This from the master of the strawman, I love it!

Don't bother throwing around terms you don't understand, junior.

[BHS]

BD: I note that your rebuttal completely ignores that I was comparing Coulter to Moore, not Lowery. Let's all say it together now: RED HERRING. If you want your comparison to stand though, let me admit that I missed part where Coulter spoke at Reagan's funeral. I also missed the part where Reagan's eulogies were used as a bully pulpit to attack sitting politicians. But it was a long service, and I have an inordinately short attention span.

[Black Dog]

BD: I note that your rebuttal completely ignores that I was comparing Coulter to Moore, not Lowery. Let's all say it together now: RED HERRING.

Well, Michael Moore is not considered a fringe figure on the left (at least by the right), so I don't see how that helps your argument. Furthermore, the initial comparison was between the speakers at CSK's funeral (and the right wing reaction) and right-wing firebrands like Coulter. If anything, then, the addition of Moore to the equation is the red herring, one of your creation.

If you want your comparison to stand though, let me admit that I missed part where Coulter spoke at Reagan's funeral. I also missed the part where Reagan's eulogies were used as a bully pulpit to attack sitting politicians. But it was a long service, and I have an inordinately short attention span.

Split hairs much? Are we talking about funeral ettiquite here or is this a larger discussion about political discourse? I certainly wasn't talking about funerals only when I brought up what I see as hypocrisy on the part of right wingers who rail against the incivility of the left while allowing and indeed refusing to acknowledge similar or worse behaviour on the right. The fact you keep coming back to the minuteia of proper behaviour at funerals (which, really, is nobody's business but the mourners) shows you know I'm onto something.

[Montgomery Burns]

Black Dog:

What line is thta? More to the point: what fucking business is it of anyone if soemone's funeral is turned into a political rally, especially if that person was, ah, political? Where do the Republicans get off dictating what's proper? Who appointed the conservative punditocracy Miss Manners?

That BD. He's all class.

[Shady]

That BD. He's all class

He's also the master of the strawman, and now, the red herring! George Galloway would be proud!

[shoop]

Are you saying that was chanted at the Wellstone funeral? (Proof if you are?) Or the Wellstone funeral shouldn't have been part of the OP?

I have read the actual behavior in question as well as viewed the video, and yes, I will call is boorish behavior, because that's what it was. You have every right to your opinion. However, in my opinion, chants of "we will win, we will win" cross the bounds of decency at a funeral.

[Black Dog]

BHS: I thought about it and decided your Moore/Coulter comparison is worth revisiting. I still think it's a flawed comparison and one that doesn't support your point for the simple reason that Moore, fact-stretching provoceteur that he may be, simply doesn't compare to Coulter in terms of the sheer vitriol of the rhetoric. You simply don't see Moore going around saying the equivilant to Coulter gems like "I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantanamo"

Whatever Moore's schtick, he doesn't hold a candle to Coulter's vicious, mean-spiritied diatribes. (And I don't care if it is intended to be funny: it's not. Indeed, Coulter's pathological tendancy to resort to "jokes" about violently eliminating "liberals" should be deeply disturbing to anyone who cares about the purity of th epolitical discourse.)

That BD. He's all class

He's also the master of the strawman, and now, the red herring! George Galloway would be proud!

You keep repeating those debate terms as if you know what they mean. It's abundantly clear you do not, so why don't you just stick with your tried-and-true Monty Burns sycophancy and leave the arguing the grown ups, 'kay? There's a good boy.

[BHS]

Are you saying that was chanted at the Wellstone funeral? (Proof if you are?) Or the Wellstone funeral shouldn't have been part of the OP?

I have read the actual behavior in question as well as viewed the video, and yes, I will call is boorish behavior, because that's what it was. You have every right to your opinion. However, in my opinion, chants of "we will win, we will win" cross the bounds of decency at a funeral.

Via Google:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/stacks/wellstone.guest.html

Disregard Rush Limbaugh if you must, but there are plenty of links and references embedded.

[Montgomery Burns]

Black Dog:

You keep repeating those debate terms as if you know what they mean. It's abundantly clear you do not, so why don't you just stick with your tried-and-true Monty Burns sycophancy and leave the arguing the grown ups, 'kay? There's a good boy.

Invest in a dictionary, junior.

Why are kids allowed on political messageboards?

[Black Dog]

Black Dog:

You keep repeating those debate terms as if you know what they mean. It's abundantly clear you do not, so why don't you just stick with your tried-and-true Monty Burns sycophancy and leave the arguing the grown ups, 'kay? There's a good boy.

Invest in a dictionary, junior.

Why are kids allowed on political messageboards?

Aw that's cute. He's sticking up for his sock puppet.