Time to get rid of the NDP

[uOttawaMan]

Yay for trying to take away people's democratic rights.

Yeah, why don't we make Canada completely bi-partisan, eliminate the Bloc too, so we can have a stagnant minefield of a goverment like the US. Two parties = useless sack of crap.

[Riverwind]

Sparhawk, what say you?

I don't believe government should rely on a single type of tax. I feel the taxes are too heavily weighted on income now so the GST cut is a really bad idea. I would be happy if the consumption tax stayed around 15% but all future tax cuts came out of income tax.

[Hicksey]

Hicksey:

I'm saying that no matter how much you buy you pay the same taxes. That's not regressive.

There are many people talking up hybrids of this system that are so geared, but I think we should replace all taxation with the system I propose.

That sounds more like a flat tax. Do you mean the same percentage, or the same amount ?

Either way, the rich would pay less. That means you need to increase taxes for low/middle income earners to keep revenues the same.

Basically a flat tax on new goods--not used--with necessities exempt from taxation. Everyone pays the same percentage of tax. The percentage would be the result of taking our GDP and figuring out how what percentage of the GDP that government spending turns out to be.

[SamStranger]

How dare you people put me down for sharing my thoughts. This is a free country and I, and everyone one here, Am entitled to my opinion. I have backed up my ideas with rational thought, Im sorry I don't have a goddamn link for every one of my ideas--- I don't steal ideas from other websites, I come up with my own

I have nothing else to say on the matter of the NDP. I have explained my reasons for hating them. And Olivia Chows message yesterday was a testament to why I hate them. Who is she, and who are the NDP to make such bold statements with their lousy 2 million votes and 29 seats. They think they run parliment. Layton says "harper doesnt speak for most Canadians". Well then why did almost 6 million people vote Conservative, and only 2 and half for NDP???

F**k! You people are so lost. Stop getting your viewpoints from news reporters, come up with your own opinions. And Im sorry, i don't have a link to support that point

[uOttawaMan]

How dare you people put me down for sharing my thoughts. This is a free country and I, and everyone one here, Am entitled to my opinion. I have backed up my ideas with rational thought, Im sorry I don't have a goddamn link for every one of my ideas--- I don't steal ideas from other websites, I come up with my own

I have nothing else to say on the matter of the NDP. I have explained my reasons for hating them. And Olivia Chows message yesterday was a testament to why I hate them. Who is she, and who are the NDP to make such bold statements with their lousy 2 million votes and 29 seats. They think they run parliment. Layton says "harper doesnt speak for most Canadians". Well then why did almost 6 million people vote Conservative, and only 2 and half for NDP???

F**k! You people are so lost. Stop getting your viewpoints from news reporters, come up with your own opinions. And Im sorry, i don't have a link to support that point

Who are you to say people aren't coming up with their own viewpoints? Just because some people follow a certain line of thinking you don't like, doesn't mean you can flame them with reckless abandon and be like "GAWD WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID" and expect to be taken seriously.

[SamStranger]

I said... that all those people who keep giving me links to what news reporters are saying are ignorant, they shouldnt rely on others thoughts, they should come up with their own.

[Michael Hardner]

Sam:

You can say anything you like, but you're not going to convince anybody simply by saying "this is a good idea" and "you are stupid". Are you so easily convinced, that somebody can tell you "this is a good idea" and you'll buy into it ?

I didn't think so.

[uOttawaMan]

Sam:

You can say anything you like, but you're not going to convince anybody simply by saying "this is a good idea" and "you are stupid". Are you so easily convinced, that somebody can tell you "this is a good idea" and you'll buy into it ?

I didn't think so.

Don't you get it? He's got his "own" ideas, and reporters don't, they're all morons, so just listen to him, he knows it all.

[Michael Hardner]

Hicksey:

Basically a flat tax on new goods--not used--with necessities exempt from taxation. Everyone pays the same percentage of tax. The percentage would be the result of taking our GDP and figuring out how what percentage of the GDP that government spending turns out to be.

Read geoffrey's post. In order to replace income taxes, you'd need a huge consumption tax. And the wealthiest in Canada would see a huge tax cut.

Is that what you're talking about ?

[SamStranger]

Sam:

You can say anything you like, but you're not going to convince anybody simply by saying "this is a good idea" and "you are stupid". Are you so easily convinced, that somebody can tell you "this is a good idea" and you'll buy into it ?

I didn't think so.

Don't you get it? He's got his "own" ideas, and reporters don't, they're all morons, so just listen to him, he knows it all.

You people arent hearing me!!! Im not right about everything, what works for me prolly does not work for you, I understand that. But... all my ideas from my own mind---I don't take ideas from websites and them state them as personal opinion. My personal opinion is indeed personal. I never said anyone was stupid!! You people have something against me because I bash the NDP. Fine... I won't bash your precious NDP anymore. For a while I thought I was talking to fellow Conservatives on this site, I guesse I was wrong. But, that doesnt change my opinion on the NDP. No one on this site will ever change my mind about that party, I hate their policies and their ideology with a passion. they are so far to the left, and I am centered to the right.

[sage]

Read geoffrey's post. In order to replace income taxes, you'd need a huge consumption tax. And the wealthiest in Canada would see a huge tax cut.

Where exactly did Geoffrey's point suggest the wealthiest would receive a tax cut?

[Michael Hardner]

Sam:

I hate their policies and their ideology with a passion.

So long as you vote with your emotions (ie. hate) then you are by definition irrational.

There's nothing wrong with voting with your heart, but it shouldn't be confused with voting with the mind.

[Michael Hardner]

Sage:

Where exactly did Geoffrey's point suggest the wealthiest would receive a tax cut?

Sorry - it doesn't explicitly say that in his post, but that's what would happen.

If you make $500K (salary) now, you might pay something like $250K in income tax.

With a consumption tax, you'd never pay that much. The net result is a huge tax cut for the highest earners.

[sage]

Sage:

Where exactly did Geoffrey's point suggest the wealthiest would receive a tax cut?

Sorry - it doesn't explicitly say that in his post, but that's what would happen.

If you make $500K (salary) now, you might pay something like $250K in income tax.

With a consumption tax, you'd never pay that much. The net result is a huge tax cut for the highest earners.

I still don't know if this is accurate. I know people that make this much money and spend most of it from year to year.

Also your example is far too simplistic. On a $500,000 wage earner, they likely put a considerable amount into RRSP's, etc., thereby reducing their tax load even further. Compound this by the fact that most people that make $500,000 are in business (as opposed to wage earners) ans therefore they are incorporated and pay tax at somewhere between 15%-20%.

Of course my points are simplistic also, however I'm just saying it might not be such a bad idea and in order to actually have any serious discussion you can't just summarily dismiss the idea.

[Michael Hardner]

I still don't know if this is accurate. I know people that make this much money and spend most of it from year to year.

How do you know that ? I would think people who make that much money tend to invest a greater percentage than the average person.

Also your example is far too simplistic. On a $500,000 wage earner, they likely put a considerable amount into RRSP's, etc., thereby reducing their tax load even further.

There's a limit on that, though. But you're right. The actual tax rate is lower.

Compound this by the fact that most people that make $500,000 are in business (as opposed to wage earners) ans therefore they are incorporated and pay tax at somewhere between 15%-20%.

Right again.

Of course my points are simplistic also, however I'm just saying it might not be such a bad idea and in order to actually have any serious discussion you can't just summarily dismiss the idea.

Well, I'm not summarily dismissing it just asking for details. I'm sorry but I'm naturally suspicious of plans to cut the tax rate for the highest wage earners as this trend never seems to abate. Meanwhile, middle income earners have it tougher and tougher.

[sage]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, my personal preference would be to simply have income tax reduction start by an increase in the personal exemption.

[Riverwind]

There's a limit on that, though. But you're right. The actual tax rate is lower.

People making 500K as a salary pay close to 50% of their wages in tax. The deduction for RRPS does not do much for someone in that tax bracket.

Compound this by the fact that most people that make $500,000 are in business (as opposed to wage earners) ans therefore they are incorporated and pay tax at somewhere between 15%-20%.

Right again.

Wrong again. A business that earns 500K/year has expenses (i.e cost of goods sold). The percentage of gross income for business taxes is a meaningless and extremely misleading number.

[sage]

Sparhawk, I was speaking in terms of net income in order to make it comparable.

As for RRSP limits, they are at approx. $18,000 per year, though I also believe that this would not take into account the spousal contributions.

[Michael Hardner]

Wrong again. A business that earns 500K/year has expenses (i.e cost of goods sold). The percentage of gross income for business taxes is a meaningless and extremely misleading number.

How so ? Are you saying that if I make $500K in profit I'll pay the same as if I were sallaried ?

[Riverwind]

How so ? Are you saying that if I make $500K in profit I'll pay the same as if I were sallaried ?

Maybe more. Business tax rates are lower than personal taxation rates but if you leave the money in the company it only can be spent on legimate business expenses. If you actually want to use the money for personal purposes you have to pay the money out of the business as salary or dividends which means you pay personal tax as well. It is also not a good idea to invest the money inside the company because corporate tax rates on investment income are extremely high (close to 50% depending on your province).

[Michael Hardner]

What's the dividend rate ?

[Minimus Maximus]

How so ? Are you saying that if I make $500K in profit I'll pay the same as if I were sallaried ?

Maybe more. Business tax rates are lower than personal taxation rates but if you leave the money in the company it only can be spent on legimate business expenses. If you actually want to use the money for personal purposes you have to pay the money out of the business as salary or dividends which means you pay personal tax as well. It is also not a good idea to invest the money inside the company because corporate tax rates on investment income are extremely high (close to 50% depending on your province).

Bang on Sparhawk. This is the first year I have worked as an independant contractor and am slowly learning the rules. My accountant, who happens to be my sister in law, warned my wife and myself against drawing too much of a salary as we will certainly pay at tax time. The advantage of a small home based business is that I can have my company absorb some of my personal costs ie. internet service, cell phone service etc..., but at the end of the day I still am no more than a salaried employee of my company and the wage I draw is taxed at the same rate as it would be if I was not the owner.

The issue of dividends is something we are currently looking into as I have been told that we could each take up to $15000/year? tax free. I am not sure if this is correct as my sister in law is in Australia for the next month or so I will find out for sure when she gets back.

[Michael Hardner]

Bang on Sparhawk. This is the first year I have worked as an independant contractor and am slowly learning the rules. My accountant, who happens to be my sister in law, warned my wife and myself against drawing too much of a salary as we will certainly pay at tax time. The advantage of a small home based business is that I can have my company absorb some of my personal costs ie. internet service, cell phone service etc...,

Strictly speaking, that's illegal. Of course, Revenue Canada would have a hard time proving you're using business resources personally, you're not supposed to do that.

but at the end of the day I still am no more than a salaried employee of my company and the wage I draw is taxed at the same rate as it would be if I was not the owner.

And the remainder ? Ahh... I see below.

The issue of dividends is something we are currently looking into as I have been told that we could each take up to $15000/year? tax free. I am not sure if this is correct as my sister in law is in Australia for the next month or so I will find out for sure when she gets back.

We're on a bit of a tangent from the issue of flat-taxing now, though, which was a tangent on the NDP's general philosophy.

[Hicksey]

Under the system that I talked about, there are no tax breaks. Zero, none. If you want a tax break, you buy used goods. If not you pay tax.

[lost&outofcontrol]

You people arent hearing me!!! Im not right about everything, what works for me prolly does not work for you, I understand that. But... all my ideas from my own mind---I don't take ideas from websites and them state them as personal opinion. My personal opinion is indeed personal.

And that's the problem Sam, you can't just fartup ideas out of your mind. Just because someone might think pink elephants are real doesn't make it true. I state my opinions and base them on research done by other people; they're still opinions but at least I didn't fart them up. At the very least read the links given to you then state your opinion on them. If you don't want to read up on the positions others take against yours that's fine, but don't reply with drivel taken from your "mind".

Cheers