What worries me about a Biden 2nd Term

[User]

9 minutes ago, Hodad said:

 

And yes, illegally overturning or ignoring the established political system (an election, in this case) to seize power is and always has constituted a coup. And, yes, the engineers of the Eastman scheme knew full will it was illegal. They just didn't care. 

I see. So pursuing specious legal theories that are found not to be legal... is an attempt to seize power and a coup!

I look forward to our finally locking Al Gore up for his unconstitutional (illegal) attempts to overturn the 2000 election. His conspiracy to defraud the United States went unpunished. 

So again... why isn't Trump being charged with something that serious if it was so obvious?

Biden knew what he was doing with Student Loans was not Constitutional and he did it anyway... Obama knew what he was doing with DACA was not Constitutional and he did it anyway... on and on and on... 

[gatomontes99]

Let me just wade in with my top worries in order of when I think of them.

Border - Increased immigration (especially illegal immigration) will stifle wages in an oppressive period of inflation.

Central Bank Currency - CBC can be monitored by the government and the government can literally approve or deny purchases of legal items to control economic or social patterns.

Climate Emergency - The idea is being floated that declaring a "climate emergency" would give the president powers equivalent to post 9/11, COVID or war. Using those powers, the POTUS could (without congressional approval) unilaterally institute carbon controls that would effectively eliminate most rights.

Wealth tax - imagine paying a yearly tax on the equity of your home or your 401K. That is a plan the Biden admin is considering.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

I'm not even talking about the insurrection, you twit. That's a separate crime altogether. Trump didn't want Pence dead. He needed Pence. He just wanted him scared enough to feel compelled to help Trump illegally seize power through the Eastman coup plan.

And if "soft coup" is a gap in your vocabulary, that's not my fault or my problem. Go read a book. 

Go fck urself Libbie.

Your accusations are dumb and obviously desperate.

Edited April 24 by Nationalist

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

Let me just wade in with my top worries in order of when I think of them.

Border - Increased immigration (especially illegal immigration) will stifle wages in an oppressive period of inflation.

Central Bank Currency - CBC can be monitored by the government and the government can literally approve or deny purchases of legal items to control economic or social patterns.

Climate Emergency - The idea is being floated that declaring a "climate emergency" would give the president powers equivalent to post 9/11, COVID or war. Using those powers, the POTUS could (without congressional approval) unilaterally institute carbon controls that would effectively eliminate most rights.

Wealth tax - imagine paying a yearly tax on the equity of your home or your 401K. That is a plan the Biden admin is considering.

That may be the best recipe for Civil War that I've ever seen. 

[Hodad]

43 minutes ago, User said:

I see. So pursuing specious legal theories that are found not to be legal... is an attempt to seize power and a coup!

I look forward to our finally locking Al Gore up for his unconstitutional (illegal) attempts to overturn the 2000 election. His conspiracy to defraud the United States went unpunished. 

So again... why isn't Trump being charged with something that serious if it was so obvious?

Biden knew what he was doing with Student Loans was not Constitutional and he did it anyway... Obama knew what he was doing with DACA was not Constitutional and he did it anyway... on and on and on... 

I hope you're just being disingenuous here. Very obviously, pursuing legal clarity in a very tight election with some very thorny questions (Gore) is wildly different than attempting to seize power illegally after a dramatic loss (Trump). In no way is that a serious comparison.

The charges Smith brought are a) easier to prove and b) carry harsher sentences. That's an easy choice.

And, again, very obviously, the student loan and DACA issues are reasonable legal questions and examples of why we have checks and balances and judicial review. Surely you understand how vastly different that is from the coup attempt, in which there was no legal question whatsoever. Nobody on Trump's coup crew thought that the United States had been doing elections all wrong for 250 years and that suddenly they had discovered the "truth" of the constitution--that the VP can simply choose a winner. Nobody thought that. GTFO.

[Hodad]

16 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Go fck urself Libbie.

Your accusations are dumb and obviously desperate.

🙄Again, those aren't accusations. It's just a recounting of events that actually happened. Whether the perpetrators will be held legally liable is a separate question, but what happened happened. 

If you think those actions sound "desperate," yes, they were. Why do you think Trump was so desperate to cling to power? 

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, Hodad said:

🙄Again, those aren't accusations. It's just a recounting of events that actually happened. Whether the perpetrators will be held legally liable is a separate question, but what happened happened. 

If you think those actions sound "desperate," yes, they were. Why do you think Trump was so desperate to cling to power? 

You're warped. Trump did nothing to "scare" Pence. You can scream "SOFT COUP" all you like. It's nothing but a warped joke.

[User]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

I hope you're just being disingenuous here. Very obviously, pursuing legal clarity in a very tight election with some very thorny questions (Gore) is wildly different than attempting to seize power illegally after a dramatic loss (Trump). In no way is that a serious comparison.

The charges Smith brought are a) easier to prove and b) carry harsher sentences. That's an easy choice.

And, again, very obviously, the student loan and DACA issues are reasonable legal questions and examples of why we have checks and balances and judicial review. Surely you understand how vastly different that is from the coup attempt, in which there was no legal question whatsoever. Nobody on Trump's coup crew thought that the United States had been doing elections all wrong for 250 years and that suddenly they had discovered the "truth" of the constitution--that the VP can simply choose a winner. Nobody thought that. GTFO.

LOL, wait a minute. You have been saying this is so obviously a coup! It is so apparent! How can I not see it?!

Then this: 

"The charges Smith brought are a) easier to prove"

Yeah, if one of us is being disingenuous here, it certainly is not me. Obama outright said DACA was not Constitutional, he didn't have the power... and yet he did it anyway. Just about everyone except left wing Democrats all agreed that Biden did not have the power to unilaterally wipe out the Student Debt as he did... and it was found unconstitutional. There was nothing reasonable about them. They were both pure power grabs they just wanted to see if they could get away with... and Obama got away with his. 

Just like if any of the stupid plans and legal theories team Trump tried to execute on... they would have been tossed out under judicial review. 

And what the Democrats were trying to do with Al Gore, while not as convoluted, was just as wrong on its face. They were trying to selectively recount votes in the way that would most favor them to win the election. That was wrong, it was illegal, and the Courts seen through the scheme. 

[Deluge]

On 4/22/2024 at 8:20 PM, Hodad said:

I would avoid any city center the day after the election.

I would too:

 

[Hodad]

6 hours ago, User said:

LOL, wait a minute. You have been saying this is so obviously a coup! It is so apparent! How can I not see it?!

Then this: 

"The charges Smith brought are a) easier to prove"

It was a blatantly and willfully illegal attempt to overturn an election and seize power. For the first time in the nation's history, a sitting president refused the peaceful transfer of power upon which our democracy is predicated. There is no precedent for it. There is no process to deal with it. Prior to this instance, it was unthinkable. The ONLY reason we didn't immediately plunge into an unimaginable constitutional crisis is because this particular desecration of the office was a bridge too far for otherwise compliant. Mike Pence. The republic is intact today because he grew a backbone when it mattered most.

What name would you like to give it?

 

Quote

Yeah, if one of us is being disingenuous here, it certainly is not me. Obama outright said DACA was not Constitutional, he didn't have the power... and yet he did it anyway. Just about everyone except left wing Democrats all agreed that Biden did not have the power to unilaterally wipe out the Student Debt as he did... and it was found unconstitutional. There was nothing reasonable about them. They were both pure power grabs they just wanted to see if they could get away with... and Obama got away with his. 

Just like if any of the stupid plans and legal theories team Trump tried to execute on... they would have been tossed out under judicial review. 

The Lousiana Purchase was unconstitutional. Presidents test powers all the time. And it often works out. This is not that.

You cannot seriously be arguing that testing presidential powers, as all presidents have done, is in any way, shape or form the same thing as an attempted coup. That's just laughable. 

"Sure, Trump tried to engineer a coup, but Biden tried to forgive some student loans, so he's just as bad! Hyuk!"

You people have gotten to the point where you can hand-wave and rationalize and forgive and support any insane thing that Trump does, but I cannot even begin to imagine the outrage if a losing Biden leaned on Harris to illegally seize power in the same fashion.

Quote

And what the Democrats were trying to do with Al Gore, while not as convoluted, was just as wrong on its face. They were trying to selectively recount votes in the way that would most favor them to win the election. That was wrong, it was illegal, and the Courts seen through the scheme. 

That's nonsense. It's actually pretty common practice to request recounts in specific counties--particularly when counties control the administration of ballots. And that was indeed the practice in Florida at the time. And it was NOT obviously illegal. Indeed, it was the Florida Supreme Court ordered those individually recounted counties included. 

But beyond that, again, it's wildly disingenuous to compare pursuit of legal remedy to pursuit of illegal remedy. Trump was allowed every opportunity to appeal to the courts, just as Gore and Bush did. He and his cronies were laughed out of court 60+ times because they had no evidence and no legal standing. When that happens, it means you've lost. It doesn't mean that the next option is to stage a farking coup. Complete bullshit that you'd justify the latter with the former. 

[Nationalist]

31 minutes ago, Hodad said:

It was a blatantly and willfully illegal attempt to overturn an election and seize power. For the first time in the nation's history, a sitting president refused the peaceful transfer of power upon which our democracy is predicated. There is no precedent for it. There is no process to deal with it. Prior to this instance, it was unthinkable. The ONLY reason we didn't immediately plunge into an unimaginable constitutional crisis is because this particular desecration of the office was a bridge too far for otherwise compliant. Mike Pence. The republic is intact today because he grew a backbone when it mattered most.

What name would you like to give it?

 

The Lousiana Purchase was unconstitutional. Presidents test powers all the time. And it often works out. This is not that.

You cannot seriously be arguing that testing presidential powers, as all presidents have done, is in any way, shape or form the same thing as an attempted coup. That's just laughable. 

"Sure, Trump tried to engineer a coup, but Biden tried to forgive some student loans, so he's just as bad! Hyuk!"

You people have gotten to the point where you can hand-wave and rationalize and forgive and support any insane thing that Trump does, but I cannot even begin to imagine the outrage if a losing Biden leaned on Harris to illegally seize power in the same fashion.

That's nonsense. It's actually pretty common practice to request recounts in specific counties--particularly when counties control the administration of ballots. And that was indeed the practice in Florida at the time. And it was NOT obviously illegal. Indeed, it was the Florida Supreme Court ordered those individually recounted counties included. 

But beyond that, again, it's wildly disingenuous to compare pursuit of legal remedy to pursuit of illegal remedy. Trump was allowed every opportunity to appeal to the courts, just as Gore and Bush did. He and his cronies were laughed out of court 60+ times because they had no evidence and no legal standing. When that happens, it means you've lost. It doesn't mean that the next option is to stage a farking coup. Complete bullshit that you'd justify the latter with the former. 

Sally...Trump did not refuse the peaceful transfer of power. On the 23rd, the power transfer happened without a hitch.

You need to stop lying so regularly. 

[Hodad]

5 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Sally...Trump did not refuse the peaceful transfer of power. On the 23rd, the power transfer happened without a hitch.

You need to stop lying so regularly. 

You mean *after* the coup failed? 🙄

[User]

5 hours ago, Hodad said:

...The ONLY reason we didn't immediately plunge into an unimaginable constitutional crisis is because this particular desecration of the office was a bridge too far for otherwise compliant. Mike Pence. The republic is intact today because he grew a backbone when it mattered most...

That's nonsense. It's actually pretty common practice to request recounts in specific counties--particularly when counties control the administration of ballots. And that was indeed the practice in Florida at the time. And it was NOT obviously illegal. Indeed, it was the Florida Supreme Court ordered those individually recounted counties included. 

But beyond that, again, it's wildly disingenuous to compare pursuit of legal remedy to pursuit of illegal remedy. Trump was allowed every opportunity to appeal to the courts, just as Gore and Bush did. He and his cronies were laughed out of court 60+ times because they had no evidence and no legal standing. When that happens, it means you've lost. It doesn't mean that the next option is to stage a farking coup. Complete bullshit that you'd justify the latter with the former. 

No, it was a specious legal theory on how they could challenge the results they felt were fraudulent. Trump left office peacefully.

This is such fear-mongering. I am surprised you are not using the typical leftist language that we almost lost our Democracy! We were this close! It would have been Dictator Trump, it was so close, only by the grace of God and Pence did our Democracy survive!

That is all extreme leftist fear-mongering not rooted in any reality, just as your characterization is. Even if Pence went along with the nonsense, as you and others continually point out, it was clearly not legally correct, so it would have been clearly stopped. Just because Pence walks out and declared Trump the World Heavyweight Champion of the WWE and slaps a fake belt around him, doesn't mean he really is. The WWE isn't going to go, well fudge, I guess Trump is the WWE champ, Pence said so. 

You just keep arguing from the premise that it was a coup. I reject that, so constantly calling it a coup and acting outraged about it here... doesn't make it a coup. Its just a circular argument telling me it was a coup so I must be outraged about the coup... 

No, it is not pretty common at all for a losing Candidate to try to conspire to overthrow the government by selectively recounting ballots and trying to "interpret" them a certain way to most benefit him so he could steal the election... 

13 minutes ago, Hodad said:

You mean *after* the coup failed? 🙄

We mean... there was a peaceful transfer of power. Trump walked right out after. You keep alluding to it not being so:

"For the first time in the nation's history, a sitting president refused the peaceful transfer of power upon which our democracy is predicated. "

No, Trump did not refuse at all. We all watched him walk out of the Office and Biden is in Office. 

[Nationalist]

6 hours ago, Hodad said:

You mean *after* the coup failed? 🙄

There was no coup. You should stop lying now. You look ridiculous. 

[Hodad]

On 4/23/2024 at 12:37 PM, ironstone said:

Jan 6 was a bad day, but it wasn't by any stretch the worst day for the country. It was a small riot perpetrated by a small group of fools. They have been harshly dealt with, as well as many others who were entirely peaceful.

The problem is inherently a left-wing thing. You guys over-react to just about everything because of your need for safe spaces, your fear of micro-aggressions, anxiety issues, trigger warnings, everything is racist, white privilege and on and on it goes.

Freud would have a field day with you guys and your long list of phobias.

The problem? What is "the problem"? Sorry, but only one political party has hunted legislators through the halls of the capitol, calling for the murder of the Vice President. Only one politician has tried to end the republic and seize power through a soft coup after losing an election. 

 

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

There was no coup. You should stop lying now. You look ridiculous. 

You're half right. There was only an attempted coup. It was, thankfully, thwarted by Mike Pence, who put the good of the country before his own self interests. 

Edited April 26 by Hodad

[Hodad]

13 hours ago, User said:

No, it was a specious legal theory on how they could challenge the results they felt were fraudulent. Trump left office peacefully.

This is such fear-mongering. I am surprised you are not using the typical leftist language that we almost lost our Democracy! We were this close! It would have been Dictator Trump, it was so close, only by the grace of God and Pence did our Democracy survive!

That is all extreme leftist fear-mongering not rooted in any reality, just as your characterization is. Even if Pence went along with the nonsense, as you and others continually point out, it was clearly not legally correct, so it would have been clearly stopped. Just because Pence walks out and declared Trump the World Heavyweight Champion of the WWE and slaps a fake belt around him, doesn't mean he really is. The WWE isn't going to go, well fudge, I guess Trump is the WWE champ, Pence said so. 

You just keep arguing from the premise that it was a coup. I reject that, so constantly calling it a coup and acting outraged about it here... doesn't make it a coup. Its just a circular argument telling me it was a coup so I must be outraged about the coup... 

No, it is not pretty common at all for a losing Candidate to try to conspire to overthrow the government by selectively recounting ballots and trying to "interpret" them a certain way to most benefit him so he could steal the election... 

We mean... there was a peaceful transfer of power. Trump walked right out after. You keep alluding to it not being so:

"For the first time in the nation's history, a sitting president refused the peaceful transfer of power upon which our democracy is predicated. "

No, Trump did not refuse at all. We all watched him walk out of the Office and Biden is in Office. 

No, I keep calling it a coup attempt in the same way that I keep calling the ocean water: that's just what it is. That's the definition. That's the word to describe these events. 

If you want to make up a new word for it, have fun with that. It won't change the unthinkable extremity of the events that transpired. 

 

Your argument boils down to, "Well it probably would have been reversed even if it had succeeded." Which is a) pure speculation and b) the same kind of willful naivete found in every passive population that sat idly on their arses and watched a coup steal their country. It happens all the time. And you think the United States is somehow magically immune to it? That's nonsense.

It's a fact that we have no constitutionally prescribed response or remedy for that sort of thing. We'd have been completely and totally off script, with the man who lead the coup still in charge of the military and with support from nearly half the country. 

If you think there's any predictable outcome in that scenario you're dreaming. 

Edited April 26 by Hodad

[Nationalist]

18 minutes ago, Hodad said:

The problem? What is "the problem"? Sorry, but only one political party has hunted legislators through the halls of the capitol, calling for the murder of the Vice President. Only one politician has tried to end the republic and seize power through a soft coup after losing an election. 

 

You're half right. There was only an attempted coup. It was, thankfully, thwarted by Mike Pence, who put the good of the country before his own self interests. 

Hodad...your continuous harping about the insurrection that wasn't is tiring and a complete lie.

No "political party" hunted anyone.

No politician hunted anyone.

Your constant attempts to force a square peg in a round hole is ridiculous.

As are you.

[Hodad]

19 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Sally...Trump did not refuse the peaceful transfer of power. On the 23rd, the power transfer happened without a hitch.

You need to stop lying so regularly. 

Nancy, he tried and failed--and he was furious about it. You want to give him credit for failing in an attempted coup and call that a peaceful transfer of power? 

Hell, they were still patching the windows and door at the capitol and scrubbing blood off the floor. 

[Hodad]

17 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Hodad...your continuous harping about the insurrection that wasn't is tiring and a complete lie.

No "political party" hunted anyone.

No politician hunted anyone.

Your constant attempts to force a square peg in a round hole is ridiculous.

As are you.

You may be old, but we live in the era of video recording. Anyone can watch the MAGA mob howling "Hang Mike Pence," and erecting gallows and literally pursuing imperiled legislators, cornering them, and smashing through the door to get to the last place of refuge--before a shot was fired to stop the incursion. All of that is recorded and shine a stark light on your revisionist lies.

[User]

24 minutes ago, Hodad said:

No, I keep calling it a coup attempt in the same way that I keep calling the ocean water: that's just what it is. That's the definition. That's the word to describe these events. 

If you want to make up a new word for it, have fun with that. It won't change the unthinkable extremity of the events that transpired. 

 

Your argument boils down to, "Well it probably would have been reversed even if it had succeeded." Which is a) pure speculation and b) the same kind of willful naivete found in every passive population that sat idly on their arses and watched a coup steal their country. It happens all the time. And you think the United States is somehow magically immune to it? That's nonsense.

It's a fact that we have no constitutionally prescribed response or remedy for that sort of thing. We'd have been completely and totally off script, with the man who lead the coup still in charge of the military and with support from nearly half the country. 

If you think there's any predictable outcome in that scenario you're dreaming. 

No, my argument has been expecting you to actually articulate some kind of real logical and rational reason for why you call it a coup. 

Your argument has continually boiled down to: Its a coup because its a coup! 

Just brilliant. 

So, back to the same obvious question I asked you before and caught you in... its so obviously a coup, that he is not being taken to court for any such related charges. 

Clearly, it is not that obvious after all. 

I am no more speculating on the outcome than you are with your fear mongering about how if Pence did what was asked of him then that would have been the end! We are off script and have no clue what to do next!

Yeah, sure. This is the same dumb stuff we hear about the rioting on January 6th. Like it was a game of capture the flag, only if the QAnon Shaman held onto the Chamber for another hour would he have been declared Emperor of America, and we all would have had to play along. 

Your kind of devotion to the pablum of "its a coup because its a coup" might be a big hit with the left-wing types at the local Democratic Socialist meetings... but when you start putting that garbage on a public forum, you need to be better prepared to explain it. 

[Nationalist]

14 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Nancy, he tried and failed--and he was furious about it. You want to give him credit for failing in an attempted coup and call that a peaceful transfer of power? 

Hell, they were still patching the windows and door at the capitol and scrubbing blood off the floor. 

No they were not "scrubbing blood off the floor" on the 23rd.

Man you just lie constantly don't you.

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, Hodad said:

You may be old, but we live in the era of video recording. Anyone can watch the MAGA mob howling "Hang Mike Pence," and erecting gallows and literally pursuing imperiled legislators, cornering them, and smashing through the door to get to the last place of refuge--before a shot was fired to stop the incursion. All of that is recorded and shine a stark light on your revisionist lies.

Ya...a brave cop shot an unarmed woman who happened to be a military veteran.

You're full of sh1t.!

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

The problem? What is "the problem"? Sorry, but only one political party has hunted legislators through the halls of the capitol, calling for the murder of the Vice President. Only one politician has tried to end the republic and seize power through a soft coup after losing an election. 

 

You're half right. There was only an attempted coup. It was, thankfully, thwarted by Mike Pence, who put the good of the country before his own self interests. 

January 6 sure was scary. You must STILL be quivering in your little boots. I mean, the video tapes alone are nightmare fuel, aren't they comrade. 

My God, it's enough to scare the ever loving shit out of any wokeflake: 

 

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, User said:

No, my argument has been expecting you to actually articulate some kind of real logical and rational reason for why you call it a coup. 

Your argument has continually boiled down to: Its a coup because its a coup! 

Just brilliant. 

So, back to the same obvious question I asked you before and caught you in... its so obviously a coup, that he is not being taken to court for any such related charges. 

Clearly, it is not that obvious after all. 

I am no more speculating on the outcome than you are with your fear mongering about how if Pence did what was asked of him then that would have been the end! We are off script and have no clue what to do next!

Yeah, sure. This is the same dumb stuff we hear about the rioting on January 6th. Like it was a game of capture the flag, only if the QAnon Shaman held onto the Chamber for another hour would he have been declared Emperor of America, and we all would have had to play along. 

Your kind of devotion to the pablum of "its a coup because its a coup" might be a big hit with the left-wing types at the local Democratic Socialist meetings... but when you start putting that garbage on a public forum, you need to be better prepared to explain it. 

So, you want me to literally post definitions of the word "coup"? Articles exploring the concept? Is that a good use of anyone's time? Is this a new word? Do we need a glossary of basic words? WTF?

Fine:

Webster:

Noun.  a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group : COUP D'ÉTAT

Dictionary.com

a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.
Cambridge

a sudden illegal, often violent, taking of government power, especially by part of an army:

Vocabulary.com

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/coup

Oxford

a sudden change of government that is illegal and often violent

^^WTF are we doing here? Is there any question that the loser of an election scheming to ignore and reject the certified EV votes in a scheme to seize and retain power for himself is illegal? Nope. Is there any question that's what Trump did? Nope. So why are you invested in pretending it was something other than a coup attempt?

 

Here's a thoughtful analysis from decidedly "un-left" CATO: Yes, It Was an Attempted Coup

 

 

I don't believe there is any statute in US law (related to domestic affairs) that includes the word "coup." Does that mean anything? Nope. But apparently in your world if a person can't be charged with a criminal code containing the word, the word simply can't be applied as a label. 🙄

The only argument you've made for why it shouldn't be considered a coup is that you imagine it would have been reversed (through some unexplained mechanism) if he had succeeded. That's not a real argument. 

 

[User]

14 minutes ago, Hodad said:

So, you want me to literally post definitions of the word "coup"? Articles exploring the concept? Is that a good use of anyone's time? Is this a new word? Do we need a glossary of basic words? WTF?

Fine:

Webster:

Noun.  a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group : COUP D'ÉTAT

Dictionary.com

a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.
Cambridge

a sudden illegal, often violent, taking of government power, especially by part of an army:

Vocabulary.com

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/coup

Oxford

a sudden change of government that is illegal and often violent

^^WTF are we doing here? Is there any question that the loser of an election scheming to ignore and reject the certified EV votes in a scheme to seize and retain power for himself is illegal? Nope. Is there any question that's what Trump did? Nope. So why are you invested in pretending it was something other than a coup attempt?

 

Here's a thoughtful analysis from decidedly "un-left" CATO: Yes, It Was an Attempted Coup

 

 

I don't believe there is any statute in US law (related to domestic affairs) that includes the word "coup." Does that mean anything? Nope. But apparently in your world if a person can't be charged with a criminal code containing the word, the word simply can't be applied as a label. 🙄

The only argument you've made for why it shouldn't be considered a coup is that you imagine it would have been reversed (through some unexplained mechanism) if he had succeeded. That's not a real argument. 

 

I did not ask you to define coup. I asked you to support your claim this was a coup. 

Testing specious legal theories is just that. How many times do we have to have the same discussion? When Al Gore tested his legal theory that he could selectively recount ballots in a way that benefited him... it should have been obvious on its face what he was doing was trying to find an end around the votes that had already been repeatedly counted already. 

When you are testing theories... they prove out to be legal or not AFTER you test them. And again... a coup needs something to be successful, Trump had no support of the military, of other government apparatus, nor people... he was playing out an absurdly concocted legal theory and it failed. Even if Pence went along with it... then what? The Military is going to go along with it? Congress was going to go along with it? The Supreme Court?

Just because Pence comes out and declares Trump supreme ruler of the Universe doesn't make it so. 

A coup, it was not. 

A coup would fall under any of the crimes around sedition, treason, or insurrection. That is why I said very specifically related criminal statutes, not just coup. So, your little word games are a strawman on your part. 

As far as CATO goes... Have you ever heard of the horseshoe theory? They are so far right-wing libertarian on some issues, like immigration, among others, that they circle back around to meet up with the far left wing. Acting like because some CATO commentator's opinion on this was that it was a coup doesn't make it a coup.