EGALE

[geoffrey]

No, the age of consent law says NOTHING about adults.

It talks about the age of consent.

It's possible for two teens to violate the age of consent law and still not be adults -- such as two kids in a relationship which was legal until one of them turns 16, for instance.

Again, NOTHING about adults was mentioned in the release. It's entirely imagined by betsy and yourself.

No your wrong, the age consent is consent to an adult. Two 16 year old are legally allowed to have sex. They specifically advocated lowering the consent age to 14, that means that a 14 year old would legally be ok to have sex with an adult.

The ages should be equal I guess (homosexual and hetrosexual), but not at 14 thats for sure.

[Montgomery Burns]

I read a statement from the EGALE site recently and I was shocked at how intolerant they were. Their hatred for conservatives and Christians was shocking.

[betsy]

For those of you who are new to the forum and had missed the heated exchanges....I'm resurrecting this old topic rather than start a new one, due to the Foley scandal.

[M.Dancer]

For those of you who are new to the forum and had missed the heated exchanges....I'm resurrecting this old topic rather than start a new one.

much ado about nothing

As long as the difference in age between two consent people is not great.....if two 14 year olds want to engage in horny frottage...there should be no crime.

If one though is 21 and the other is 14.....then there is an issue which should be criminalized. Or even 56 and 16........

[geoffrey]

For those of you who are new to the forum and had missed the heated exchanges....I'm resurrecting this old topic rather than start a new one.

much ado about nothing

As long as the difference in age between two consent people is not great.....if two 14 year olds want to engage in horny frottage...there should be no crime.

If one though is 21 and the other is 14.....then there is an issue which should be criminalized. Or even 56 and 16........

Good point Dancer, raising the age of consent to 16 wouldn't make such an action illegal in Canada.

Now, the action of Mr. Foley is illegal in Canada, I posted the relevant part of the Criminal Code in a post about Congressman Foley (which I can't find now) and so in that regard, the 56 year old generally will be disallowed from making sexual advances to a minor.

Raising the age of consent does make sense though, there is definitely coercion at play between say a 22 or 23 year old and 14 year old. It's trouble, and the age of consent needs to be raised.

[M.Dancer]

For those of you who are new to the forum and had missed the heated exchanges....I'm resurrecting this old topic rather than start a new one.

much ado about nothing

As long as the difference in age between two consent people is not great.....if two 14 year olds want to engage in horny frottage...there should be no crime.

If one though is 21 and the other is 14.....then there is an issue which should be criminalized. Or even 56 and 16........

Good point Dancer, raising the age of consent to 16 wouldn't make such an action illegal in Canada.

Now, the action of Mr. Foley is illegal in Canada, I posted the relevant part of the Criminal Code in a post about Congressman Foley (which I can't find now) and so in that regard, the 56 year old generally will be disallowed from making sexual advances to a minor.

Raising the age of consent does make sense though, there is definitely coercion at play between say a 22 or 23 year old and 14 year old. It's trouble, and the age of consent needs to be raised.

Personaly I think the age of consent is flawed. I think there should be legal guidlines......if a 15 and an adult (18) have sex.....that may be okay.....but a 15 and a 21 is pushing the envelope. I think the guidline should be the age difference between the minor and the adult. I mean...if the age of consent is 16...would you want the courst dealing with the sexual history of a 15 who's been doing a 17 year old?

[geoffrey]

Personaly I think the age of consent is flawed. I think there should be legal guidlines......if a 15 and an adult (18) have sex.....that may be okay.....but a 15 and a 21 is pushing the envelope. I think the guidline should be the age difference between the minor and the adult. I mean...if the age of consent is 16...would you want the courst dealing with the sexual history of a 15 who's been doing a 17 year old?

It's age of consent with an adult. 15 and 17 year old partners wouldn't be illegal.

15 and 18 is really pushing it in my opinion, there is some real issues there. Being said...

What your proposing is that old fashioned rule, divide by two, add 7?? Or something along those lines??

When does that rule stop taking effect, after the younger party is 18? Or do we prosecute the Demi Moores of our world?

[M.Dancer]

Personaly I think the age of consent is flawed. I think there should be legal guidlines......if a 15 and an adult (18) have sex.....that may be okay.....but a 15 and a 21 is pushing the envelope. I think the guidline should be the age difference between the minor and the adult. I mean...if the age of consent is 16...would you want the courst dealing with the sexual history of a 15 who's been doing a 17 year old?

It's age of consent with an adult. 15 and 17 year old partners wouldn't be illegal.

15 and 18 is really pushing it in my opinion, there is some real issues there. Being said...

What your proposing is that old fashioned rule, divide by two, add 7?? Or something along those lines??

When does that rule stop taking effect, after the younger party is 18? Or do we prosecute the Demi Moores of our world?

Well I think Demi should be strip searched......but Ashton is of age......

No complicated math I think.....just a maximum age gap based on age.....a 17 seeing a 20 year old may be okay (unless your the father) but a 17 seeing a 25 year old.......

I mentioned earlier in another thread about a friend, his 14 year old daughter (turned 15 in july) was "seeing" a 28 year old. The police would do nothing (as the girl said nothing was improper...actually she told her parents to fuck off and mind their own business...) the school board where the fellow worked would do nothing.....

Long story short, she was diagnosed with herpes this summer......parents paid a few hundred to have the adult's face rearranged and hands broken......

I'm not saying that I approve, but you won't get me to condemn their restraint either.....

[Chrissy1979]

I had a 21-year-old boyfriend when I was 15. There was no coercion involved and he was really sweet.

[geoffrey]

I had a 21-year-old boyfriend when I was 15. There was no coercion involved and he was really sweet.

I guess those pathetically immature people out there that need young teenagers to satisfy themselves should be respected? No way.

Younger girls (and guys perhaps) look up to these people, and definitely lower their standards just because they are older. Age in itself is a position of authority, I don't agree with such a difference being completely free of coercion.

Congratulations if you were mature enough at 15 (not even in high school?) and dating someone that should be looking at a career, but hey, if thats the case I have little doubt that you'd be the extreme exception, not the rule. It's an absolutely disturbing thought that someone nearly done university would be interested in a grade 9 student... something isn't right there IMO and probably in the opinions of most people out there.

[watching&waiting]

I my day and it is not that long ago, a 21 year old dating a 15 year old, would have had not only the parents up in arms, but the community would have made his being able to be there impossible. The only way a 21 year old and 15 year old are equalls is if the 21 year old is retared by 6 years. If you were my daughter back then I would have grounded you and made sure that the 21 year old never would again come around.

[geoffrey]

I my day and it is not that long ago, a 21 year old dating a 15 year old, would have had not only the parents up in arms, but the community would have made his being able to be there impossible. The only way a 21 year old and 15 year old are equalls is if the 21 year old is retared by 6 years. If you were my daughter back then I would have grounded you and made sure that the 21 year old never would again come around.

I'm around the older age mentioned, and if anyone I knew was dating a 15 year old, I certainly wouldn't be associating with them. The thought of it is just disgusting. I'd classify that as pedophilia without much question. I think society does frown upon such things, where it happens is in the undercurrents, drug cultures, raver types, that's where I've seen it anyways. I don't know of anyone in the educated, outgoing, 'normal' group of people in my university that would even think of dating a grade 9 student. It's sick to be frank.

Ideally, we wouldn't need a law if parents would be a little more strict with their children and find out what they are up to. Unfortunately, when you have 12 year olds running around killing people with their adult lovers (link) something needs to be done ASAP.

So many creepy freaks in our society today.

[mcqueen625]

Does this paragraph suggests that there should be no absolute age of consent? That this is a subtle way of saying let's abolish the age of consent law?

I read the article. It's not calling for an abolishment of an age of consent law. It talks about how such a law should be examined in the context of societal differences between sexual orientations.

I fail to see why EGALE has any problem with reaising the age of consent from 14 years to sixteen years. This change is meant to stop adults 19 year olds from taking advantage of a 14 or 15 year old child. I don't see what any person 19 years plus would find sexually attractive about a 14 or 15 year old child. Yes some may in fact look rather mature physically, but I am willing to bet that if you talk to most 14 and 15 years old, you will rather quickly discover that they are not savvy individuals nor are they mentally capable nor ready to make a decision that could chage their lives forever, IE: STD's AIDS/HIV, or pregnancy. I am sick to death of walking through the mall in the middle of the day and seeing very young girls pushing a baby stroller, and usually they are not walking alone, thery are usually in the company of other very young mothers pushing their own strollers. Sine they are walking around in the middle of the day it means that they have already made the terrible decision to drop out of school. What kind of life are they going to provide to those children when they are not capable themselves to get or hold a decent job. Most are setting that child up for a roller-coaster ride on the welfare system.

If EGALE doe object to raising the age of concent, I would have to question just what motivates that mindset. Do they even want to give the impression that they would like to option to explore the vulnerability of a child?

[betsy]

I am concerned with the LGBT youths that EGALE said are confused or troubled...and being "counselled."

These are minors. That they are already troubled and confused make them much more vulnerable and easily manipulated, seduced or coerced.

[betsy]

This one is brought up too for those interested.

Ooops.

This one was brought up because of the recent interview in the

news that Pedophilia - like same-sex - should be accepted as a sexual orientation.

Edited August 7, 2011 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

This one was brought up because of the recent interview in the

news that Pedophilia - like same-sex - should be accepted as a sexual orientation.

The recent interview? Cite or STFU!

[betsy]

The recent interview? Cite or STFU!

It was in a news channel sometime thsi past week, just a short clip. I didn't even get who the guy was....but it seemed he was making enough waves to have been given the time on air.

It struck me because it reminded me of what I've said before....about opening a can of worms.

Edited August 7, 2011 by betsy

[Oleg Bach]

Usually any adult who even so much as remotely considers the lowering the age of consent - under any premise - Is a vacarious jerks who is titilated by the thought of very young people having sex..they boarder on being perverts. Firstly - Parents own their kids untill they are grown up and secure enough to survive - The state has no right to grant rights or wrongs to the offspiring of others...If I instruct my daughter not to have sex because she is to young ---I don`t need some governmental jerk who is overly interested in the sex lives of young people - over riding my familiar authority.

[Guest American Woman]

betsy, on 07 August 2011 - 07:20 AM, said: This one was brought up because of the recent interview in the

news that Pedophilia - like same-sex - should be accepted as a sexual orientation.

The recent interview? Cite or STFU!

Perhaps it was in connection with this?

.... what really shocked me was the Universite de Montreal professor, Dr. Hubert Van Gijseghem, who showed up to tell MPs pedophilia was a sexual orientation just like heterosexuality or homosexuality.

[BubberMiley]

Good job again using the google machine, AW!

Hubert's wrong. Nobody's defending Hubert.

Nothing left to say.

Oh well.

[betsy]

Perhaps it was in connection with this?

.... what really shocked me was the Universite de Montreal professor, Dr. Hubert Van Gijseghem, who showed up to tell MPs pedophilia was a sexual orientation just like heterosexuality or homosexuality.

Most probably is....except that I saw the guy being interviewed or answering to the press in the news. It might've been on CTV.

[charter.rights]

Most probably is....except that I saw the guy being interviewed or answering to the press in the news. It might've been on CTV.

So what.

One guys expressing his opinion - no matter how vile - is not cause for censorship.

If you are offended by threads like this then take your offensive attitude home with you and cry in your own cornflakes.

[Oleg Bach]

Yah - an "orientation" is it...If I were a young father with kids..seeing mine are grown - and someone expressed the view that certain people could molest and ruin my children...I would take matters into my own hands and amputate..and then we could call the casterated jerks another

"orientation".

[Guest American Woman]

Most probably is....except that I saw the guy being interviewed or answering to the press in the news. It might've been on CTV.

It seems he's saying pedophilia is an "orientation" in that it's a sexual attraction that people are born with. He's saying it's not a mental illness any more than homosexuality is - homosexuality used to be defined as a mental illness, too, and it's now accepted as a sexual orientation - deserving of equality. He sees pedophilia as a sexual orientation in the same way homosexuality is - not to say he's advocating legalizing it. I haven't seen any evidence of that.

[Scotty]

Bill C54

I had a look at the proposed bill. I find it somewhat disturbing, to be honest. I generally support minimum sentences mainly in the case of violent crime. The wide array of sex crimes against underage persons, though, has me doubtful about the wisdom of minimum sentences because so much of it is open to interpretation as to the motivation of the perpetrator and the consent of the victim.

At the same time as our culture massively sexualizes teenagers, in popular culture, in fashion, in music, the politicians continue to make it more and more illegal to so much as glance in the direction of a teenager!

I note in the bill that the minimum sentence for 'accessing child pornography' is to be six months in prison. Do we really want to take an otherwise law-abiding person and put them in prison for six months because they went to a web site and saw a picture of a naked sixteen year old? I mean, given it's perfectly legal to actually have sex with that sixteen year old, does this make sense??

I note a minimum sentence for incest with a person 16 or under is to be 5 years in prison. Now at first glance you'd say a father who abuses his underage child OUGHT to go away for a long period of time. But let's remember that the greatest amount of incest which is committed is between siblings and is often consensual. Under Canadian law, incest is defined as having a sexual relationship with a sibling (including half-sibling), child/parent or grandchild/grandparent. So if an 18 year old has consensual sex with his 16 year old half sister, that is incest under the law. Do we really want to lock him up for 5 years?

Another law is sexual assault against a person under 16. I'm certainly in favour of heavy, heavy penalties for rape, but let's remember that sexual assault can be everything from rape to grabbing a girl's butt. Now while I'd say it's wrong to grab a 15 year old's ass, regardless of what bikini she's wearing, I don't think a minimum 1 year sentence should be imposed for those doing it. I don't think some drunk who grabs an ass needs to be locked up for a year because the ass in question was under 16.

These minimums, given the nature of the crimes strike me as an invitation to horrible injustices in some cases. Especially given that none of our laws regard it as a defense that they thought the person was of age, or that the person looked of age, or that the person claimed they were of age.