Should Canada Recognize Hamas

[scribblet]

Arab groups and Israel are exerting strong pressure over a promise made that Canada would provide $12 million it has pledged in economic and political aid following the election. However, at the time of the promise Prime Minister Paul Martin said he would not tolerate a Hamas government. Hussein Amery, president of the National Council on Canada-Arab relations, said Muslims and Arabs here do not want to see Hamas in power, but Canada cannot abandon its commitments. Mr. Amery is optimistic Hamas will renounce its core tenet calling for the destruction of Israel. Alan Baker, Canada's ambassador to Israel said unless Hamas unequivocally declares it has abandoned its anti-Israeli platform, Canada cannot engage in any dialogue with it

IMHO we should not recognize Hamas or provide any foreign aid until Hamas renounces terrorism and recognizes the right of Israel to exist. This is definitely a political minefield for Harper.

Will Hamas be the new Taliban?

Strange, if anyone cruises rabble now and again to see what the radicals are saying, you will find that they are cheering the election of terrorists and condone Hamas terrorism. Very strange.

[Boru]

I agree with you. They should not be recognized by Canada, or any other government for that matter.

Not that I think it's an issue for Stephan Harper. If he were to recognize them, it would be an early bullet to the brain of his minority government.

A group cannot govern, then turn it's cheek and advocate crimes against humanity.

[crazymf]

To me if a people want a terrorist government and vote them in with a majority, then the whole fricking works advocate terrorism and that would be a great cause to turn the whole place to glass and start over.

They don't merely want peace. They want it all, with no Jews in sight. If that isn't an open call for unrestricted war, I don't know what is. If the Palestinians want some attention, they might just get it this time.

We should send 12 million dollars worth of bombs there instead.

[Hicksey]

They already are recognized -- as a bunch of Islamist terrorists itching to kill people. Their conduct and sponsorship of others' such conduct is proof of it.

[fellowtraveller]

IMHO we should not recognize Hamas or provide any foreign aid until Hamas renounces terrorism and recognizes the right of Israel to exist. This is definitely a political minefield for Harper.

I agree about Hamas, but don't see how it will seriously affect Harper. Those Canadians that support Hamas - or more accurately hate Israel - don't vote for Harper and never will.

The key in this situation is the reaction of the European community, who are huge financial backers of Fatah/Palestine. If they reverse themselvs and support Hamas, it will set back any progress in the ME badly. Israels reaction is also worth watching. A significant part of the PAs operating budget comes from customs duties collected by the Israelis and kicked back to Fatah/PA. Can't see that continuing.

[Bakunin]

I disagree, i thing its a very good thing and ppl should be realist, terrorism won't stop just like that in the next few years, however, having a hamas government will certainly slow down terrorism on the long run because IMO terorrism happend only when hope of change through politics is gone. Now they will work on organizing themself and hope will come back.

[geoffrey]

I disagree, i thing its a very good thing and ppl should be realist, terrorism won't stop just like that in the next few years, however, having a hamas government will certainly slow down terrorism on the long run because IMO terorrism happend only when hope of change through politics is gone. Now they will work on organizing themself and hope will come back.

Hamas will never be for peace. Their mission statement is to remove Israel fro the middle-East. There is no way we should support either Palestine or their government until the people there commit to peace and not to terrorism.

[Wilber]

I disagree, i thing its a very good thing and ppl should be realist, terrorism won't stop just like that in the next few years, however, having a hamas government will certainly slow down terrorism on the long run because IMO terorrism happend only when hope of change through politics is gone. Now they will work on organizing themself and hope will come back.

Hamas will never be for peace. Their mission statement is to remove Israel fro the middle-East. There is no way we should support either Palestine or their government until the people there commit to peace and not to terrorism.

I'm not so sure. Not too long ago you could have said exactly the same about the PLO and all its splinter groups. If like the PLO, Hamas comes to understand that they will never get the recognition and support they want and need to be successful, until they do renounce violence, maybe they will change. It's up to them.

[mowich]

A storm of protest blew across the world yesterday with news of the Hamas victory in the Palestinian election. Hair stood erect on my neck as I viewed the election ads presented by the Hamas party. They gave a whole new meaning to the phrase ‘attack ads’. Identity masked by black hoods, rows of men knelt side by side, machine guns poised to fire. The message clearly spoke to the terrorist arm of this party.

The Islamic Resistance Movement aka Hamas was formed to fight for the liberation of Palestine. In this instance the word should be, and is taken, literally. The followers of Hamas have dedicated their lives to freeing Palestine from the ‘Zionist’ hordes by any method, but most notably that of complete and total annihilation. According to the Hamas interpretation of Allah’s words, they are to seek out and murder every Jew on the land:

“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say ‘O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him’.”

According to the 1988 founding convenant of Hamas ‘initiative, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of Hamas. Jihad they say is the only solution; everything else is a waste of time.

Whereas the Israelis have taken steps to remove their peoples from certain areas of Palestine, Hamas is not appeased -for them it is truly all or nothing. That they will do all to achieve their goal is implicit in their charter. Allah they say commands them to do so, thus armed with religious fervor they give their lives to the fight.

Hamas has ties to Al-Qaeda, in leadership and recruitment areas. Al-Qaeda has decreed that all nations are on notice of terrorist attacks who do not support the Jihadist view. Not only these terrorist groups that are to be feared; President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran is actively seeking to develop nuclear weapons, which will be used against Israel. He has long been a Holocaust denier stating that it is a hoax and that the murder of six million Jews is a ‘fairy tale.’ Should there still be doubt concerning the threat posed, the fact that other Muslim leaders continually refuse to vociferously condemn such words and actions, must lay that to rest. Even the so-called mainstream Arab media’s are willingly abetting the terrorists by joining in the Holocaust denial and blaming ‘the sons of Zion’ for ‘manufacturing the Holocaust’ and ‘ manipulating the new world order’.

In the eyes of Hamas, Al-Qaeda and others, I am an infidel, an unbeliever, as I do not worship Allah. Therefore, I am a potential target for elimination. Personally, I am not worried that this will happen, as there is no local branch of Hamas ready to hunt me down. However, my country Canada is a Christian based nation and it is a target for this group as it does not bow down to the Allah espoused by such groups and never will.

The election of this terrorist organization should be a clear call for those of us who value life and liberty. We can no longer stand idly by as nations of the world stand threatened for once they have been conquered so shall we be. Let there be no mistake of interpretation here as long as we stand for freedom of thought, religion and ideal we are in danger. As long as we refuse to support the ideals of terrorist organizations, we are will remain enemies of the jihad and in line for future elimination.

The war has already begun though not a bomb has been dropped on Canadian soil. It began with our lax immigration policies and inept screening of candidates for entrance into Canada. It continued with the allowance of a known terrorist to treatment for wounds received fighting for a Al-Queda in Afghanistan in a Canadian hospital. It was further tested when certain Muslims strove to have Sharia law enshrined as their right for justice in Canadian law.

Let me be perfectly clear - I am not condemning Muslims as a whole, not in any way. I am condemning the militant arm of an organization called Hamas and anyone who supports them. Were I a Muslim I would do all I could to stand against them, speak out at every opportunity in support of Canadian ideals and rights. Were I a Muslim I would strive to distance myself from any taint associated with this aberration of Allah’s creed.

I believe Canadians of all religious persuasions should stand together in opposition of this election, democratic though it was. It makes a mockery of all democratic states in the world. If we do not voice loudly our abhorrence of this terrorist group, if we stay silent while they work to achieve their goals, we will be as guilty as those citizens of Germany who did nothing to stop Hitler. But this time it will not only be Jews who suffer and die, in time it will be all citizens of all nations who do not worship the Allah of Hamas.

A definite move in this direction would be to adopt the proposal by the Centre for the Study of Democracy at Queen’s University. This organization has put forward two papers which promote the inception of a new organization they would call ‘Democracy Canada.’ Specifically it would be an important plank in our foreign policy platform. Reporting directly to Parliament, not the Government, it would assume the role of teaching people of other nations the necessary steps in developing and implementing democratic processes eventually leading to democratic elections. Composed of members from all parties, itself truly non-partisan, it would become an important tool for Canada in spreading the goals and ideals of democracy around the world.

For those who share my views - and I hope that all thinking Canadians would - I urge you to write your local MP informing them of your wish that they get on board the Democracy Canada initiative. Stand up for Canada by taking positive approaches in spreading true democracy around the world.

In addition ask that they support all measures ensuring that immigration policies promote the entrance of worthy applicants while barring any chance that even one single terrorist suspect be allowed across our borders.

Terminology:

Jihad - A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.

Zi·on·ism

An organized movement of world Jewry that arose in Europe in the late 19th century with the aim of reconstituting a Jewish state in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the development and support of the state of Israel.

C/

[crazymf]

However, my country Canada is a Christian based nation and it is a target for this group as it does not bow down to the Allah espoused by such groups and never will.

????????????

[Big Blue Machine]

One thing that bothers me about Hamas is that they link co sex education to suicide rates.

[Concerned]

A storm of protest blew across the world yesterday with news of the Hamas victory in the Palestinian election. Hair stood erect on my neck as I viewed the election ads presented by the Hamas party. They gave a whole new meaning to the phrase ‘attack ads’. Identity masked by black hoods, rows of men knelt side by side, machine guns poised to fire. The message clearly spoke to the terrorist arm of this party.

The Islamic Resistance Movement aka Hamas was formed to fight for the liberation of Palestine. In this instance the word should be, and is taken, literally. The followers of Hamas have dedicated their lives to freeing Palestine from the ‘Zionist’ hordes by any method, but most notably that of complete and total annihilation. According to the Hamas interpretation of Allah’s words, they are to seek out and murder every Jew on the land:

“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say ‘O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him’.”

According to the 1988 founding convenant of Hamas ‘initiative, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of Hamas. Jihad they say is the only solution; everything else is a waste of time.

Whereas the Israelis have taken steps to remove their peoples from certain areas of Palestine, Hamas is not appeased -for them it is truly all or nothing. That they will do all to achieve their goal is implicit in their charter. Allah they say commands them to do so, thus armed with religious fervor they give their lives to the fight.

Hamas has ties to Al-Qaeda, in leadership and recruitment areas. Al-Qaeda has decreed that all nations are on notice of terrorist attacks who do not support the Jihadist view. Not only these terrorist groups that are to be feared; President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran is actively seeking to develop nuclear weapons, which will be used against Israel. He has long been a Holocaust denier stating that it is a hoax and that the murder of six million Jews is a ‘fairy tale.’ Should there still be doubt concerning the threat posed, the fact that other Muslim leaders continually refuse to vociferously condemn such words and actions, must lay that to rest. Even the so-called mainstream Arab media’s are willingly abetting the terrorists by joining in the Holocaust denial and blaming ‘the sons of Zion’ for ‘manufacturing the Holocaust’ and ‘ manipulating the new world order’.

In the eyes of Hamas, Al-Qaeda and others, I am an infidel, an unbeliever, as I do not worship Allah. Therefore, I am a potential target for elimination. Personally, I am not worried that this will happen, as there is no local branch of Hamas ready to hunt me down. However, my country Canada is a Christian based nation and it is a target for this group as it does not bow down to the Allah espoused by such groups and never will.

The election of this terrorist organization should be a clear call for those of us who value life and liberty. We can no longer stand idly by as nations of the world stand threatened for once they have been conquered so shall we be. Let there be no mistake of interpretation here as long as we stand for freedom of thought, religion and ideal we are in danger. As long as we refuse to support the ideals of terrorist organizations, we are will remain enemies of the jihad and in line for future elimination.

The war has already begun though not a bomb has been dropped on Canadian soil. It began with our lax immigration policies and inept screening of candidates for entrance into Canada. It continued with the allowance of a known terrorist to treatment for wounds received fighting for a Al-Queda in Afghanistan in a Canadian hospital. It was further tested when certain Muslims strove to have Sharia law enshrined as their right for justice in Canadian law.

Let me be perfectly clear - I am not condemning Muslims as a whole, not in any way. I am condemning the militant arm of an organization called Hamas and anyone who supports them. Were I a Muslim I would do all I could to stand against them, speak out at every opportunity in support of Canadian ideals and rights. Were I a Muslim I would strive to distance myself from any taint associated with this aberration of Allah’s creed.

I believe Canadians of all religious persuasions should stand together in opposition of this election, democratic though it was. It makes a mockery of all democratic states in the world. If we do not voice loudly our abhorrence of this terrorist group, if we stay silent while they work to achieve their goals, we will be as guilty as those citizens of Germany who did nothing to stop Hitler. But this time it will not only be Jews who suffer and die, in time it will be all citizens of all nations who do not worship the Allah of Hamas.

A definite move in this direction would be to adopt the proposal by the Centre for the Study of Democracy at Queen’s University. This organization has put forward two papers which promote the inception of a new organization they would call ‘Democracy Canada.’ Specifically it would be an important plank in our foreign policy platform. Reporting directly to Parliament, not the Government, it would assume the role of teaching people of other nations the necessary steps in developing and implementing democratic processes eventually leading to democratic elections. Composed of members from all parties, itself truly non-partisan, it would become an important tool for Canada in spreading the goals and ideals of democracy around the world.

For those who share my views - and I hope that all thinking Canadians would - I urge you to write your local MP informing them of your wish that they get on board the Democracy Canada initiative. Stand up for Canada by taking positive approaches in spreading true democracy around the world.

In addition ask that they support all measures ensuring that immigration policies promote the entrance of worthy applicants while barring any chance that even one single terrorist suspect be allowed across our borders.

Terminology:

Jihad - A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.

Zi·on·ism

An organized movement of world Jewry that arose in Europe in the late 19th century with the aim of reconstituting a Jewish state in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the development and support of the state of Israel.

C/

Great post, thanks for the first-hand education.

I'm with Crazymf though, questioning whether Canada is really a target of this group? What potential do you see here ?

Big Blue: I saw that comment in the G&M. That link is utterly ridiculous and bears no statistical logic whatsoever.

[betsy]

No, we shouldn't recognize Hamas until we are sure that they renounced terrorism. Giving foreign aid that may be used for terrorism will in a way, make us accomplice of the act...especially when we know what Hamas stands for.

[Big Blue Machine]

It's like linking how big the trade surplus is to how much a hooker costs.

[geoffrey]

It's like linking how big the trade surplus is to how much a hooker costs.

How so?

[Wilber]

One thing that bothers me about Hamas is that they link co sex education to suicide rates.

This from an organization that promotes suicide bombing? That's rich.

[tml12]

No, we shouldn't recognize Hamas until we are sure that they renounced terrorism. Giving foreign aid that may be used for terrorism will in a way, make us accomplice of the act...especially when we know what Hamas stands for.

Good post Betsy...I agree with you completely on that.

[Big Blue Machine]

It's like linking how big the trade surplus is to how much a hooker costs.

How so?

There completely unrelated but they are still linked together.

[Boru]

It's like linking how big the trade surplus is to how much a hooker costs.

How so?

There completely unrelated but they are still linked together.

How are they linked together? I don't follow.

[tml12]

It's like linking how big the trade surplus is to how much a hooker costs.

How so?

There completely unrelated but they are still linked together.

How are they linked together? I don't follow.

Neither do I...

[fixer1]

Canada has the right to aid and support countries it feels have a real need and humane policies. We do have to recognise Hamas as the elected party by the majority of Palestinian people. It would be unjust of us not to do this, as no one is claiming that any of the ballot boxes were tampered with and it was a fair election.

WE do not however, have to give aid to this government until they have proven to the world that they are not in support of terrorism, and they have no hidden agendas of destroying any of its neighbours. I find it hard to accept that such a party could ever come to power, anywhere in the world, but it has. Even I must recognise that, and so must Canada. But just as when you were growing up and learned that sometimes you have to pick your friends on the basis of their values, so must Canada do so in its choosing of who you give aid and support to. This maybe a good thing, as now we will see if certain countries walk the walk of their public talk. For Harper, I do not see this as a hard thing to handle. If certain values are not publicly denouced by the Hamas party, and lived up to, then we will not give any support or aid to that country. It seems like an easy thing to me. Since it was the Palestinian people themselves that put this party in power, I have little or no sympathy for them when the foreign aid drys up and the humanity crisis comes knocking.

[fellowtraveller]

Canada has the right to aid and support countries it feels have a real need and humane policies. We do have to recognise Hamas as the elected party by the majority of Palestinian people. It would be unjust of us not to do this, as no one is claiming that any of the ballot boxes were tampered with and it was a fair election.

WE do not however, have to give aid to this government until they have proven to the world that they are not in support of terrorism, and they have no hidden agendas of destroying any of its neighbours. I find it hard to accept that such a party could ever come to power, anywhere in the world, but it has. Even I must recognise that, and so must Canada. But just as when you were growing up and learned that sometimes you have to pick your friends on the basis of their values, so must Canada do so in its choosing of who you give aid and support to. This maybe a good thing, as now we will see if certain countries walk the walk of their public talk. For Harper, I do not see this as a hard thing to handle. If certain values are not publicly denouced by the Hamas party, and lived up to, then we will not give any support or aid to that country. It seems like an easy thing to me. Since it was the Palestinian people themselves that put this party in power, I have little or no sympathy for them when the foreign aid drys up and the humanity crisis comes knocking.

Sorry, but this represents a worldview that is on a par with Neville Chamberlains appeasement to Hitler in the 1930's.

Hamas represents, publicly and without equivocation, policies that are simply unacceptable.

There will be no waiting and hoping that they might back off "they have no hidden agendas of destroying any of its neighbours". There is nothing hidden in their agenda. They are engaged in a holy war with Israel as the target.

It is up to them to renounce all of that first, not up to us to recognize their horror and hope they change. Recognition lends legitimacy, and Hamas have long been identiffied as international pariahs and rightfully so. To recognize them will extend and deepen the strife in the ME.

I do regret that the Palestinian people may suffer, but that is their choice.

[sage]

To support the Palestinian people through in recognition of Hamas in one respect and yet not support the politics is a complete contradiction. You are either supporting a holy war on Israel or not, there is no middle ground.

If the Palestinian people want to be represented by a party dedicated to the annhilation of the jewish state, then they should be prepared to suffer the consequences of supporting a militaristic regime.

Cut off all aid, cut off all ties. Hamas is not government, it is a terrorist cell.

On another note can somone please explain to me how the Palestinian state is organized? Palestine is not a country per se. Is this not an internal governance problem with Israel (albeit created by the outside world)?