From the River to the Sea - Apologist Meaning

[BeaverFever]

13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

For all those who FORGOT or are OFFENDED by his lack of decorum, or the COLOUR OF HIS HAIR:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Accords

"The Abraham Accords are bilateral agreements on Arab–Israeli normalization signed between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain on September 15, 2020. The official signing ceremony was hosted by the Trump administration at the White House. As part of the dual agreements, both the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain recognized Israel's sovereignty, enabling the establishment of full diplomatic relations. Israel's agreement with the United Arab Emirates marked the first instance of Israel establishing diplomatic relations with an Arab country since 1994.

The Abraham Accords were signed by the Bahraini and Emirati foreign ministers and Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with American president Donald Trump as a witness.

Background: On January 28, 2020, the Trump administration unveiled its Israeli–Palestinian peace proposal in a ceremony at the White House. A component of the plan envisioned applying Israeli law to, or annexation of, roughly 30% of the West Bank.   Etc.

....

There was a chance, but now it's gone.

 

And finally the bloody Israeli-UAE war came to an end!

NOT

UAE and Bahrain have had secretly had friendly relations with Israel for a very long time  Those countries are basically just banking entities moving other peoples dirty money around they’re not inter in much else  

Meanwhile not a peep from you about Putin’s support for Hamas eh? Funny, that. 
 

The Saudi-Israeli normalization under Biden that was just about to transpire prior to Oct 7 would have been far more significant but take your pick of Republicans, Russians, Iranians and Hamas supporters who are relieved that conveniently didn’t happen because of Oct 7

Edited January 20 by BeaverFever

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Trump is an idi0t and shameless liar, his bullshit boasts are not evidence of anything. 

Oh look, more baseless insults.

You could be replaced with a turd-flinger bot.

[BeaverFever]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Oh look, more baseless insults.

You could be replaced with a turd-flinger bot.

It’s not baseless it’s based on knowledge and observation

[SpankyMcFarland]

17 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

For all those who FORGOT or are OFFENDED by his lack of decorum, or the COLOUR OF HIS HAIR:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Accords

"The Abraham Accords are bilateral agreements on Arab–Israeli normalization signed between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain on September 15, 2020. The official signing ceremony was hosted by the Trump administration at the White House. As part of the dual agreements, both the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain recognized Israel's sovereignty, enabling the establishment of full diplomatic relations. Israel's agreement with the United Arab Emirates marked the first instance of Israel establishing diplomatic relations with an Arab country since 1994.

The Abraham Accords were signed by the Bahraini and Emirati foreign ministers and Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with American president Donald Trump as a witness.

Background: On January 28, 2020, the Trump administration unveiled its Israeli–Palestinian peace proposal in a ceremony at the White House. A component of the plan envisioned applying Israeli law to, or annexation of, roughly 30% of the West Bank.   Etc.

....

There was a chance, but now it's gone.

 

An Israeli-Palestinian peace proposal negotiated with whom exactly? 

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

And finally the bloody Israeli-UAE war came to an end!

NOT

Meanwhile not a peep from you about Putin’s support for Hamas eh? Funny, that. 
 

The Saudi-Israeli normalization under Biden that was just about to transpire prior to Oct 7 would have been far more significant but take your pick of Republicans, Russians, Iranians and Hamas supporters who are relieved that conveniently didn’t happen because of Oct 7

The US and the world went to hell during Biden's administration, but his coulda woulda shoulda game is good for some consolation if CNN is to be believed, hey Beavey?

 

[OftenWrong]

10 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Trump is an idi0t and shameless liar, his bullshit boasts are not evidence of anything. 

Uh huh. Truth. fact. links hurt these days eh? No problem, you're a liberal. You can solve those problems easily...

[SpankyMcFarland]

5 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

And finally the bloody Israeli-UAE war came to an end!

NOT

UAE and Bahrain have had secretly had friendly relations with Israel for a very long time  Those countries are basically just banking entities moving other peoples dirty money around they’re not inter in much else  

Meanwhile not a peep from you about Putin’s support for Hamas eh? Funny, that. 
 

The Saudi-Israeli normalization under Biden that was just about to transpire prior to Oct 7 would have been far more significant but take your pick of Republicans, Russians, Iranians and Hamas supporters who are relieved that conveniently didn’t happen because of Oct 7

These unsavoury Arab regimes have no skin in the game. The only potential problem is explaining to their cowed populations what they are up to. 

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, BeaverFever said:

It’s not baseless it’s based on knowledge and observation

What you consider "knowledge" and what can be proven are always at odds. Why is that, collusion boy?

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

An Israeli-Palestinian peace proposal negotiated with whom exactly? 

Sorry, I don't get your question. If you have a point to make, spit it out.

I provided a link, so if you didn't know about this, can start reading.

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

An Israeli-Palestinian peace proposal negotiated with whom exactly? 

I'll excuse your simple understanding because I'm awesome...

Palestine's "strength" comes from other countries' weapons and money.

If Palestine could be isolated then Israel could maybe one day have peace, if you believe that muslims would ever actually allow it. 

Theoretically the needle moved fwd quite a bit, but imo it was all fake. Eventually Israel will burn no matter what. 

[OftenWrong]

12 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

And finally the bloody Israeli-UAE war came to an end!

NOT

Thanks to Uncle Joe, who in the meantime has started a new middle-east war with the US and UK sorties in Yemen.

Brought to you by Joe "The Bomber" Biden.

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I'll excuse your simple understanding because I'm awesome...

Palestine's "strength" comes from other countries' weapons and money.

If Palestine could be isolated then Israel could maybe one day have peace, if you believe that muslims would ever actually allow it. 

Theoretically the needle moved fwd quite a bit, but imo it was all fake. Eventually Israel will burn no matter what. 

With whom was this deal negotiated? Usually a bilateral matter is worked out out by official representatives of both entities. In this instance, it sounds like another stitch-up along Balfour Declaration lines where only party was at the talks. 

Edited January 20 by SpankyMcFarland

[BeaverFever]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Silly boy.

You can't judge people by what they do when they're not in a position of power, and Egypt and SA were powerless to do anything to/about Israel. 

If a mouse walks past a lion and doesn't kill it, do you say "Oh, what a nice mouse"? 

Look at the 600 years before the Brits ended the Ottoman rule. How were Jews treated? 

Look how Mohammed treated Jews. 

Look what happens to women everywhere in the muslim world if they don't wear the hijab (at the very least)...

Those are all examples of what happens when muslims have power over other people. It's quite the opposite of what happens when they don't. 

What a joke.
 

Hilariously you’re judging all Palestinians despite the fact they’re not in a position of power. 

Egypt and SA certainly aren’t any weaker now than in the years when they were attacking Israel and even if they were that wouldn’t force them to actively pursue friendly cooperative relations with Israel. It’s possible to just remain unfriendly and uncooperative without actually going to war invading, you can understand that, right?

Historically Muslims treated Jews better than the Christians did, that’s just a fact  And as I’ve said before it’s hilarious hypocrisy on your part that you’re outraged by anyone who dares mention the historical atrocities, oppression and slavery committed by white Christian Europeans all around the world but yet you’ll obsessively rant about what Muslims did in medieval times  

 

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

With whom was this deal negotiated? Usually a bilateral matter is worked out out by official representatives of both entities. In this instance, it sounds like another stitch-up along Balfour Declaration lines where only party is at the talks. 

The more Arab countries that are brought to sit at the same table as Israel and talk about peace and normal diplomatic relations, the better, yes? No? Oh, I see.

[BeaverFever]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Thanks to Uncle Joe, who in the meantime has started a new middle-east war with the US and UK sorties in Yemen.

Brought to you by Joe "The Bomber" Biden.

So…you’re pro Israel but opposed to US destroying Houthi rockets being fired into Israel?

[BeaverFever]

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

What you consider "knowledge" and what can be proven are always at odds. Why is that, collusion boy?

They’re only at odds with what a horribly brainwashed conspiracy cult-follower like you considers to be “proven”

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So…you’re pro Israel but opposed to US destroying Houthi rockets being fired into Israel?

"U.S. forces identified the missiles in Houthi-controlled areas of Yemen and determined that they presented an imminent threat to merchant vessels and the U.S. Navy ships in the region. U.S. forces subsequently struck and destroyed the missiles in self-defense," the U.S. Central Command said in the post on X."

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The more Arab countries that are brought to sit at the same table as Israel and talk about peace and normal diplomatic relations, the better, yes? No? Oh, I see.

If you want a deal between A and B you really have to go to them for it. This ain’t 1917 any more.

[OftenWrong]

And I am not pro-Israel specifically, though I am pro-peace.

Just now, SpankyMcFarland said:

If you want a deal between A and B you really have to go to them for it. This ain’t 1917 any more.

Such is progress in international politics. Did Trump do the wrong thing again?

What's your guy doing?

"Joe the Bomber" Biden.

You guys really don't know much, do you.

Just mind the hair.  

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

And I am not pro-Israel specifically, though I am pro-peace.

Such is progress in international politics. Did Trump do the wrong thing again?

What's your guy doing?

"Joe the Bomber" Biden.

I’m just trying to explain a very basic point. A car company CEO can’t talk to himself or the teachers’ union to sort out a labour dispute. The parties involved have to reach a deal or else it is nonsense. I know the Palestinians don’t have good leadership right now, so why not park the big matters there and focus on confidence building measures e.g. freezing settlement activity in the West Bank? Otherwise there’ll be nothing left to negotiate which is what Likud wants. 

[OftenWrong]

8 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I’m just trying to explain a very basic point. A car company CEO can’t talk to himself or the teachers’ union to sort out a labour dispute. The parties involved have to reach a deal or else it is nonsense. I know the Palestinians don’t have good leadership right now, so why not park the big matters there and focus on confidence building measures e.g. freezing settlement activity in the West Bank? Otherwise there’ll be nothing left to negotiate which is what Likud wants. 

I don't think so. It sounds to me like you were calling out right wingers as responsible for "dividing Democrats (the left)"  and that Trump and Netanyahu are buddies in collusion.

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Netanyahu has played this game of ambiguity in English similar to the nuclear weapons policy. But now the mask is off. Why not divide Democrats over Gaza and help his buddy Trump if he can? 

Now you folks have had a little history lesson, and come back with, "well it wasn't worth much anyways..." or something like that.

Still waiting to hear what good things Uncle Joe did towards ME peace. Maybe it doesn't matter?

He's white... and polite.

[WestCanMan]

46 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

With whom was this deal negotiated? Usually a bilateral matter is worked out out by official representatives of both entities. In this instance, it sounds like another stitch-up along Balfour Declaration lines where only party was at the talks. 

It had nothing to do with Palestine.

It had to do with Israel normalizing relations with Arab states that had sworn never to acknowledge them as a legitimate state.

This was the high water mark for Israel's relationships with their neighbours in the entirety of their modern existence, if you believe that the Arab signatories actually meant what they signed off on. 

[WestCanMan]

57 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

What a joke.

Hilariously you’re judging all Palestinians despite the fact they’re not in a position of power.

They were in a position of power to accept peace, and have sovereignty over their own land, which they were offered. 

Did Pakistan do the same thing that Israel did when they were in Israel's position? Hell no. They just massacre everyone when they get upset. They have committed two genocides in the multi-millions. Israel is a peace-loving nirvana by comparison to Pakistan, and Pakistan is really the only comp for Israel, anywhere in the world. 

Gaza is one of the most naturally beautiful places on the planet, but instead of turning their waterfront into luxury homes and hotels, they used the whole area as a staging ground for terrorist attacks against Israel.

Quote

Egypt and SA certainly aren’t any weaker now than in the years when they were attacking Israel and even if they were that wouldn’t force them to actively pursue friendly cooperative relations with Israel. It’s possible to just remain unfriendly and uncooperative without actually going to war invading, you can understand that, right?

I can't say for sure what Egypt and SA had in mind when they signed their deal in 2020. 

You can have faith in it if you want, I personally believe that Israel won't exist in 50 years or 200 years or whatever.

This hatred has been around for 1,400 years and it's not going to stop because of a few pieces of paper that were signed in 2020. 

Quote

Historically Muslims treated Jews better than the Christians did, that’s just a fact  And as I’ve said before it’s hilarious hypocrisy on your part that you’re outraged by anyone who dares mention the historical atrocities, oppression and slavery committed by white Christian Europeans all around the world but yet you’ll obsessively rant about what Muslims did in medieval times  

OMG your historical delusions are all out in the open now lol.

1. Stop acting like white Christians were the world's only slavers. Everyone was guilty of slavery, the only thing unique about white Cristians is that we abolished it. 

2. Religious bigotry was coded right into law for 1,000 years before the Ottoman Empire was ended. Jews weren't able to thrive in the ME, that's why they were all in Europe. Sure, that went very badly for them, and not just in Nazi Germany, but for whatever reason they seem to get the same treatment everywhere outside of the US and Canada. Hence their need for a state of their own, and their own state is surprisingly tolerant of other religions, homosexuals, etc, despite the terrifying geopolitical situation they live in.

3. I never said "just in medieval times", stupid. There was laundry list of massacres and forced exoduses of Jews from the various parts of the ME since 1800... The attacks on their communities were constant. And in between the various massacres and forced migrations, it wasn't all DEI. It was more like DIE.

• 1805, June 29 Two to five hundred Algerian Jews are massacred.^[1]
• 1811 Head of the Jewish community of Algiers David ben Joseph Coen Bakri is decapitated by the Dey Hadj Ali.
• 1815 Eight Jews are burned at the stake in Algiers.^[1]
•  1834 The 1834 looting of Safed was a month-long attack on the Jewish population of Safed by local Arab and Druze villagers. It was full of large scale looting, as well as the killing and raping of Jews and the destruction of many homes and synagogues. Before the attacks Jews made up over 50% of the population, but many of them fled to nearby cities which reduced their presence drastically.
• 1834 Jewish heroine and martyr Sol Hachuel is publicly decapitated at 17 years old in Fez, Morocco. She is executed for refusing to convert to Islam.
• Jews of Barforush are forcibly converted to Islam. When they are allowed to revert to Judaism thanks to French and British ambassadors, a Muslim mob kills 18 Jews, burning two of them alive.^[11][12]
• 1869 18 Tunisian Jews are killed in a pogrom and an Arab mob loots Jewish homes and stores, burns synagogues, on Jerba Island.
• 1875 Twenty Jews are killed by a Muslim mob in Demnat, Morocco.
• 1881 Pogrom against the Jews in Tlemcen, Algeria.^[18]
• 1892 Mulla Abdullah issues a fatwa to kill all the Jews of Hamadan if they refuse to abide by Jewish restrictions. The local Persian Jews were later ordered to become Muslims or face death.^[23]
• 1892 Two Persian Jews go out to sell merchandise and end up killed with all of their property stolen. Their relatives went out to search for the bodies and when they found them, they were killed by the same villagers. Even after many attempts to plea for their, the governor of Savojbolagh County paid them no mind.^[10]
• 1897 Synagogues and Jewish homes are pillaged in Oran.^[24]
• 1897 Synagogues are ransacked and Jews are murdered in Tripolitania.^[25]
• 1907 Over 60 Jews in the Mellah of Casablanca are killed in a pogrom by Kabyle Muslims. Many more were wounded, and a large number of women and children were carried off.^[3]
• 1910 The 1910 Shiraz blood libel was a pogrom of the Jewish quarter in Shiraz, Iran. It was sparked by accusations that the Jews had ritually murdered a Muslim girl. By the end of the pogrom, 12 Jews were killed, 50 or so were wounded, and 6,000 were robbed of all their possessions.
• 1912 The Tritl or the 1912 Fez massacre left 42 Moroccan Jews dead.
• 1917 The 1917 Jaffa deportation was a forceful expulsion and confiscation of property of 10,000 Jews from Jaffa and Tel Aviv by Ottoman authorities.
• 1920 The Jerusalem pogrom of April 1920 of old Yishuv.
• 1921 Jaffa riots in Palestine.
• 1922 The government of Yemen, under Yahya Muhammad Hamid ed-Din, re-introduced an Islamic law entitled the "orphans decree". The law dictated that if Jewish boys or girls under the age of 12 were orphaned, they were to be forcibly converted to Islam, their connections to their families and communities were to be severed, and they had to be handed over to Muslim foster families.
• 1929 The ancient Jewish community of Hebron is massacred by local Muslims over rumors that the Jews were planning to seize control of the Temple Mount.^[19]
• 1929 18–20 Jewish residents of Safed were brutally killed in the 1929 Palestine riots.
• 1934 2,000 Afghani Jews are expelled from their towns and forced to live in the wilderness.
• 1934 The 1934 Thrace pogroms were a series of violent attacks that occurred in Tekirdağ, Edirne, Kırklareli, and Çanakkale. Over 15,000 Jews had to flee from the region.
• 1934 34 Algerian Jews were killed and hundreds were injured by Muslim mobs during the 1934 Constantine pogrom. 200 Jewish stores were raided, the total property damage was estimated at over 150 million Poincare francs. It also sent a quarter of Constantine's Jewish population into poverty.^[25]
• 1936 The Bloody Day in Jaffa refers to various violent attacks on Jews in Jaffa by mobs of Muslims.
• 1938 Arab rioters rush into the Jewish Kiryat Shmuel neighborhood, killing 19 Jews, 11 of whom were children in the 1938 Tiberias massacre.

^That's^ not to say that Europe was a happy home for Jews, it was arguably worse because the massacres were wayyy bigger, but that's only because the populations were so much bigger on account of the fact that they were less welcome in the ME. 

Were the 1800s "medieval times", jackass? 1900s?

Keep in mind that it has been 1000 years since the Jews were allowed to pray at Temple Mount. 

If they're gonna exist as humans with any kind of dignity and safety, they need a homeland. The Gazans and the Palestinians in the West Bank can live as muslims in any one of 20+ sovereign muslim nations where they can discriminate against Jews as much as they want. It will be like the good ol' days. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:38 PM, WestCanMan said:

 

• 1920 The Jerusalem pogrom of April 1920 of old Yishuv.
• 1921 Jaffa riots in Palestine.
• 1922 The government of Yemen, under Yahya Muhammad Hamid ed-Din, re-introduced an Islamic law entitled the "orphans decree". The law dictated that if Jewish boys or girls under the age of 12 were orphaned, they were to be forcibly converted to Islam, their connections to their families and communities were to be severed, and they had to be handed over to Muslim foster families.
• 1929 The ancient Jewish community of Hebron is massacred by local Muslims over rumors that the Jews were planning to seize control of the Temple Mount.^[19]
• 1929 18–20 Jewish residents of Safed were brutally killed in the 1929 Palestine riots.
• 1936 The Bloody Day in Jaffa refers to various violent attacks on Jews in Jaffa by mobs of Muslims.
• 1938 Arab rioters rush into the Jewish Kiryat Shmuel neighborhood, killing 19 Jews, 11 of whom were children in the 1938 Tiberias massacre.

^That's^ not to say that Europe was a happy home for Jews, it was arguably worse because the massacres were wayyy bigger, but that's only because the populations were so much bigger on account of the fact that they were less welcome in the ME. 

Were the 1800s "medieval times", jackass? 1900s?

Keep in mind that it has been 1000 years since the Jews were allowed to pray at Temple Mount. 

If they're gonna exist as humans with any kind of dignity and safety, they need a homeland. The Gazans and the Palestinians in the West Bank can live as muslims in any one of 20+ sovereign muslim nations where they can discriminate against Jews as much as they want. It will be like the good ol' days. 

Are you an open borders type of guy? I presume you understand the potential for trouble when massive numbers of foreigners are allowed into a country with no consultation whatsoever with the people of that country? That is what happened under the British in Palestine. And lots of Arabs were killed too, obviously. 

If the British were so concerned with the plight of European Jews, why didn’t they take them in Britain, a country far better able to absorb such numbers than Palestine? You think Russian Jews wanted to make ‘the desert bloom’, as the nonsense went, over living in London? The truth is that Palestine became a refuge of last resort because no Western country or empire would take anywhere near enough of them. 

Edited January 22 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 1/20/2024 at 3:34 PM, WestCanMan said:

Oh look, more baseless insults.

You could be replaced with a turd-flinger bot.

The accusation that Trump is a liar is baseless? What sort of people am I corresponding with here?