ABACUS: Poilievre’s Conservatives lead by 13 over Liberals. A deep dive on why more than half of Canadians have a negative impression of Justin Trudeau

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. I know, because I support conservatives and you want to cover the damage being done by Liberals.

2. What scale. The economy? Environment, Foreign affairs? All failures of this government.

3. Did Chretien and Harper have to do their job? Yes. Or be dismissed at the next election. That's how it works, not, just shrug and say "oh well anyway..."

4. I see no reason to pick through that list.

5. What you wrote is exactly what I expected. There is nothing in that list that is atypical of issues for government to work on.

6.  Trudeau has not worked on those items in your list to the point of being successful, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about him as we are.

7. When I say Poilievre is a career politician with years of working experience compared to Trudeau, that is a fact not opinion. My "opinion" as you call it doesn't need to be backed by links. It is simple common sense, backed by the facts in reality we have today.

8. You wish Poilievre good luck but say you are not confident he can fix the issues.  

9. Sounds like you are excusing Trudeau by saying it's not his fault, because no one can fix these brand-new major challenges.

1. Wow... you have to overthink pretty hard to connect my concerns with world affairs with me making excuses for Trudeau.  I don't even understand how that works.  Poilievre succeeding would make him look way better, under my perspective on the world right now.

2. Oh OF COURSE, because the economy environment and world affairs are running so ideally outside Canada.

3. Chretien had an easier job than Harper by far and Harper had an easier job than Trudeau.  I will say Harper would have done better if he had been dealt Trudeau's hand though, IMO.

4.  Oh OF COURSE because you asked me a question and I answered it completely, WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER TO READ THE RESPONSE ?

5. Oh OF COURSE remember the pandemic under Chretien and the collapse of global trade under Harper as well as the exploding wars ?  You are a very lucky poster to wave your hands and dismiss my examples, which you claim to have not read btw.

6. No of course not.  I said so, I think.

7.  Working experience as an MP I suppose...  Trudeau was 37 when first elected to Parliament as he worked before then.  Poilievre much younger.

8. As I would if anyone were in the job.

9. I already said Trudeau cocked up at least one thing.  I'm glad to list his flaws, and ditching the main policies he pushed for on Climate make him look terrible among his core voters for one.  He seems to want to be loved, which is normal for a politician, but his behaviour as his star falls is shockingly not based in reality.

I don't know what I have to tell you to explain I'm not a Trudeau fan.  You now think my assessment of our global problems is evidence that I secretly love him.  Ok then.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Michael Hardner

[OftenWrong]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't know what I have to tell you to explain I'm not a Trudeau fan.

Just stop trying to defend the indefensible.

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Just stop trying to defend the indefensible.

"the indefensible" being that the world is especially screwed up right now...

And you object to my assertion because it's a Pythagorean Theorem way of defending Justin Trudeau somehow...

Ahem.  Ok.

?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Adding a massive amount to the debt is required sometimes.  Conservatives do it too.

Nobody has EVER done that. That was literally more than EVERY SINGLE PRIME MINISISTER before him borrowed.  That is unique in the history of canada as far as levels of borrowing go, even his dad didn't do that.

ANd most of it was not related to covid.

so no - nobody has ever done this before. This is new.

2 - JT ruined many many trade relations - china, india, the us, europe, saudi arabia -  and he screwed up tradew with both trump AND biden.  Sooooo - doesnt' matter if trump is around or not. All PP has to do is make one trade relationship work and he's further ahead.

3- no you didn't.  You just tried to minimize it and blow it off.  JT's strategy was to divide people, PP's strategy will be to unite people as harper did successfully.

4 - Nobody gives a crap who PP gets his pic taken with.  They will care about results. They are in desperate straits after trudeau's time in office.

5 - You've been wrong before if that's what you mean.  Cutting spending will make a massive difference.  And i suspect we'll be well into and almost out of the recession by the time PP comes to power.  There's SO much room to cut without even touching basic services. We don't need the constant spending on arrivecan apps, contractors who are 'friends' of the liberals, the CBC, etc.   The scotiabank noted that most of our interest and inflation issues vanish if spending goes down even three percent.

6 -  people have expained it to you plenty.  You just choose not to understand or dismiss it as it doesn't feed your narrative. He can leave the provinces alone - that goes a long way to easing tensions. He can NOT call people that disagree with him names, or turn every issue into an 'us vs them' discussion. He can look for things that bring peple together that they agree on and focus on that instead of trying to pass laws to divide people.  And as far as the economy goes - slow down immiration for 3 years, work with the provinces to get more homes built (rather than trudeau's divisive attack on the provinces we're seeing right now),  And much more as well

7 - western alienation was quiet - the quebec separatists were badly reduced, there were no muslims in the streets demanding the genocide of jews, there were no parents marches over lgbq issues, Familes were not being ripped apart over issues like mandatory vaccinations -  do you need more? there's more.

You spend all of your time here defending trudeau and his decisions. You pretend to be conservative every now and then and virtually everyone here laughs at the idea ,

 

Lets be clear - you're a justin trudeau appologist, a left wing supporter, and relatively dishonest about how you go about that.

For example - your claim that trudeaus over spending is normal and lots of prime ministers do it.  What the hell is wrong with you? That is so OBVIOUSLY untrue it's painful to watch you attempt to defend him.

 

Lets make this simple for you.  Trudeau and the liberals have driven canada into a hole that is worse than EVER before in our history.  Period.  Both economically and in terms of unity.

PP will radically change that. And people are realising that which is why his approval is rocketing up, not just justin's nose diving. This is not hard to do - although fixing all the problems justin has left behind will take decades he can make a good start and things will slowly get better.

And being dishonest about it won't change that. Meanwhile bc and alberta will gain more seats, and it's going to get harder and harder for the libs to win a majority without the west, which they won't win anytime soon

 

 

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I strongly disagree with your opinion.  Did Chretien or Harper have to deal with anything of this scale ?  I don't see it.
 

Sure they did. Well - harper did anyway. And the vast vast majority of justin's spending was unrelated to covid.

But lets not forget justin went 100 billion in the hole with a STRONG economy that he inherited long before covid came along.  And he was warned - the way he was spending would lead to disaster if there was any kind of economic downturn.  And his spending since has been horrific.

SO you can disagree being a trudeau fanboy as you are - but the facts are not in your favour.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

While the poll shows Conservatives over Liberals, 61% are not in favour of conservatives.

BTW -

 

That poll you're referring to says 50 percent of people will consider voting conservative.

So when you say that 61 percent are not in favour - that's just wrong.

In fact 39 percent have decided absolutely - up to 50 percent is thinking about it,

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. Nobody has EVER done that. That was literally more than EVERY SINGLE PRIME MINISISTER before him borrowed. 

2  All PP has to do is make one trade relationship work and he's further ahead.

3 You just tried to minimize it and blow it off. 

4 JT's strategy was to divide people, PP's strategy will be to unite people as harper did successfully.

5.  Cutting spending will make a massive difference. 

6. And i suspect we'll be well into and almost out of the recession by the time PP comes to power. 

7. Scotiabank noted that most of our interest and inflation issues vanish if spending goes down even three percent.

8. ... there were no muslims in the streets demanding the genocide of jews, there were no parents marches over lgbq issues.   

9. You spend all of your time here defending trudeau and his decisions.  

1. Context though - the pandemic threw millions out of work.  And Conservatives did do record deficits in response to crises as they needed to: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/deficit-a-record-50b-as-economy-weakens/article_0d815a94-186b-5d64-810f-c41655a311e1.html

2. As I said, I hope he can do it.

3. I don't know what this is referring to.

4. Already addressed.  I feel like assessments of unity are too subjective and time-based to assess.

5. As I said let's hope so.

6. Again - let's hope so and like so many before them, PP will get credit for this part without deserving it.

7. Noted.

8. I will be very glad if the SOGI Convoy protests shut up because they don't want to bother Poilievre, however he will have 0% to do with that, or peace/war in Israel.  

9. No, I don't.  I point out sh1tty criticism like he's responsible for SOGI curriculum in schools because it's r3tarded to say that, and reflects a clueless perception of how education works.  Again, I wish Poilievre well and if he's as good a politician as he seems to be he'll listen to the heavy LGBTQ contingent in his inner circle and say nothing about it.

All the best...
 

[ExFlyer]

47 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

BTW -

 

That poll you're referring to says 50 percent of people will consider voting conservative.

So when you say that 61 percent are not in favour - that's just wrong.

In fact 39 percent have decided absolutely - up to 50 percent is thinking about it,

It is your poll post.

The numbers for conservatives is 39% and the rest are not for conservatives.

If a poll (or post) requires a codicil, maybe it is not worth much in the first pace??:)

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by ExFlyer

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"the indefensible" being that the world is especially screwed up right now...

And you object to my assertion because it's a Pythagorean Theorem way of defending Justin Trudeau somehow...

Ahem.  Ok.

?

Because you say you're not a liberal or Trudeau supporter. Yet here you are, stammering away why we should excuse JT after all the damage he's done to our country.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. Context though - the pandemic threw millions out of work. 

The revenue losses were not much worse.  And nobody - NOBODY - spent anywhere remotely even a little bit close to what he spent.

THe conservatives borrowed less in office than he did during his years BEFORE covid.  And most of his borrowing wasn't covid related.

2 - he will.

3- yes you do. Dishonestly claiming you can't read what was written just a few posts ago is silly. What you really mean is you don't want to address it so you'll pretend not to understand.

4 - not addressed.  it is demonstrably true and simply blowing it off without any reason given just suggests you know i'm right and don't want to deal with it.

5 - no hope required -the banks have weighed in on this and explained why. It's not hard to cut spending. Cna't do massive cuts day one but you can certainly make significant cuts.

6 - He will deserve it entirely. Just because the recession is ending doesn't mean the recovery is going to go well and if it does that's good management.

8 - he can have much to do with demonstrations in canada.  When the leader of the country speaks up and makes an effort at unity, it makes a difference. Trudeau only tries to divide.  Of course - i think we all HOPE the war is over long before the next election but there will be some crisis somewhere, and good leadership is huge when it comes to keeping people level headed.  Look at the queen in ww2.

 9- you absolutely do.  "oh his doubling of the debt is normal" etc etc.

Bud i doubt there's a single person anywhere on this board who truly believes you're a conservative and that you dislike the libs at all -  stop with the bullshit. You're just embarrassing yourself and chipping away at what limited credibility you have left.

I get why people dont' want to admit to being a justin supporter but when you defend him every chance as you did here it's rather obvious.  you can't start every reply with 'from the river to the sea' and then claim you're not pro Palestinian  

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

It is your poll post.

The numbers for conservatives is 39% and the rest are not for conservatives.

If a poll (or post) requires a codicil, maybe it is not worth much in the first pace??:)

 

 

Your inability to read or comprehend is not the pollster's fault.

it does NOT say "the rest are not for the conservatives'.   It says "Voting intention".  Right now - who do you intend to vote for.

I then posted the replies to the question - "WHO WOULD YOU CONSIDER VOTING FOR" - and the cpc is 50 percent.

I know you're smart enough to get that a) just because you have a preference today doesn't mean you are 'against' everyone else, and b)  people can be willing to change their minds and consider their options - so you can say you'd vote liberal today but you'd consider voting CPC so that might change.

Yesh.  You're way too smart not to have gotten that, you're just being a dink.

[ExFlyer]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Your inability to read or comprehend is not the pollster's fault.

it does NOT say "the rest are not for the conservatives'.   It says "Voting intention".  Right now - who do you intend to vote for.

I then posted the replies to the question - "WHO WOULD YOU CONSIDER VOTING FOR" - and the cpc is 50 percent.

I know you're smart enough to get that a) just because you have a preference today doesn't mean you are 'against' everyone else, and b)  people can be willing to change their minds and consider their options - so you can say you'd vote liberal today but you'd consider voting CPC so that might change.

Yesh.  You're way too smart not to have gotten that, you're just being a dink.

Please don't start. I will not play.

When you post a poll and that poll has a codicil to explain the poll, something does not smell right LOL

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup, I can do the math.

But, not all are for PP either. Only 39%

But as Michael Hardner said "39% is a lot, enough for a majority in our system."

You are right, the poll does not ask "who is not in favour" of PP, but, it does demonstrate it just by publishing the numbers that most do not. More people in Canada are not for PP than are.

the fact that they aren't people's first pick does not mean they aren't happy with them.

As i posted 50 percent would consider voting cpc

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Because you say you're not a liberal or Trudeau supporter.
2. Yet here you are, stammering away why we should excuse JT after all the damage he's done to our country.

1. I'm not.  If I give a compliment to Trudeau now and again it doesn't make me a 'supporter'.
2. I didn't say that even a little...

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Please don't start. I will not play.

When you post a poll and that poll has a codicil to explain the poll, something does not smell right LOL

"waaaaah - i realize i was wrong please don't point it out to everyone".  - What the hell is the matter with you?

The poll is very clear - HALF OF CANADA is considering voting cpc, 39 percent has already firmly decided

There's no explination necessary - that's black and white.

So basically you're mad that the right wing party has the support of about hafl the people and you're pretending you're just too stupid to understand it,

Is there NO such thing as an honest leftie anymore? Like - NONE of you? At all?

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm not.  If I give a compliment to Trudeau now and again it doesn't make me a 'supporter'.
2. I didn't say that even a little...

You are a supporter - you don't "give a compliment now and then", you defend him regularly even when it's indefensible.

And you are defending him right now - you say that a LOT.

Like i said - nobody buys your story, it's clearly bullcrap.

[OftenWrong]

30 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm not.  If I give a compliment to Trudeau now and again it doesn't make me a 'supporter'.
2. I didn't say that even a little...

Ok then.   

[ExFlyer]

45 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

"waaaaah - i realize i was wrong please don't point it out to everyone".  - What the hell is the matter with you?

The poll is very clear - HALF OF CANADA is considering voting cpc, 39 percent has already firmly decided

There's no explination necessary - that's black and white.

So basically you're mad that the right wing party has the support of about hafl the people and you're pretending you're just too stupid to understand it,

Is there NO such thing as an honest leftie anymore? Like - NONE of you? At all?

You are a supporter - you don't "give a compliment now and then", you defend him regularly even when it's indefensible.

And you are defending him right now - you say that a LOT.

Like i said - nobody buys your story, it's clearly bullcrap.

There ya go again. Can't take a varying opinion of your post. So be it. Soon as another view to yours is presented, you go into full shit slinging mode....again.

May not have but yet, you posted another poll that explains the first.

Yup, back to same old same old from you.

Edited November 9, 2023 by ExFlyer

[CITIZEN_2015]

Unfortunately we have to take another 2 years of Trudeau because of NDP-Liberal pack which Liberals do everything they can to hold as they know if election is held now they will be eliminated.

Edited November 9, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

There ya go again. Can't take a varying opinion of your post.

It's not an opinion. You're misstating simple facts.  The sun rises in the east in canada - not an opinion. Water makes things wet - not an opinion.  The sun is hot - NOT an opinion.

And you know this.

The polls are clear - 50 percent will consider voting cpc, 39 percent intend to already.

You claim somehow this means that 61 percent disapprove of the cpc. That is blatantly falsely representing what was said. And despite your error being pointed out and obvious you double down.

If you want to have an OPINION that's fine - but if you want to simply ignore basic facts i can't help you. 

 

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

the fact that they aren't people's first pick does not mean they aren't happy with them.

As i posted 50 percent would consider voting cpc

Didn't say that. I saud "While the poll shows Conservatives over Liberals, 61% are not in favour of conservatives. "

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

"waaaaah - i realize i was wrong please don't point it out to everyone".  - What the hell is the matter with you?

The poll is very clear - HALF OF CANADA is considering voting cpc, 39 percent has already firmly decided

There's no explination necessary - that's black and white.

So basically you're mad that the right wing party has the support of about hafl the people and you're pretending you're just too stupid to understand it,

Is there NO such thing as an honest leftie anymore? Like - NONE of you? At all?

You are a supporter - you don't "give a compliment now and then", you defend him regularly even when it's indefensible.

And you are defending him right now - you say that a LOT.

Like i said - nobody buys your story, it's clearly bullcrap.

The fact that your poll required a second poll to explain the first, makes me question booth polls.

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It's not an opinion. You're misstating simple facts.  The sun rises in the east in canada - not an opinion. Water makes things wet - not an opinion.  The sun is hot - NOT an opinion.

And you know this.

The polls are clear - 50 percent will consider voting cpc, 39 percent intend to already.

You claim somehow this means that 61 percent disapprove of the cpc. That is blatantly falsely representing what was said. And despite your error being pointed out and obvious you double down.

If you want to have an OPINION that's fine - but if you want to simply ignore basic facts i can't help you. 

 

I am not mssing facts.

A poll 2 years away form elections is not even worth the coloured lines in it.  The fact another poll had to added to explain the first one makes me question the validity of both.

Well, 61% said they would not vote conservative...that is in your post, add up the totals for the other parties and it comes up to 61%.

Yes, I have an opinion, as you do. Does not make mine any worse or better than yours. You have equally as might right to be wrong. Sometimes you need the keep your political leaning behind the zipper in your pants

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Didn't say that. I saud "While the poll shows Conservatives over Liberals, 61% are not in favour of conservatives. "

And it doesn't.  At all.  Why are you like this? The poll says NOTHING of the kind and in fact their report notes that's not the case.  50 percent of people are considering voting cpc.

Quote

The fact that your poll required a second poll to explain the first, makes me question booth polls.

So if a poll includes more than one question, it's invalid in your mind?   IF they ask "who would you likely vote for today" AND they ask "Would you consider another party', the according to the rules of statistics the first question MUST be invalid.

Sign.  You go through these weird periods where you're just dumb as F*ck.  Sorry kid - you're too stupid for this conversation right now.  Try again when the lithium kicks in,

The poll is clear. 39 percent will vote conservative now, 50 percent are either decided or considering voting conservative .  HALF the population approves of the cpc enough to vote for them.

[ExFlyer]

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And it doesn't.  At all.  Why are you like this? The poll says NOTHING of the kind and in fact their report notes that's not the case.  50 percent of people are considering voting cpc.

So if a poll includes more than one question, it's invalid in your mind?   IF they ask "who would you likely vote for today" AND they ask "Would you consider another party', the according to the rules of statistics the first question MUST be invalid.

Sign.  You go through these weird periods where you're just dumb as F*ck.  Sorry kid - you're too stupid for this conversation right now.  Try again when the lithium kicks in,

The poll is clear. 39 percent will vote conservative now, 50 percent are either decided or considering voting conservative .  HALF the population approves of the cpc enough to vote for them.

A mid term poll and a explanation of that poll is still a mid term rectal pluck, no matter how hard you try an defend it LOLK

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

A mid term poll and a explanation of that poll is still a mid term rectal pluck, no matter how hard you try an defend it LOLK

Boy - the fact justin is losing has got you totally triggered hasn't it?   You're absolutely in a frenzy over it.  Demanding polls say things they don't, demanding if a poll asks more than one question then it's totally suspect, and now trying to desperately plead that polls don't even matter at all LOL 

Justin's going to be gone big guy - make peace with it and stop freaking out

and of course mid term polls matter a great deal, that's why political parties pay for them to be done regularly.  A single poll doesn't always mean much but when you get mutlipe companies over time the patterns are clear, and the results of this poll mirror other pollsters and have been reflected in numerous polls over time.

 

39 percent of people who have already decided  already intend to vote cpc, 50 percent of ALL people will consider it.  His approval raitings are high and continue to climb.  The libs are crashing.

Sucks to be you or the rest of the liberal supporters right now.

 

[ExFlyer]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Boy - the fact justin is losing has got you totally triggered hasn't it?   You're absolutely in a frenzy over it.  Demanding polls say things they don't, demanding if a poll asks more than one question then it's totally suspect, and now trying to desperately plead that polls don't even matter at all LOL 

Justin's going to be gone big guy - make peace with it and stop freaking out

and of course mid term polls matter a great deal, that's why political parties pay for them to be done regularly.  A single poll doesn't always mean much but when you get mutlipe companies over time the patterns are clear, and the results of this poll mirror other pollsters and have been reflected in numerous polls over time.

 

39 percent of people who have already decided  already intend to vote cpc, 50 percent of ALL people will consider it.  His approval raitings are high and continue to climb.  The libs are crashing.

Sucks to be you or the rest of the liberal supporters right now.

 

I could not care less who is winning or losing when it does not matter.

Make peace with what??/A useless poll meaning nothing? Wait till next year and it may have some weight but now, it is weightless and useless except to give you erections LOL

Calling names when it does not suit you or agree with your every word "has got you totally triggered hasn't it? " LOL

Edited November 9, 2023 by ExFlyer