Canadian Muslims to stage 'Million Person March' to protest against Trudeau Liberal's push for LGBTQ indoctrination in schools

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. They have their children on the line.  People might shut up for their job..... but F*ck around with their kids and find out.

2. It gets worse from here.  The intolerance of the left is creating a pressure that's going to pop.

1. And yet there's no groundswell of opposition to the curriculum.  In Ontario the ministry of education is changing nothing on this file.

All you get is articles in TNC about a handful of zealots getting kicked out of parent council meetings...

2. I doubt that.  I thought Muslims were the big threat ten years ago... now you're working with them...

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The main contender has a culture war at the center of his camps, unlike Trudeau.

Care to elaborate? If you mean bring back the culture of old Canada, that leader in demonstrating a tolerant and just society to the world, as one politician phrased it, that would be alright and not culture war.

Canada has dishonorable leadership, meaning our politicians cannot be called upon to mediate in international disputes. This is Trudeau's fault.

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

But parents don't have their jobs on the line.  They're accepting of tolerance being taught in schools, overwhelmingly.

All attempts to frame this as some kind of unfair situation are false, and people are starting to recognize the constant hyperbole and exaggeration from the anti -tolerance league.

No they don’t support it.  That’s the whole point.  There’s no mandate for this, or rather, parents are never directly asked. If parents were given the question on a ballot, and not in a deceitful way, I’m quite certain that they wouldn’t support it except in the radical left ridings such as the NDP parts of Toronto, but even if they did, one group’s views are being elevated at the exclusion of others’ without even a constitutional justification.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

They are not entitled to expect anyone else to live according to their faith. 

They ARE entitled to not have someone else's beliefs or moral faiths shoved down their throats or the throats of their kids.  And that's where schools overstepped.

Again - look around you.  Organized anit-gay marches.  Children and kids boycotting their schools over gay issues. Gay violence on the rise.  Sentiment about gays starting to turn.  Bud lite has had gay people and trans in their adverts for years - now it's cost them a billion dollars in revenues to have one trans drink a beer with her picture on it.

I've had very dear gay friends  (married) and agressively lobbied for an end to the whole 'gay' agenda when the cpc was formed, and without giving away my identity it was a big deal for me and we fought hard and got that dropped.  The deal was  "Ignore what you don't like about them (who they sleep with) and they'll ignore what they don't like about you (religion) and we'll all agree we like pizza so we'll order pizza.

And even -I- am getting entirely sick of their shit. I actually feel a little stabbed in the back these days knowing i went in front of conservatives in western Canada and spoke for THEIR rights - and now they want to step on the rights of others,  ANd i'm not even religious.

If i'm getting to that point - a LOT of people are getting to that point, And a lot more will be past it.

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Let's not fail to point out that the same people who were ringing the alarms about Muslim immigration and lack of assimilation are glad to have allies in this new battle... In which they are now ringing alarm bells about drag queens taking over.

My hope is that the normal people are going to start to see their paranoia for what it is.

You do realize that in your posts for at least two years now, in substance you sound radical left?

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Care to elaborate? 

1. Making wokeness a political issue is boring and pointless.  Potentially dangerous too.

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

You do realize that in your posts for at least two years now, in substance you sound radical left?

Only to people who have no idea what conservative values are.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well you're wrong,,  Want proof? Look around you.  That WAS how it was taught - and now instead of the acceptance we DID have hatred is on the rise and growing worse.  Sorry - doesn't work. It is almost impossible to demand tolerance of one thing without being intolerant of something else, and those people will fight back sooner or later.

THe closest you can come is to try to get people to be respectful AND tolerant of those who are different than they are.  Which means, don't bug them and they don't bug you when it comes to that specific issue (religion, politics, sex, whatever).  We have NONE of that right now, Everyone is tribal and hates everyone else.

Well first off no it doesn't.  Let them be intolerant.  If you demand people accept gays then you have to be willing to accept those who don't like gays. That's what "TOLERANCE" is, 

The best you can do is demand that they don't DO anything intolerant. That's where respect for differences comes in. And they need to respect YOUR differences.

But you can't "overcome" them.  A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still, and trying to repress an idea has a funny way of making it grow.

And second  -  the number of intolerant and disrespectful people is growing .  On both sides. Quickly. And it's about to erupt. And that is after we tried it your way.

It's an epic fail.  We simply can't win trying to teach that way.

 

Well, you're wrong.  I'm not denying that when I look around me I see nastiness of the first order.  Most of it comes from those intolerant of lifestyles they don't understand or believe their God tells them are wrong, but there is definitely some nastiness from the other side too.

And I would never try and insist someone change their views.  A person has a right to their views, regardless of all else.  I also support a person's right to express those views.

They have no right to have those views taken seriously.  They have no right to impose those views on others, where those views do not jibe with the law.

Schools should teach that homosexual relationships are just as valid as heterosexual relationships, because they are.

They should keep teaching it.  They should not beat anyone who disagrees, repress their right to speak or kick them out of the school as you suggested they might in your last post.  They should just keep teaching it.

 

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Making wokeness a political issue is boring and pointless.  Potentially dangerous too.

It’s completely the opposite of what you say.  

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. No they don’t support it.   

1. Canadian polls show support for LGBTQ rights. 

They don't have referenda on what values to teach in the classroom, as the curriculum is developed with a public sphere of parents, government leaders and experts.  I don't see how a vote would even work.

Furthermore when you read discussion on the topic, people against tolerance continually misrepresent the issues and drive mainstream voters away from their cause.

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s completely the opposite of what you say.  

Your opinion.  Like I say, you will get your chance to speak... and you already do.

I would be surprised if there was substantive changes from the current campaign.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

 

They have no right to have those views taken seriously.  They have no right to impose those views on others, where those views do not jibe with the law.

Schools should teach that homosexual relationships are just as valid as heterosexual relationships, because they are.

 

 

Why?  Maybe the laws need to be changed because they got it wrong. 

[Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Canadian polls show support for LGBTQ rights. 

They don't have referenda on what values to teach in the classroom, as the curriculum is developed with a public sphere of parents, government leaders and experts.  I don't see how a vote would even work.

Furthermore when you read discussion on the topic, people against tolerance continually misrepresent the issues and drive mainstream voters away from their cause.

Your opinion.  Like I say, you will get your chance to speak... and you already do.

I would be surprised if there was substantive changes from the current campaign.

Your explanation demonstrates the problem. The public did NOT sign up for what’s being pushed by DEI activists. Many — if not most — parents do NOT want this for their kids.  The fact that you make these assumptions says a lot about the ignorance among our leaders about what people actually think and want.  It explains why the protests will increase and the culture war is accelerating. Parents won’t accept policies that indoctrinate their kids to live according to values that they oppose and see as unhealthy and immoral.  Of course!

Edited August 7, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They ARE entitled to not have someone else's beliefs or moral faiths shoved down their throats or the throats of their kids.  And that's where schools overstepped.

Again - look around you.  Organized anit-gay marches.  Children and kids boycotting their schools over gay issues. Gay violence on the rise.  Sentiment about gays starting to turn.  Bud lite has had gay people and trans in their adverts for years - now it's cost them a billion dollars in revenues to have one trans drink a beer with her picture on it.

I've had very dear gay friends  (married) and agressively lobbied for an end to the whole 'gay' agenda when the cpc was formed, and without giving away my identity it was a big deal for me and we fought hard and got that dropped.  The deal was  "Ignore what you don't like about them (who they sleep with) and they'll ignore what they don't like about you (religion) and we'll all agree we like pizza so we'll order pizza.

And even -I- am getting entirely sick of their shit. I actually feel a little stabbed in the back these days knowing i went in front of conservatives in western Canada and spoke for THEIR rights - and now they want to step on the rights of others,  ANd i'm not even religious.

If i'm getting to that point - a LOT of people are getting to that point, And a lot more will be past it.

Right.  No disagreement here.  I don't think any Muslim or Christian should be told what they must believe by gay people.

However, homosexuality is both natural and legal.  Homosexual relations are as valid as heterosexual relations and all this should be taught in schools, because it is the truth.

Any Muslim or Christian who opposes such is akin to a good old boy from Alabama opposing the teaching that all the races are equal and should be treated as such.  He can believe what he wants.  The schools will teach differently.

( I do understand what you're getting at, because when the pendulum swings too far the message becomes counter productive in certain hands, and we are definitely seeing that.  That doesn't change the validity of the original message, though)

I've never been to a pride parade, and I'm never likely to, because I have no interest in their celebrations.    I would probably disapprove of much of what I saw, but they don't need my approval, any more than they need my attendance.

Edited August 7, 2023 by bcsapper
I hate that double post nonsense!

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why?  Maybe the laws need to be changed because they got it wrong. 

Sure, if you want.

[CdnFox]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

Only to people who have no idea what conservative values are.

ROFKLMAOOOO - Sure -conservatives have no idea what conservative values are.

"It's not me who's crazy, it's the REST of the world who's crazy!!!!

-Micheal Hardner, probably

 

Dude you are so far left that the only way you could be considered right is if you 'round robin' there  

[Zeitgeist]

24 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

However, homosexuality is both natural and legal.  Homosexual relations are as valid as heterosexual relations and all this should be taught in schools, because it is the truth.

 

 

You’re not going to get agreement on this. Just because something is legal doesn’t make it good, which is one of the arguments behind the protests.  It’s not just Muslims either.  The Catholic Catechism teaches that sex that isn’t open to the possibility of children is ultimately wrong.  It’s why sex is confined to marriage in that faith, and it’s why that faith doesn’t allow same sex marriage.  It’s not nothing to practising Catholics.  Abortion is also legal, yet the Catechism opposes it.  I know you don’t believe in or like religion, but religious rights are constitutionally protected, and pretending they don’t matter doesn’t change that fact.

Hardner, don’t even bother.  You’re a buffet Catholic who only picks the bits that our laws support.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re not going to get agreement on this. Just because something is legal doesn’t make it good, which is one of the arguments behind the protests.  It’s not just Muslims either.  The Catholic Catechism teaches that sex that isn’t open to the possibility of children is ultimately wrong.  It’s why sex is confined to marriage in that faith, and it’s why that faith doesn’t allow same sex marriage.  It’s not nothing to practising Catholics.  Abortion is also legal, yet the Catechism opposes it.  I know you don’t believe in or like religion, but religious rights are constitutionally protected, and pretending they don’t matter doesn’t change that fact.

Hardner, don’t even bother.  You’re a buffet Catholic who only picks the bits that our laws support.  

I don't really care about agreement.  If I wanted agreement there are sites for that, I'm sure.  I like arguing.

Everything else you said is based on religion, and the only things that matter with religion are that anyone who wants to live by it should be able to, within the law, and no-one who doesn't should have to give it any consideration whatsoever.

 

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I don't really care about agreement.  If I wanted agreement there are sites for that, I'm sure.  I like arguing.

Everything else you said is based on religion, and the only things that matter with religion are that anyone who wants to live by it should be able to, within the law, and no-one who doesn't should have to give it any consideration whatsoever.

 

Sure, but that doesn’t give you the right to shove gender ideology and alternative sexual lifestyles down kids’ throats in elementary schools.  You can try in the name of your interpretation of social justice, but you will get an all out war from those who disagree with you, thankfully.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Right.  No disagreement here.  I don't think any Muslim or Christian should be told what they must believe by gay people.

We're on the same page there then.

Quote

However, homosexuality is both natural and legal.  Homosexual relations are as valid as heterosexual relations and all this should be taught in schools, because it is the truth.

It is your truth.   It happens to be mine as well.  It is not everyone's. IT SHOULD NOT be taught in schools. 

There are MANY things that are a matter of opinion which don't belong in schools. For many people, "jesus died for our sins' is absolutely the truth.  Is it for you?

Schools, especially elementary and high schools, should NOT be a battle ground for controversial ideas. The parents

 

Quote

Any Muslim or Christian who opposes such is akin to a good old boy from Alabama opposing the teaching that all the races are equal and should be treated as such.  He can believe what he wants.  The schools will teach differently.

Will they? How's that been working out? Things getting better out there?

 

Quote

( I do understand what you're getting at, because when the pendulum swings too far the message becomes counter productive, and we are definitely seeing that.  That doesn't change the validity of the message, though)

 

This is my concern.  We're there, and we're quickly approaching a line of departure where there's just no easy coming back from.

THe validity of the point isn't relevant per se - the results are and i'm not liking where the results are going right now.  Keep the schools neutral and let kids learn about what they have in common and not what sets them apart.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

And yet there's no groundswell of opposition to the curriculum.  In Ontario the ministry of education is changing nothing on this file.

But there is.  And it's growing.  So far the ministry is trying to avoid change but the pressures and tensions are building.

They've got children out on the streets stomping on pride flags  in protest.  A huge number of kids are being kept home from schools in protest - more than half in some places.

You're out of touch. There is MAJOR pushback and it's just getting stronger. this does not end well.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

You don't like it

I don't have an issue with homosexuality. My wife's daughter came out to her.

Love is love, as far as am concerned. I just won't pretend that being gay is the same. Its not. That's not stated as an insult, but rather as a fact. Be proud to be different.

Just like me being black is not the same as being white. I am entitled to the same rights, bleed the same blood and am the same in many ways, but am not the same. Why would I not want to celebrate my differences and be proud of them? 

Isn't that what Canada is all about? Being united by the country we live in, yet being celebrated for our differences, or rather what makes each one of us unique, thus what we bring to the table having more value?

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

It's also perfectly natural. 

Never eluded to it not being natural. I eluded to it not being the same.

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Homosexuality has been around as long as there was sex.

I don't need to be educated about homosexuality or its history, regarding rights, and their social movement.

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Anyone who thinks religion has a say in the matter is not worth responding to.

It doesn't. However, one has the freedom to religion in our society.

Telling someone deeply religious what to believe, is about as insulting as telling someone that is gay, that their love isn't legitimate.

We used tolerate each others positions, until Trudeau tried to exploit divisive rhetoric, undoing decades of progress and social acceptance.

To rub it in, pledging well below required amounts for the community, and adding insult to injury in virtue signaling the living daylights out of the gesture.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. Many — if not most — parents do NOT want this for their kids.  The fact that you make these assumptions says a lot about the ignorance among our leaders about what people actually think and want.

1. Cite this or drop it.

Curriculum gets LOTS of public discussion, such as in Ontario.  Just because a Child shows up at a meeting and gets cut off doesn't mean that there's a mass movement being shut down.  Ontario has a CONSERVATIVE government even, not exactly woke.

I'll look for the evidence at the top of your next reply.  Otherwise, it's more propaganda designed to remove rights and freedoms from the majority of Canadians who want them.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

1. Sure -conservatives have no idea what conservative values are.

2. Dude you are so far left ..

1. Populist Chuds aren't conservative.  They love strongmen, have no patience for boring details, hate the environment, courts, universities and institutions.  They use gimmicky catch phrases from the last ten years and support strongmen...

2. And what's your evidence?  This should be good.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 

They've got children out on the streets stomping on pride flags  in protest.  

How gullible you are to believe that a few kids in a viral video represent 'evidence'.  

Staged videos are like sugar on the ground for you and your ants...

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Sure, but that doesn’t give you the right to shove gender ideology and alternative sexual lifestyles down kids’ throats in elementary schools.   

In other words, teaching a curriculum that was discussed PUBLICLY.

If you had a leg to stand on then you wouldn't resort to framing things so deceptively.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't have an issue with homosexuality. My wife's daughter came out to her.

Love is love, as far as am concerned. I just won't pretend that being gay is the same. Its not. That's not stated as an insult, but rather as a fact. Be proud to be different.

Just like me being black is not the same as being white. I am entitled to the same rights, bleed the same blood and am the same in many ways, but am not the same. Why would I not want to celebrate my differences and be proud of them? 

Isn't that what Canada is all about? Being united by the country we live in, yet being celebrated for our differences, or rather what makes each one of us unique, thus what we bring to the table having more value?

Never eluded to it not being natural. I eluded to it not being the same.

I don't need to be educated about homosexuality or its history, regarding rights, and their social movement.

It doesn't. However, one has the freedom to religion in our society.

Telling someone deeply religious what to believe, is about as insulting as telling someone that is gay, that their love isn't legitimate.

We used tolerate each others positions, until Trudeau tried to exploit divisive rhetoric, undoing decades of progress and social acceptance.

To rub it in, pledging well below required amounts for the community, and adding insult to injury in virtue signaling the living daylights out of the gesture.

If you like.  I'm not the same as my neighbour.  We're both white, but I came from England.  And we're both different from our other neighbour, because he sometimes wears his cap on backwards.

Why do people keep bringing up freedom of religion as though that means they can make others adhere to their religious beliefs?

I don't care about Trudeau.

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

We're on the same page there then.

It is your truth.   It happens to be mine as well.  It is not everyone's. IT SHOULD NOT be taught in schools. 

There are MANY things that are a matter of opinion which don't belong in schools. For many people, "jesus died for our sins' is absolutely the truth.  Is it for you?

Schools, especially elementary and high schools, should NOT be a battle ground for controversial ideas. The parents

 

Will they? How's that been working out? Things getting better out there?

 

 

This is my concern.  We're there, and we're quickly approaching a line of departure where there's just no easy coming back from.

THe validity of the point isn't relevant per se - the results are and i'm not liking where the results are going right now.  Keep the schools neutral and let kids learn about what they have in common and not what sets them apart.

It's not a matter of opinion.  It's a fact.  It should be taught in schools.  End of discussion as far as I'm concerned.  (Panto time)

Jesus died for our sins is simply a myth.  Should not be taught is schools, except in a class about it and other myths. 

Ideally, schools should not be a battle ground for controversial ideas.  If the alternative is religious bigotry, they might have to be.  The idea should not be controversial in the first place.

Things don't seem to be getting better.  Gotta keep up the good fight though. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by bcsapper