China's unrelenting influence campaign in Canada

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

no no - that's still just one.  .e ......

You mean like posting the same little icon again and again......

....

Yup OK ? 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Michael Chong is surely one of our most respected MPs. We need to listen to what he is saying about foreign interference:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wechat-disinformation-operation-chong-1.6931377

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[ExFlyer]

59 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Michael Chong is surely one of our most respected MPs. We need to listen to what he is saying about foreign interference:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wechat-disinformation-operation-chong-1.6931377

 

 

To what end does China gain anything for disrespecting Mr Chong, and already sitting MP?   WeChat, a social media outlet is as full of misinformation as any of the social media sites here. "Between May 4 and 13, 2023, a coordinated network of WeChat's news accounts featured, shared and amplified a large volume of false or misleading narratives about Mr. Chong,"

So what is Global Affairs Canada other than Canada's way of influencing other countries to benefit Canada?

"We define, shape and advance Canada’s interests and values in a complex global environment. We manage diplomatic relations, promote international trade and provide consular assistance. We lead international development, humanitarian, and peace and security assistance efforts. We also contribute to national security and the development of international law."

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

To what end does China gain anything for disrespecting Mr Chong, and already sitting MP?

This could be one of those cases of interference alleged to have benefited the Liberal Party. So there could be any number of ends.

[SpankyMcFarland]

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

 

To what end does China gain anything for disrespecting Mr Chong, and already sitting MP?   WeChat, a social media outlet is as full of misinformation as any of the social media sites here. "Between May 4 and 13, 2023, a coordinated network of WeChat's news accounts featured, shared and amplified a large volume of false or misleading narratives about Mr. Chong,"

So what is Global Affairs Canada other than Canada's way of influencing other countries to benefit Canada?

"We define, shape and advance Canada’s interests and values in a complex global environment. We manage diplomatic relations, promote international trade and provide consular assistance. We lead international development, humanitarian, and peace and security assistance efforts. We also contribute to national security and the development of international law."

Can you point to a similar campaign against a Chinese politician waged by the Canadian government? 

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Can you point to a similar campaign against a Chinese politician waged by the Canadian government? 

Sure i can - we're trying to get Trudeau kicked out right now!!!

Oh - wait,  you meant a Chinese politician that's part of the actual Chinese gov't didn't you.  That's my bad.

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Can you point to a similar campaign against a Chinese politician waged by the Canadian government? 

How could you? The Chinese do not advertise or have political campaigns like we do. They do not have elections like we do.

Is there underground tactics used in their "elections"? I am sure there are but again, they do not have the same freedoms to accuse as we do. Inconsistencies and irregularities are probably taken care of in the dark of the night  LOL

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

This could be one of those cases of interference alleged to have benefited the Liberal Party. So there could be any number of ends.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda but did it?

2 week chatter on WeChat, a Chinese language chat site ...?

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda but did it?

That sounds like a good Liberal Party campaign slogan.

How would anyone ever know without...you know.

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

How could you? The Chinese do not advertise or have political campaigns like we do. They do not have elections like we do.

Is there underground tactics used in their "elections"? I am sure there are but again, they do not have the same freedoms to accuse as we do. Inconsistencies and irregularities are probably taken care of in the dark of the night  LOL

Not just during elections - any time. Let’s widen the net. Is there any Chinese citizen our government has targeted with a blizzard of false allegations? 

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Not just during elections - any time. Let’s widen the net. Is there any Chinese citizen our government has targeted with a blizzard of false allegations? 

I think the more serious question in between elections is "Has chinese operatives (either by choice or corersion) deliberately influenced a canadian MP to vote in a pro chinese manner in the house?

As i understand it, csis thinks the answer is yes.  That people worm their way into being advisors or the like in the MP's office and then control information and such given to him to cause him to lean in one direction or another.

THAT is VERY concerning.

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

That sounds like a good Liberal Party campaign slogan.

How would anyone ever know without...you know.

Au Contraire, can be and is a slogan for every political party. They all like to criticize the past actions.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Not just during elections - any time. Let’s widen the net. Is there any Chinese citizen our government has targeted with a blizzard of false allegations? 

I and you would not know.

[SpankyMcFarland]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I and you would not know.

I would concede we’d have a hard time knowing such a thing. Until such evidence emerges, why not give our government the benefit of the doubt? 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I would concede we’d have a hard time knowing such a thing. Until such evidence emerges, why not give our government the benefit of the doubt? 

What on earth has our gov't done that suggests it deserves the benefit of the doubt for ANYTHING?  If anything they've proven they deserve the doubt.

[ExFlyer]

13 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I would concede we’d have a hard time knowing such a thing. Until such evidence emerges, why not give our government the benefit of the doubt? 

 Benefit of what doubt?? Yeah right LOL

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

I think the more serious question in between elections is "Has chinese operatives (either by choice or corersion) deliberately influenced a canadian MP to vote in a pro chinese manner in the house?

As i understand it, csis thinks the answer is yes.  That people worm their way into being advisors or the like in the MP's office and then control information and such given to him to cause him to lean in one direction or another.

THAT is VERY concerning.

If CSIS is so sure then why is it not informing the public who this MP is and what actions it is going to take on them?
If not naming who the MP is, then why is it that they still sit in the house?

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

If CSIS is so sure then why is it not informing the public who this MP is and what actions it is going to take on them?
 

It was part of the leaked report - and that was presented to the gov't.  Csis doesnt' report to mp's.

Quote

If not naming who the MP is, then why is it that they still sit in the house?

Good question.  The Libs refuse to name them and the leaked portion didn't.

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

What on earth has our gov't done that suggests it deserves the benefit of the doubt for ANYTHING?  If anything they've proven they deserve the doubt.

To believe this allegation one would first have to assume our government was pursuing an aggressive PR strategy within China. I don’t see the evidence for that. If such evidence ever emerges I am willing to change my mind. 

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

To believe this allegation one would first have to assume our government was pursuing an aggressive PR strategy within China.

No, one would just have to believe it's plausible. Which is absolutely true.

 

45 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

. I don’t see the evidence for that. If such evidence ever emerges I am willing to change my mind. 

There's tonnes.  A number of liberals have directly benefited from donations and assistance in their campaigns, the liberal gov't knew about it and chose to do nothing for years.  If a gov't is benefiting from a foreign power's interference  and doing nothing despite being informed of it then right there that's evidence they may be working in a coordinated fashion with that foreign entity.

On top of that there have been a number of questionable decisions involving china which have lead to accusations in the past that this gov't has been favoring china. That is also very suspicious in light of these allegations.

I think if you say "NO" evidence you're being a little willfully blind.

[SpankyMcFarland]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No, one would just have to believe it's plausible. Which is absolutely true.

 

There's tonnes.  A number of liberals have directly benefited from donations and assistance in their campaigns, the liberal gov't knew about it and chose to do nothing for years.  If a gov't is benefiting from a foreign power's interference  and doing nothing despite being informed of it then right there that's evidence they may be working in a coordinated fashion with that foreign entity.

On top of that there have been a number of questionable decisions involving china which have lead to accusations in the past that this gov't has been favoring china. That is also very suspicious in light of these allegations.

I think if you say "NO" evidence you're being a little willfully blind.

I think we are talking at cross-purposes here. You are concerned the government is favouring China. I am saying no evidence exists that our government has targeted Chinese citizens, esp. govt. officials, in the same way Michael Chong has been targeted. 

[CdnFox]

31 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think we are talking at cross-purposes here. You are concerned the government is favouring China. I am saying no evidence exists that our government has targeted Chinese citizens, esp. govt. officials, in the same way Michael Chong has been targeted. 

Ahhh - well in that case i misread that.  My bad.

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

.....  A number of liberals have directly benefited from donations and assistance in their campaigns, the liberal gov't knew about it and chose to do nothing for years.  If a gov't is benefiting from a foreign power's interference  and doing nothing despite being informed of it then right there that's evidence they may be working in a coordinated fashion with that foreign entity.

On top of that there have been a number of questionable decisions involving china which have lead to accusations in the past that this gov't has been favoring china. That is also very suspicious in light of these allegations.

I think if you say "NO" evidence you're being a little willfully blind.

I cannot only blame liberal government for his phenomenon. Yes, i tis now the news of the day but, it is an age old issue.

I believe that regardless of who is in power, there is foreign "interference" or "assistance".

Regardless of the candidate of whatever party, these countries or organizations butter their bread on all sides.

There have been "questionable decisions involving china" for decades.

Politics lives off donations. From who or where the donations come from is a topic that pops up every once in a while. There are no clean hands in any party.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I cannot only blame liberal government for his phenomenon. Yes, i tis now the news of the day but, it is an age old issue.

I believe that regardless of who is in power, there is foreign "interference" or "assistance".

Regardless of the candidate of whatever party, these countries or organizations butter their bread on all sides.

There have been "questionable decisions involving china" for decades.

Politics lives off donations. From who or where the donations come from is a topic that pops up every once in a while. There are no clean hands in any party.

I'll grant you that every gov't has been aware that its a threat and done little to stop it. Certainly harper could have brought in a foreign agents registry but didn't. 

I don't think anyone realized its' as bad as the leaked report suggests though. And i don't know that anyone would really be able to blame the liberals for it getting that bad in the first place.

But - they had that report and sat on it.  They're still sitting on it. Other countries have foreign agent registry laws just to help fight this and have success with it -  the us, Australia,  etc  It would not be hard to steal from them and put something in place but he has deliberately avoided that.  

So - while there's an element of truth in what you say without a doubt, the libs right now are going to have to be responsible for their actions and inactions in light of the fact they KNEW it was this bad.

[ExFlyer]

33 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I'll grant you that every gov't has been aware that its a threat and done little to stop it. Certainly harper could have brought in a foreign agents registry but didn't. 

I don't think anyone realized its' as bad as the leaked report suggests though. And i don't know that anyone would really be able to blame the liberals for it getting that bad in the first place.

But - they had that report and sat on it.  They're still sitting on it. Other countries have foreign agent registry laws just to help fight this and have success with it -  the us, Australia,  etc  It would not be hard to steal from them and put something in place but he has deliberately avoided that.  

So - while there's an element of truth in what you say without a doubt, the libs right now are going to have to be responsible for their actions and inactions in light of the fact they KNEW it was this bad.

We have FARA, Foreign Agent Registry Act,.... since 1938

"FARA was enacted in 1938 and requires certain individuals acting on behalf of foreign principals (governments, entities or individuals) who are engaged in political activities or other activities under the statute to register as a “foreign agent” with the Department of Justice." 

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/trnsprnc/brfng-mtrls/prlmntry-bndrs/20210625/20-en.aspx

 

Seems no government has done anything with it....ever, or at least I cannot find any evidence of any action on it. We Canadians have laws but are too non offensive,. LOL