Income Trust Leak

[Kiraly]

CTV Link

There was no specific advance notice whatsoever," Goodale told CTV. 

More importantly, perhaps, CTV discovered evidence, in writing, that seems to suggest some people had advance knowledge of exactly what the finance minister was going to say.

That evidence is in public bulletin board postings on a popular investor's internet site called "Stockhouse".  The first posting -- at 11:14 that morning -- came from someone who wrote, "Skuttlebutt is that he (Goodale) will soon announce a reduction on dividend taxation to 'even the playing field'".  This information was posted a full seven hours before the minister's press conference, and possibly viewed by many potential investors before the markets closed.

The second posting on the same site came from another person, who also seemed to know what was coming.  At 3:59, they posted this message, "The hot rumour is that the government's decision on the income trust issue is that they are going to make a more level playing field by reducing the degree of double taxation which currently exists on dividends by increasing the dividend tax credit."

The Finance Minister used almost that exact wording, when he made his announcement two hours later.

Hmmmm....

....very interesting.

[Riverwind]

That evidence is in public bulletin board postings on a popular investor's internet site called "Stockhouse".  The first posting -- at 11:14 that morning -- came from someone who wrote, "Skuttlebutt is that he (Goodale) will soon announce a reduction on dividend taxation to 'even the playing field'".

All this "evidence" shows is that stock players were deliberately spreading a rumour in order cause a spike in stocks that they had already bought. There is no evidence that these players knew what the annoucement would be because they could make a profit even if they were wrong by selling their position before Goodale announced anything.

The fact that Stockhouse is notorious for 'pump and dump' scams gives more credibility to this interpretation. If these people really knew that the news was going to be good then they would have kept their mouths shut and sold the next day. The fact that they spread the rumor early, IMO, proves that they did not know for certain that the news was going to be good.

It is possible that someone in Goodale's office annouced that Goodale would be making an annoucement after market closed and that they failed to follow procedure when it came to notifying the various media outlets. In which case, somebody did make a mistake, however, there is a big difference between making a mistake and deliberately leaking information.

[lovecanada]

That evidence is in public bulletin board postings on a popular investor's internet site called "Stockhouse".  The first posting -- at 11:14 that morning -- came from someone who wrote, "Skuttlebutt is that he (Goodale) will soon announce a reduction on dividend taxation to 'even the playing field'".

All this "evidence" shows is that stock players were deliberately spreading a rumour in order cause a spike in stocks that they had already bought. There is no evidence that these players knew what the annoucement would be because they could make a profit even if they were wrong by selling their position before Goodale announced anything.

The fact that Stockhouse is notorious for 'pump and dump' scams gives more credibility to this interpretation. If these people really knew that the news was going to be good then they would have kept their mouths shut and sold the next day. The fact that they spread the rumor early, IMO, proves that they did not know for certain that the news was going to be good.

It is possible that someone in Goodale's office annouced that Goodale would be making an annoucement after market closed and that they failed to follow procedure when it came to notifying the various media outlets. In which case, somebody did make a mistake, however, there is a big difference between making a mistake and deliberately leaking information.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well even if we assume it was a mistake, lots of people made lots of money on this mistake! A Liberal mistake, again??

[Riverwind]

Well even if we assume it was a mistake, lots of people made lots of money on this mistake! A Liberal mistake, again??

Well, no. It could have been a goof by a civil servant or, more likely, Goodale suddenly changed his mind and there simply was not enough time for the proper notification. In fact, I knew about this annoucement before it happened by listening to mainstream media outlets so the true blame may actually rest with the media outlets that were slow to report the story.

[Vancouver King]

CTV Link

There was no specific advance notice whatsoever," Goodale told CTV. 

More importantly, perhaps, CTV discovered evidence, in writing, that seems to suggest some people had advance knowledge of exactly what the finance minister was going to say.

That evidence is in public bulletin board postings on a popular investor's internet site called "Stockhouse".  The first posting -- at 11:14 that morning -- came from someone who wrote, "Skuttlebutt is that he (Goodale) will soon announce a reduction on dividend taxation to 'even the playing field'".  This information was posted a full seven hours before the minister's press conference, and possibly viewed by many potential investors before the markets closed.

The second posting on the same site came from another person, who also seemed to know what was coming.  At 3:59, they posted this message, "The hot rumour is that the government's decision on the income trust issue is that they are going to make a more level playing field by reducing the degree of double taxation which currently exists on dividends by increasing the dividend tax credit."

The Finance Minister used almost that exact wording, when he made his announcement two hours later.

Hmmmm....

....very interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read somewhere that RCMP are "investigating whether there should be an investigation". Their preliminary report is due the morning of January 24, 2006.

[Argus]

That evidence is in public bulletin board postings on a popular investor's internet site called "Stockhouse".  The first posting -- at 11:14 that morning -- came from someone who wrote, "Skuttlebutt is that he (Goodale) will soon announce a reduction on dividend taxation to 'even the playing field'".

All this "evidence" shows is that stock players were deliberately spreading a rumour in order cause a spike in stocks that they had already bought. There is no evidence that these players knew what the annoucement would be because they could make a profit even if they were wrong by selling their position before Goodale announced anything.

Sparkhaw, nothing short of a tearful confession will ever convince you any Liberal could possibly do anything wrong.

Fact is, this sort of thing happens to often. There was a lot of succesful 'speculation" before the last several budgets. A lot of Liberal insiders are making a lot of money by having prior knowledge of budget items.

[shoop]

Kiraly,

Your link was dead, so here it is again. CTV Link redux

I think Warren Kinsella said it best in his post today.

And I recall being astonished by how many laudatory, pro-Liberal press releases were on Canada Newswire within minutes of his statementNone of those press releases came out before the markets closed, but I'd be willing to bet a big income trust dividend that they weren't typed up and sent out within seconds of Goodale's flip-flop, either. And boy oh boy, a lot of people sure made a lot of money in the early part of that week, didn't they?

Far be it for me to pre-judge an OSC or RCMP investigation, but I'd be very interested in eyeballing one Parliamentary Secretary's - and one ministerial office's - phone and email records for the 72 hours preceding that announcement.

www.warrenkinsella.com/musings

[shoop]

Kinsella is staying on the story. The CTV has an interesting article on the CARP flip flop on the issue.

It could become *the* issue of the election.

I cannot believe the finance ministry's director of communications *publicly* called the guy from CARP old and confused. That is pretty ignant.

CTV Link

[scribblet]

Kinsella is staying on the story. The CTV has an interesting article on the CARP flip flop on the issue.

It could become *the* issue of the election.

I cannot believe the finance ministry's director of communications *publicly* called the guy from CARP old and confused. That is pretty ignant.

CTV Link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, if some of those 'old and confused' voters start to pick up on this it could be fun. This story seems to be gaining some traction. CARP has a lot of members, wonder if they are all aware of what was said.

[sharkman]

IMO, best to let it simmer until January. It's obviously pretty serious and it usually takes the RCMP a while to start investigating. If it got big and hit the second week of January or so, what a christmas present for Harper!

[justcrowing]

CARP is an advocacy group for people 50+.

I got the following in an email from a friend [retired stockbroker] .......

Neither Ralph Badbeer nor CARP,of which I am a member,look good on this

one.It is the old "duck and cover" defence. THERE WAS A LEAK AND CARP KNEW

ABOUT IT. Liberals and others may lie,but the stockmarket tells all.

I am having exasperating computer problems re posting to the AOL BOARD.

Later today I shall be making a POST to the Board via Willie(regular

poster) outlining my dilemma. I shall copy to you JJ and as My Computer Ma

you may have a comment. HAGD Rick

Updated: Fri. Dec. 9 2005 8:20 AM ET.....CTV NEWS STAFF

Allegations of leaks in his department have put Finance Minister Ralph

Goodale on the hot seat in the middle of an election campaign, and put the

director of a seniors' organization in an uncomfortable spotlight.

The Liberals were caught off guard Wednesday night, when Bill Gleberzon,

the Director of Government & Media Relations for Canada's Association for

the Fifty Plus (CARP), told CTV News he got a phone call on the morning of

Nov. 23, alerting him to an announcement later that day from the finance

minister's office.

That call came several hours before Goodale announced that the federal

government had decided not to change its stand on income trusts but would

increase the tax credit on corporate dividends.

In the hours before the official announcement, there was heavier-than-usual

trading in income trusts and dividend-paying stocks. That has fuelled

speculation that some investors profited from an early warning.

"The day they made the announcement they phoned us and said something is

going to be said," Gleberzon, told CTV News Wednesday night.

Gleberzon said the call came from a senior policy advisor in the finance

minister's office, someone his group had been dealing with all along.

However, on Thursday morning, Gleberzon and CARP issued a news release

denying any advance knowledge of Goodale's announcement.

"At no time was CARP given an indication by the Minister's office of when

the announcement would be made or what it would say," the release said.

CTV's Kathy Tomlinson talked to Gleberzon after the release was issued. He

confirmed what he had said in the previous interview, but now maintained he

had misspoken.

At first, Gleberzon said no one from the finance minister's office had

contacted him about the interview.

When told that the finance ministry's communications director, John Embury,

had already admitted to calling Gleberzon Wednesday night, he explained:

"I did speak to him .. I shouldn't have said that I didn't, but I did,"

Gleberzon told Tomlinson.

"They phoned me and they asked -- they found out about the interview. He

asked me what was going on, I told him, but it's when we were talking about

the timing issue that I realized how important it was."

Gleberzon said Embury told him: "We don't want to coach you, we don't want

to tell you what to say, we just want to know what to prepare for."

Embury was aware of the story earlier in the day, and sent an email to CTV

Wednesday night, before the newscast aired, saying of Gleberzon: "He denies

saying what he is supposed to have said to your reporter."

In a phone call later, Embury told CTV's Robert Fife that Gleberzon was old

and confused.

"Well that's a nice ageist excuse," Gleberzon said when told of the comment

Thursday. "I'm not that old, and I don't think I'm getting confused."

Embury told CTV he has since apologized to Gleberzon for that comment.

No one has evidence the Liberals or the department of finance leaked

details of the announcement before the markets closed on Nov. 23. But some

Bay Street players say some traders knew Goodale was going to make an

announcement and invested heavily.

Goodale has denied any leaks from his ministry, and at a campaign stop in

Toronto on Thursday, Prime Minister Paul Martin backed that up.

"The fact is that Mr. Goodale has said that there was not a leak from his

department," Martin said. "The fact is he has also said that the Ontario

authorities are in a position to do an investigation as they would do in

any circumstance such as that, and obviously he and his department will

cooperate fully with that."

[tml12]

IMO, best to let it simmer until January.  It's obviously pretty serious and it usually takes the RCMP a while to start investigating.  If it got big and hit the second week of January or so, what a christmas present for Harper!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is true but I would think it won't happen...

There is just not enough evidence...

[shoop]

Not enough evidence so far....

But it makes you wonder why Bleberzon (the CARP Director of Communications did such an about face).

Somebody will dig into this. If the Liberals were to release the call and email logs of the staff from Goodales office then the story would go away instantly. Why won't they release those logs?

This is true but I would think it won't happen...

There is just not enough evidence...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sharkman]

Not enough evidence so far....

But it makes you wonder why Bleberzon (the CARP Director of Communications did such an about face).

Somebody will dig into this. If the Liberals were to release the call and email logs of the staff from Goodales office then the story would go away instantly. Why won't they release those logs?

.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm afraid all those call and email logs were destroyed long ago. The Liberals wrote the book on covering your tracks, remember the envelopes of cash in Quebec? The good news is when there is so much scandal, sooner or later a mistake will be made and blow the cover off.

[Kiraly]

RCMP investigating

The RCMP has launched a criminal investigation into the release of information by the Department of Finance, related to the income trust issue.

RCMP Commissioner Guiliano Zaccardelli confirmed the investigation in a letter to NDP finance critic Judy Wasylycia-Leis. "We would like to advise you that a review of this matter has been completed. Based on the information obtained during the review, the RCMP will be commencing a criminal investigation," he wrote.

On Nov. 23, the federal government announced just before 6 p.m. EST, it would cut the tax on corporate dividends and would make no changes to the tax on income trusts. That's the type of news that is always announced after stock markets close at 4 p.m. EST because it would give a boost to those types of securities.

[shoop]

This story has the potential to become bigger as the election continues.

So far it is just another item on the long (and growing ) list of Liberal mishandling this election.

It is strange how much things can change in 18 months. In 2004 Harper and the CPC couldn't catch a break. Now it is the Liberals in that position.

Oh wait for their *hard-hitting* attack ads in 2006. Yaaaaaawn!

[lovecanada]

This story has the potential to become bigger as the election continues.

So far it is just another item on the long (and growing  ) list of Liberal mishandling this election.

It is strange how much things can change in 18 months. In 2004 Harper and the CPC couldn't catch a break. Now it is the Liberals in that position.

Oh wait for their *hard-hitting* attack ads in 2006. Yaaaaaawn!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it was the lead story on the news tonight, so momentum is with the opposition parties. Liberals are going to have a hard time with this one! Deny, Deny, Deny...wait, we already did that with Adscam.

[shoop]

Good catch. It is even getting prominent coverage on the CBC Web site. Very, very bad news for the Liberals. So much for those attack ads turning the tide for them.

Well, it was the lead story on the news tonight, so momentum is with the opposition parties. Liberals are going to have a hard time with this one! Deny, Deny, Deny...wait, we already did that with Adscam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[lovecanada]

Good catch. It is even getting prominent coverage on the CBC Web site. Very, very bad news for the Liberals. So much for those attack ads turning the tide for them. 

Well, it was the lead story on the news tonight, so momentum is with the opposition parties. Liberals are going to have a hard time with this one! Deny, Deny, Deny...wait, we already did that with Adscam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Liberals are fighting back by saying no-one has been charged yet? YET???? That is so lame! Voters are smarter than that!

[The Honest Politician]

A bunch of people who's job it is to predict what an official will do based on economic and political indicators, actually predicted what an official would do based on the current economic and political indicators. They made a lot of money because they were right. There were also people who lost on that deal because the were wrong.

"It's very clear from the comments of the RCMP that they have no information, no evidence, no indication of any wrongdoing on my part and no direct allegation against me personally,'' Goodale told reporters Wednesday at his constituency office in Regina.

Goodale

Looking for corruption everywhere is bound to turn up somethings that appear to be more than they really are.

[lovecanada]

A bunch of people who's job it is to predict what an official will do based on economic and political indicators, actually predicted what an official would do based on the current economic and political indicators.  They made a lot of money because they were right. There were also people who lost on that deal because the were wrong.

"It's very clear from the comments of the RCMP that they have no information, no evidence, no indication of any wrongdoing on my part and no direct allegation against me personally,'' Goodale told reporters Wednesday at his constituency office in Regina.

Goodale

Looking for corruption everywhere is bound to turn up somethings that appear to be more than they really are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, you have no position on this one, RCMP are investigating CRIMINAL charges, they don't do that without some proof! Why is it only the Liberals being investigated? Reminds me of the ad, HAND in my pocket!!!

[The Honest Politician]

A bunch of people who's job it is to predict what an official will do based on economic and political indicators, actually predicted what an official would do based on the current economic and political indicators.  They made a lot of money because they were right. There were also people who lost on that deal because the were wrong.

"It's very clear from the comments of the RCMP that they have no information, no evidence, no indication of any wrongdoing on my part and no direct allegation against me personally,'' Goodale told reporters Wednesday at his constituency office in Regina.

Goodale

Looking for corruption everywhere is bound to turn up somethings that appear to be more than they really are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, you have no position on this one, RCMP are investigating CRIMINAL charges, they don't do that without some proof! Why is it only the Liberals being investigated? Reminds me of the ad, HAND in my pocket!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought they used the investigation to find facts which corroborate the accusation. Without the CARP exec. saying he got a phone call, and the similar "Buzz words" and "catch phases" used in the online post there really isn't anything. Unless informing someone that an announcement would be made is a crime. If it is then just by scheduling the news conference for the announcement could possibly be a crime if it was done before the market closed at 4:00. In his own words the Exec "assumed" what the call meant.

Just because there is a criminal investigation that doesn't mean there will be any criminal charges. If there is something there, look for the investigation to be expanded.

[lovecanada]

A bunch of people who's job it is to predict what an official will do based on economic and political indicators, actually predicted what an official would do based on the current economic and political indicators.  They made a lot of money because they were right. There were also people who lost on that deal because the were wrong.

"It's very clear from the comments of the RCMP that they have no information, no evidence, no indication of any wrongdoing on my part and no direct allegation against me personally,'' Goodale told reporters Wednesday at his constituency office in Regina.

Goodale

Looking for corruption everywhere is bound to turn up somethings that appear to be more than they really are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, you have no position on this one, RCMP are investigating CRIMINAL charges, they don't do that without some proof! Why is it only the Liberals being investigated? Reminds me of the ad, HAND in my pocket!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought they used the investigation to find facts which corroborate the accusation. Without the CARP exec. saying he got a phone call, and the similar "Buzz words" and "catch phases" used in the online post there really isn't anything. Unless informing someone that an announcement would be made is a crime. If it is then just by scheduling the news conference for the announcement could possibly be a crime if it was done before the market closed at 4:00. In his own words the Exec "assumed" what the call meant.

Just because there is a criminal investigation that doesn't mean there will be any criminal charges. If there is something there, look for the investigation to be expanded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, good try, but Liberal babble/misdirection only works for so long, then regular voters revolt!!

[shoop]

Informing someone privately that an announcement would be made would definitely be a crime in this case. Even if nothing else was said, knowing an announcement would be made on that day gave whoever had access to that information knowledge that wasn't publicly available.

If that fact can be proven then the RCMP will go ahead and press charges.

Goodale should step aside until this case is dealt with.

Unless informing someone that an announcement would be made is a crime. If it is then just by scheduling the news conference for the announcement could possibly be a crime if it was done before the market closed at 4:00. In his own words the Exec "assumed" what the call meant.

Just because there is a criminal investigation that doesn't mean there will be any criminal charges. If there is something there, look for the investigation to be expanded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[The Honest Politician]

Informing someone privately that an announcement would be made would definitely be a crime in this case. Even if nothing else was said, knowing an announcement would be made on that day gave whoever had access to that information knowledge that wasn't publicly available.

If that fact can be proven then the RCMP will go ahead and press charges.

Goodale should step aside until this case is dealt with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When the Press conference was scheduled that would make the fact that there was going to be an announcement public knowledge. If the press conference was scheduled before the call was made it wouldn't be illegal. But if the call was made before the Press conference was called it would be illegal.

It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.