Income Trust Leak

[shoop]

But if the call was made before the Press conference was called it would be illegal.

It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what I meant when I said informing somebody privately. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Sounds like you are actually agreeing with me on this. You appear to have talked yourself into seeing the potential wrongdoing in this one. Good for you!

[The Honest Politician]

But if the call was made before the Press conference was called it would be illegal.

It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what I meant when I said informing somebody privately. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Sounds like you are actually agreeing with me on this. You appear to have talked yourself into seeing the potential wrongdoing in this one. Good for you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good for me? Get a life. How very uppity of you to say that. The potential for wrongdoing is a hell of a lot different than actual proof. Why do you fail to see both sides? Is it not just as possible that there was no illegal action?

Shame on your small mindedness.

[wellandboy]

But if the call was made before the Press conference was called it would be illegal.

It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what I meant when I said informing somebody privately. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Sounds like you are actually agreeing with me on this. You appear to have talked yourself into seeing the potential wrongdoing in this one. Good for you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good for me? Get a life. How very uppity of you to say that. The potential for wrongdoing is a hell of a lot different than actual proof. Why do you fail to see both sides? Is it not just as possible that there was no illegal action?

Shame on your small mindedness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my, this sounds like a Liberal feeling victimized and it's all the Oppositions fault. The irony of a Liberal demanding for someone to "see both sides" is simply astounding.

[Vancouver King]

The RCMP said that "information received" justified a criminal investigation of a leak from Finance. The national force would not take such action lightly, they would be fully aware of it's explosive political potential in the middle of an election. To take such actions against their political masters points to the gravity of the evidence they have uncovered.

[shoop]

I kinda liked being told to "get a life" and "shame on my smallmindedness". Yes, the victimization is amazing. I guess it really should be 'shame on me for questioning the Liberals divine right to govern this country.

It is possible that there was no illegal action, but that is why the RCMP is investigating - to answer that very question. Goodale should step aside as minister until that question is answered.

Regardless of the histrionics on the Liberal part this investigation is terrible news for them. They had managed to push corruption of the front page. Now it is back and will likely stay there throughout the campaign.

The potential for wrongdoing is a hell of a lot different than actual proof. Is it not just as possible that there was no illegal action? 

Shame on your small mindedness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my, this sounds like a Liberal feeling victimized and it's all the Oppositions fault. The irony of a Liberal demanding for someone to "see both sides" is simply astounding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[The Honest Politician]

Yesterday, the RCMP made no mention of who was being investigated, and also noted in a statement that "there is no evidence of wrongdoing or illegal activity on the part of anyone associated to this investigation," including Goodale.

What do you know, the RCMP says there is no EVIDENCE. There is only allegations. Save your stakes and crosses, nothing has been proven yet.

[wellandboy]

Yesterday, the RCMP made no mention of who was being investigated, and also noted in a statement that "there is no evidence of wrongdoing or illegal activity on the part of anyone associated to this investigation," including Goodale.

What do you know, the RCMP says there is no EVIDENCE. There is only allegations. Save your stakes and crosses, nothing has been proven yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would expect no less from the RCMP considering we are in the middle of an election.

These are not frivolous allegations AND the RCMP as well as other police forces certainly do not waste investigaive time unless there are indicators of some wrongdoing.

[shoop]

The RCMP would no start an investigation in the middle of a campaign without serious evidence. The RCMP isn't playing politics here. Obviously they are going ahead because they honestly feel there is enough evidence to go forward with.

"Save you stakes and crosses?" More like save your pensions and arses. Regardless of who charges are field against in this case, ethics and honesty in government are now front and centre in this campaign. That is a good thing for all Canadians.

Bad news for the Liberals though...

I would expect no less from the RCMP considering we are in the middle of an election.

These are not frivolous allegations AND the RCMP as well as other police forces certainly do not waste investigaive time unless there are indicators of some wrongdoing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[The Honest Politician]

The RCMP are doing no more than they would if allegations of any crime under their juristiction were made. They have found an oddity and are investigating to find FACTS, which support the allegations. Until facts are found it is all supposition and without merit.

The RCMP would no start an investigation in the middle of a campaign without serious evidence. The RCMP isn't playing politics here. Obviously they are going ahead because they honestly feel there is enough evidence to go forward with.

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. If they had evidence, why did they say they have none? There where some serious allegations made and it is up to the RCMP to see if there are facts which support those allegations. If they already had evidence someone would be in custody right now, with the offer of a plea bargain in exchange for testimony.

[shoop]

Kind of a tough position to be in. Regardless of the outcome of the investigationi this could very well be the final nail in the coffin for the Liberals.

I think your talk of a plea bargain shows a little too much "Law & Order" and "CSI" knolwedge. Things don't work that quickly in the real world...

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. If they had evidence, why did they say they have none?  There where some serious allegations made and it is up to the RCMP to see if there are facts which support those allegations. If they already had evidence someone would be in custody right now, with the offer of a plea bargain in exchange for testimony.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[The Honest Politician]

Kind of a tough position to be in. Regardless of the outcome of the investigationi this could very well be the final nail in the coffin for the Liberals.

I think your talk of a plea bargain shows a little too much "Law & Order" and "CSI" knolwedge. Things don't work that quickly in the real world...

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. If they had evidence, why did they say they have none?  There where some serious allegations made and it is up to the RCMP to see if there are facts which support those allegations. If they already had evidence someone would be in custody right now, with the offer of a plea bargain in exchange for testimony.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must be due to A LACK OF EVIDENCE. You obviously have never been on the other side of the interrogation table. The first thing the cops to do after they have you dead to rights is to try and get you to squeal on everybody you know in exchange for less punishment.

If they had proof that would hold up in court, they would be all over the poor SOB who did it.

[shoop]

Hmmm, that is right. They have enough evidence to start an official investigation. Clearly they don't have anybody dead to rights ... yet.

That is ok though. You have convenienlty ignored the devastating effect on your campaign.

It is time for a long period away from power for the Liberals, ala 1984. The arrogance is appalling.

How is this for a way to deal with corruption. Fight every allegation tooth and nail, no matter how increasingly serious they become. Then when we are proven guilty (i.e. of $1.14 Million dollars by justice Gomery.) hope the country will believe us when it is time to move on.

So sorry, not this time...

Soon to be Deputy Prime Minister Peter MacKay said it best.

So it's again a sense of entitlement -- it's a feeling that they (the Liberals) can do no wrong. And even if they do, they're held to a different standard. There is a serious lack of ethical accountability within the Liberal government.

[lovecanada]

Kind of a tough position to be in. Regardless of the outcome of the investigationi this could very well be the final nail in the coffin for the Liberals.

I think your talk of a plea bargain shows a little too much "Law & Order" and "CSI" knolwedge. Things don't work that quickly in the real world...

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. If they had evidence, why did they say they have none?  There where some serious allegations made and it is up to the RCMP to see if there are facts which support those allegations. If they already had evidence someone would be in custody right now, with the offer of a plea bargain in exchange for testimony.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must be due to A LACK OF EVIDENCE. You obviously have never been on the other side of the interrogation table. The first thing the cops to do after they have you dead to rights is to try and get you to squeal on everybody you know in exchange for less punishment.

If they had proof that would hold up in court, they would be all over the poor SOB who did it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How's this for a lack of evidence?? Look at the trading in this stock on Nov 22? Paul Martin's physician owns this I think! Clearly someone knew something in advance!!

Medisys

[shoop]

Oops, double post.

[shoop]

LC,

Good post. The Honest Politician is clearly a young Liberal hack who is so blinded by personal ambition that he can't see how severly corrupt this government has become.

Honest ministers resign when there is the appearance of impropriety and don't have to be torn from office kicking and screaming. But that is forgetting the Liberals divine right to govern.

That will be an issue the RCMP looks at in this investigation.

How's this for a lack of evidence?? Look at the trading in this stock on Nov 22? Paul Martin's physician owns this I think! Clearly someone knew something in advance!!

Medisys

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[lovecanada]

LC,

Good post. The Honest Politician is clearly a young Liberal hack who is so blinded by personal ambition that he can't see how severly corrupt this government has become.

Honest ministers resign when there is the appearance of impropriety and don't have to be torn from office kicking and screaming. But that is forgetting the Liberals divine right to govern.

That will be an issue the RCMP looks at in this investigation.

How's this for a lack of evidence?? Look at the trading in this stock on Nov 22? Paul Martin's physician owns this I think! Clearly someone knew something in advance!!

Medisys

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Clearly blinded by something, uses Honest in their name, must be a Liberal Harper said today that Goodale could stay on, riding his limo, until January 23! The Liberals seriously don't get it! Culture of entitlement!

[Vancouver King]

Hmmm, that is right. They have enough evidence to start an official investigation. Clearly they don't have anybody dead to rights ... yet.

That is ok though. You have convenienlty ignored the devastating effect on your campaign.

It is time for a long period away from power for the Liberals, ala 1984. The arrogance is appalling.

How is this for a way to deal with corruption. Fight every allegation tooth and nail, no matter how increasingly serious they become. Then when we are proven guilty (i.e. of $1.14 Million dollars by justice Gomery.) hope the country will believe us when it is time to move on.

So sorry, not this time...

Soon to be Deputy Prime Minister Peter MacKay said it best.

So it's again a sense of entitlement -- it's a feeling that they (the Liberals) can do no wrong. And even if they do, they're held to a different standard. There is a serious lack of ethical accountability within the Liberal government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That distant whirring sound you hear is incumbent Liberals testing their paper shredders.

[shoop]

Maybe Warren Kinsella has it right today.

Kinsella's blog page.

The CPC and NDP are better off if Goodale stays. By focing him out Martin would show resolve and a commitment to cleaning up government. By letting him stay the story will have a longer life...

Clearly blinded by something, uses Honest in their name, must be a Liberal  Harper said today that Goodale could stay on, riding his limo, until January 23! The Liberals seriously don't get it! Culture of entitlement!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Riverwind]

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. If they had evidence, why did they say they have none?  There where some serious allegations made and it is up to the RCMP to see if there are facts which support those allegations. If they already had evidence someone would be in custody right now, with the offer of a plea bargain in exchange for testimony.

Unfortunately for the Liberals is there is enough evidence already that shows someone from finance told people in advance that there was going to be an annoucement. The only issue is whether knowledge of the announcement itself (not the contents) constitutes insider knowledge. Given how the market reacted I would say it does. If you want to be charitable to Goodale you could argue that the market reaction was unexpected and that the pre-announcements were standard operating procedure. However, professionals hired to work with sensitive financial information should have been able to predict the market reaction if this particular announcement was advertised in advance.

I was thinking of a parallel in the private sector: let's say a company is having bad third quarter and has to publish an earnings warning in Sept. A company announcing something realted to its financials in Sept can only mean one thing: less than expected earnings. In this case, even knowing the announcement is coming constitutes insider knowledge. I think Goodale is in trouble on this one.

[Montgomery Burns]

I wonder if the Liberals will fire up the old paper shredder. Rumors that Ralph Goodale is being pressured to resign and a pic of Goodale's office (scroll down a bit)

[The Honest Politician]

Hmmm, that is right. They have enough evidence to start an official investigation. Clearly they don't have anybody dead to rights ... yet.

They have ALLEGATIONS and COINCIDENCE, nothing more.

How's this for a lack of evidence?? Look at the trading in this stock on Nov 22? Paul Martin's physician owns this I think! Clearly someone knew something in advance!!

Who knew? The people who's job it is to forcast economic trends. Once it was made public that there was going to be an announcement, any economics graduate would have been able to make a guess as to which way the announcement would go, based on the economic and political indicators. You people are so ready to hang others without all of the facts.

Good post. The Honest Politician is clearly a young Liberal hack who is so blinded by personal ambition that he can't see how severly corrupt this government has become.

More pathetic Conservative insults. Grow up. I am not blinded by anything, but I will not convict people based soley on hearsay and coincidence. Are you really that type of people? For the record I was not a Liberal until I came to this site and met all you Conservatives who turned my stomach with your arrogance, hate and childish behaviour. It was only after coming here, did I make up my mind to do what ever I can to keep people like you from ruining this country. Regardless of any improprieties by the previous Liberal govt.

Honest ministers resign when there is the appearance of impropriety and don't have to be torn from office kicking and screaming. But that is forgetting the Liberals divine right to govern.

Honest people who have nothing to hide will stand tall meet allegations head on.

In this case, even knowing the announcement is coming constitutes insider knowledge. I think Goodale is in trouble on this one.

Only if the calls to alert people where made before the scheduled press conference. As soon as the press conference was scheduled it became public knowledge that there would be an announcement coming from Goodale. At which point, who phoned who, to pass on the fact there would be announcment becomes meaningless, unless the contents of the announcement where revealed. Then it is serious insider trading. But until the facts come out everything is conjecture.

[lovecanada]

You poor thing, you asked Who knew?? Well it's obvious Paul Martin's personal physician knew, I see you wouldn't post my link on that!! Give your head a shake! It's an official RCMP CRIMINAL investigation! And, the New York Stock Exchange is going to get involved. Liberals can not hide behind Gomery anymore, the bright lights are on them and even if the RCMP say they didn't find anything, the Americans are not going to let the Liberals off! Martha Stewart went to jail for much less than this. Conrad Black is facing charges, next, the Liberals! With the Liberals anti-American stance, good luck!!

By the way, you can almost smell your fear in your posts, like Paul Martin's phoney, smile!

[Kiraly]

http://tinyurl.com/77gfm

From the linked clip:

Don Drummond from the TD Bank first heard about the announcement via email, 4 hours in advance of announcement from liberal strategists. CTV quoted Drummond as saying “Alot of people seemed to know there was an announcement coming and a few people seemed to know what it was.”

CTV also reports that Richard Nesbitt, CEO TSX purchased $759,000 worth of stocks hours before the announcement and made $100,000 in profit the next day.

From the NDP website: http://www.ndp.ca/page/2561

The Facts On Goodale's Income Trust Announcement

Today, Ralph Goodale says that he clearly signaled on November 22, 2005, that an early decision was coming on income trusts and that savvy investors simply guessed which way he was moving. (CTV Newsnet, 7:30 am, December 29, 2005)

Unfortunately, the facts indicate otherwise.

FACT: As forensic accountant Al Rosen noted today, trading does not indicate a "lucky guess" - it indicates insider knowledge: "In the morning of the twenty-third, you saw quite a few of those stocks dipping and why did we have a jump around 10 or 11 on some of the dividend stocks and then why at 2:30 to 4 did you have a totally different pattern? So their explanation doesn't fit the facts." (CBC Newsworld, 7:30 am, December 29, 2005)

FACT: Goodale did not say on November 22, 2005 he would be making an announcement on income trusts the next day. He said, "I will have to come to a conclusion very shortly" but market observers like Simon Romano of Stikeman Elliott did not interpret that as a sign that an announcement was imminent and, in fact, claimed Goodale was unlikely to move up the Dec. 31 deadline for consultation. (National Post, November 23, 2005)

FACT: On November 19, 2005, the National Post reported that Goodale would not make an announcement until 2006 - regardless of an election: "The Finance Minister has targeted the end of January to issue a much-anticipated and controversial decision on the taxation of income trusts. Ralph Goodale said yesterday he hopes to release Ottawa's new policy governing the tax-friendly investment vehicles by Jan. 31. He said he would like to meet that target even though there may be an election, starting as early as next week and running until some time in January." (National Post, November 19, 2005)

FACT: On November 17, 2005 Goodale insisted that he would not be making an announcement in 2005, "It is my intention to respond very quickly after the consultation is concluded [on December 31, 2005] and whatever the political situation may be at the time." (CanWest News, November 17, 2005)

FACT: On November 23, 2005, the Broadcast News report on Goodale's announcement called it a "surprise announcement" than came "much earlier than expected." (Broadcast News, November 23, 2005)

FACT: On November 23, 2005 Goodale's own Parliamentary Assistant, John McKay, appeared on Politics with Don Newman an hour before Goodale's announcement and said that income trusts would be taxed - the opposite of what occurred.

The fact is, average investors had no idea what Goodale was going to do and may very well have been selling off income trust shares on November 23, 2005, thinking no news, or bad news, was coming.

I had no idea that John McKay said that Income Trusts would be taxed moments before Goodale's announcement. What an unfortunate mistake.

[lovecanada]

Hey supposedly HONEST, you still there or licking your whatever?

[scribblet]

http://www.mkbraaten.com/2005/12/29/ctv-pr...of-actual-leak/

This is heating up, wonder if this could be the straw that broke the camel's back and good bye Liberals.