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Are there any jokes that should be banned?


Are There any Subjects that Should be Off Limits to a Comedian?  

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6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If it's uncommon

It used to almost never get escalated past a heckler. Comedian handles heckler, show goes on.

Now it's become vogue, to go on show ending tantrums, because you were offended by a joke, yet the crowd is roaring with laughter.

Its this new entitlement, that being uncomfortable by a joke you didn't like, entitles you to march onto the stage, and demand an apology.

Again. Don't go to a comedy show, if you can't understand nuances between comedy and a serious statement.

Better yet, give your two cents, and leave.

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Just now, Perspektiv said:

 

Now it's become vogue, to go on show ending tantrums, because you were offended by a joke, yet the crowd is roaring with laughter.

 

Yes I know how you feel about political correctness.

My interest in in how the social sphere, and the arts, adapt to changing morality.

First you said that it was a phenomenon, then said it was uncommon, now you say it's in vogue.

These are different things.

If audiences are revolting against the arts that's significant.

So I go back to asking for a cite or example now.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I follow the comedy scene.

Am a huge comedy fan. I like all styles of comedy from deadpan comedians like Wendy Liebman, political like John Stewart, social commentary like Jerry Seinfeld, to insult comics like Jeffrey Ross or Lisa Lampanelli.

If you don't love comedy, and can't read between lines on an intelligent set where a joke requires you to think, you really shouldn't go to a show.

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3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So I go back to asking for a cite or example now.

Comedians having fans run up on stage used to be unthinkable. It used to be understood that they were joking. 

Heckling voiced your displeasure, but I have seen instances where people felt they were entitled to walk on stage. Some even making the news:

https://www.tmz.com/2021/11/13/comedian-affion-crockett-standup-set-interrupted-woman-karen/

Some comedians who now worry for their safety  won't do any risky jokes and opt for granola sets.

Dave Chapelle can, as he's filthy rich. If you're not, you can't afford to lose your livelihood.

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7 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Am a huge comedy fan.  

2. If you don't love comedy, and can't read between lines on an intelligent set where a joke requires you to think, you really shouldn't go to a show.

1. Me too.  I also have written and performed, for a long time.

2. I agree BUT the comedians know their audiences.  Louis CK talks about jokes going "too far", but he is listening to his audience.

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 3. 

https://www.tmz.com/2021/11/13/comedian-affion-crockett-standup-set-interrupted-woman-karen/

 4. 

Dave Chapelle can, as he's filthy rich. If you're not, you can't afford to lose your livelihood.

3. Ok I'll look. But it's not evidence of a trend even if one Karen said this.  I will say, in case it's not clear, that I don't DISAGREE with you.  I have actually had to deal with being cancelled by over sensitive people.

It's a lot more complicated and pragmatic, and transactional than people think.  All performers and complainers know the limits of their power.  

4. You are doing well by selecting specific examples.  Chapelle is successful, meaning he has a broad audience.  So does Chris Rock and Russell Peters.  It's not cynical to say that they know and assess their audiences.

 

Thanks for your points.

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Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. Me too.  I also have written and performed, for a long time.

2. I agree BUT the comedians know their audiences.  Louis CK talks about jokes going "too far", but he is listening to his audience.

3. Ok I'll look. But it's not evidence of a trend even if one Karen said this.  I will say, in case it's not clear, that I don't DISAGREE with you.  I have actually had to deal with being cancelled by over sensitive people.

It's a lot more complicated and pragmatic, and transactional than people think.  All performers and complainers know the limits of their power.  

4. You are doing well by selecting specific examples.  Chapelle is successful, meaning he has a broad audience.  So does Chris Rock and Russell Peters.  It's not cynical to say that they know and assess their audiences.

 

Thanks for your points.

Ok, so the heckler also didn't appear to be politically correct - just a straight up heckler who was offended.

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Does being offended, automatically dictate that a comedian was offensive?

Again, if Bill Maher makes a point, provides evidence to support his point, and it offends you, is he being offensive? 

'Offensive' is entirely subjective.  If you want to apply it to something outside the domain of your own personal opinions you have to be careful and precise.  Richard Pryor was offensive, most would say.  Seinfeld isn't, most would say.  In between, use your judgement.

Bill Maher isn't offensive, IMO.  I wouldn't apply this tag to his art, in general.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Bill Maher isn't offensive, IMO. 

He is incredibly offensive to some. There were recently concentrated efforts to force his show to drop him.

So who gets to make this judgement?

And if he weren't incredibly rich, and what is offensive is subjective, how could someone dictate where someone most would deem inoffensive could perform?

Chapelle's comedy by some powerful lobbyist groups is deemed as incredibly dangerous. Transphobic.

With this logic, isn't his comedy also racist, sexist and antisemitic?

If you're okay with the majority calling the shots, why is it the minority that is doing so?

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29 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 

1.  who gets to make this judgement?

2. And if he weren't incredibly rich, and what is offensive is subjective, how could someone dictate where someone most would deem inoffensive could perform?

3. Chapelle's comedy by some powerful lobbyist groups is deemed as incredibly dangerous. Transphobic.

With this logic, isn't his comedy also racist, sexist and antisemitic?

If you're okay with the majority calling the shots, why is it the minority that is doing so?

1. 2. We all get to decide.  His producers back the show, or he could self produce.

3. Chapelle isn't having trouble being seen.  I think that the money decides.

 

You're asking obvious questions.  I don't feel like I should have to explain things like this.

Inevitably, people who follow this line of questioning with me fall into believing I'm defending the status quo, not explaining it.

If you want me to defend it, I won't.  There's lots of problems with the way this works.  Suggest another way.

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Shouldn't there be a level of freedom in art that separates it from what would be obscene?

Seinfeld's Michael Richard's racist rant at the end of a set, which effectively ended his career, wasn't what comedy stands for. The consequences were swift and devastating,  in an era where LGBTQ jokes were still acceptable, no less.

Of course there needs to be a standard, or at least a red line nobody can cross. 

Unfortunately am a person who can find humor in everything. Nobody could tell me a single subject that I couldn't make funny or have seen comedians make funny.

Laughter unites, and to me there is something healthy about laughing at ourselves. 

"A little bit of sugar helps the medicine go down" like they say.

Otherwise you wind up raising a future generation of brittle narcissistic people who feel the world owes them something.

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7 hours ago, Aristides said:

It's only a joke if it is funny. If it is funny, anything goes.

Notice how Dave Chapelle is not funny to activists?

Funny, isn't a good measuring stick, as it's incredibly subjective. 

Also, insults are highly subjective, as I have seen hilarious comedian roasts. 

I make racial jokes all the time, and have broken the ice on touchy subjects due to it. 

My wife is no different. She will make racial jokes, but can pull it off as you wouldn't expect those words to come from her Asian mouth.

Probably why Ali Wong sells out her shows.

Comedy is about context.

Someone without common sense and a capacity to read between lines should be banned from comedy shows.

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53 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Notice how Dave Chapelle is not funny to activists?

2. Someone without common sense and a capacity to read between lines should be banned from comedy shows.

1. His old stuff is plenty funny.  But who wants to listen to a lecture on what is ok and what is not ?  It's interesting but not funny, how could it be.  There is "woke" comedy that is the flip side of that too - also not funny.
2. Cancel culture again... We don't yet have an example of a "wokie" cancelling a show in progress btw, but lots of examples of Karens and people just walking out...

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

His old stuff is plenty funny

In your opinion. I think he's incredibly thoughtful, and his jokes have more depth to them. That's the beauty of how subjective that comedy is. As an artist myself, evolution is part of your growth.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

We don't yet have an example

That's because we have police, security that would stop the attempt. You can picket, harass people attending a show, threaten the host, but again--there are laws that will protect such people. But to say that the attempt has never occurred, is ridiculous.

The difference, is now people have social media, and other avenues, to dox, threaten and attempt to cancel artists with views they don't like. Very different from dangerous views.

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4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Notice how Dave Chapelle is not funny to activists?

Funny, isn't a good measuring stick, as it's incredibly subjective. 

Also, insults are highly subjective, as I have seen hilarious comedian roasts. 

I make racial jokes all the time, and have broken the ice on touchy subjects due to it. 

My wife is no different. She will make racial jokes, but can pull it off as you wouldn't expect those words to come from her Asian mouth.

Probably why Ali Wong sells out her shows.

Comedy is about context.

Someone without common sense and a capacity to read between lines should be banned from comedy shows.

It depends who you are joking with and it depends if they will give as good as they get. 

There is an old aviation joke. A Lufthansa flight was having a gate delay in Frankfurt. Eventually ATC called wanting to know when the gate would be open for an aircraft that was waiting. The crew said they were trying to locate a passenger. All of a sudden an anonymous voice on the radio said, "did you check the ovens". Poor taste yes, but funnier than hell.  

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8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

1. In your opinion. I think he's incredibly thoughtful, and his jokes have more depth to them. That's the beauty of how subjective that comedy is. As an artist myself, evolution is part of your growth.

 

2. The difference, is now people have social media, and other avenues, to dox, threaten and attempt to cancel artists with views they don't like. Very different from dangerous views.

1. Yes, his stand-up is filled with long preachy screeds now.  Just like woke people lecturing us.

2. No different from the past when we had blacklists, business groups and community groups to do it.  Even laws.  Go look up Lenny Bruce.

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45 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Just like woke people lecturing us.

One being unacceptable, and the other deemed as "dangerous".

Just maybe his shows sell out, because an overwhelming amount of people including myself, agree with a lot of what he says.

46 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No different

Being doxed and harassed online is different.

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2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

1. One being unacceptable, and the other deemed as "dangerous".

2. Just maybe his shows sell out, because an overwhelming amount of people including myself, agree with a lot of what he says.

 

1. To each his own.  You prefer Chapelle.  Me, I prefer neither.

2. There are lots of people on both sides.

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5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

1. If more people respected that notion, comedians would still be pushing envelopes vs trying to sound the same.

2. One side is given a megaphone.

1. I don't think you can say that for sure.  A lot of us just think it's not funny to make fun of trans people, gays and so on.
2. Or maybe just people have moved on from those kind of jokes.  Do you think people don't make racist jokes on stage anymore is because they're afraid to ?  That people are dying for that humour ?  I don't think so.

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51 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

A lot of us just think it's not funny to make fun of trans people, gays and so on.

I would disagree. Trans jokes in proper context to me, are funny. 

Same with gay jokes. Beauty of comedy. Its subjective. 

I think if someone can't make fun of themselves, they shouldn't be assessing what is or isn't funny. 

This "its only funny if I approve of it" entitlement, is precisely why so many turn out to Chapelle's shows. 

Many are also sick and tired of being told what is funny or not.

A Chapelle show ticket could get you grilled for how disgusting that it is, yet a seedy web search history is a ok. 

58 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Or maybe just people have moved on from those kind of jokes.

Again, Chapelle's shows popularity on Netflix, tells me they have not.

I just like him, find humor in the predicament in being stuck in the wrong body. I found it hilarious when he illustrated this, by having you imagining his black self being Chinese and stuck in a black man's body.

"But this is how I feel inside!" with the perfect Chinese accent had me in stitches. 

Many Chinese people were in the crowd, and nobody from this demographic felt like the world stopped from the playful jab.

He's transphobic, why isn't he racist too?

Many trans people can poke fun of themselves. Again, if one cannot, its not my job to coddle them. Certainly shouldn't be a comedians.

I have laughed at so many black jokes, Canadian jokes and men jokes and am doing just fine. 

Some people just love comedy and appreciate an artform where artists are unafraid to experiment.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you think people don't make racist jokes on stage anymore

You clearly haven't seen Andrew Schultz.

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