"Travel from Wuhan is not a problem for our system" (Lab leak: "most likely origin", FBI)

[myata]

21 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

We may never know.

Under two conditions: 1) insider or any other relevant non-scientific data exists; and b) the mysterious animal chain never found with sufficient factual confidence we will know with some certainty eventually. I'll take the evidence for an incident at a totalitarian lab against it just happened randomly too bad every time.

And if it doesn't exist or isnt' sufficiently convincing we will know too. In that case, sure.

Edited March 3, 2023 by myata

[myata]

20 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

There could have been numerous outbreaks of Covid before. Who would notice some old people dying of pneumonia in China? 

Really, a host of researchers looking for a mysterious transmission chain that may or may not have existed, could not find traces of a slowly developing infection in a human community in this century? Again it's all about the balance of probabilities. If one piece of evidence exists that related research has been conducted at that facility, that one coincidence would outweigh all hypothetical calculations. Because it exists, happened and we know that will happen again, inevitably.

[WestCanMan]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:28 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Is there new evidence supporting the lab leak hypothesis? I am as keen to criticize the PRC as the next man but facts are needed. Two recent scientific papers I came across suggested the wet market theory was more plausible. 

It's known that the lab was doing GOF research on that virus to make it more transmissible among humans.

Fauci and Dr Paul talked about while Fauci was under oat:. https://nypost.com/2021/11/04/rand-paul-calls-on-fauci-to-resign-over-gain-of-function-research/

Quote

The heated back-and-forth came two weeks after the NIH admitted to funding gain-of-function researchon bat coronaviruses at China’s Wuhan lab, despite Fauci repeatedly insisting to Congress that no such thing happened.

Fauci even approved funding for that operation, which was likely illegal, depending on whether or not the definition of GOF includes 'increased transmissibility'. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/u-s-intel-report-identified-3-wuhan-lab-researchers-who-n1268327

Quote

A U.S. intelligence report identified three researchers at a Wuhan lab who sought treatment at a hospital after falling ill in November 2019, a source familiar with the matter tells NBC News.

And just remember, the Chinese gov't never allowed investigators anywhere near the lab. "You can investigate anywhere you want, just not right there, where it most likely came from."

TBH, the NIH can admit to anything, that doesn't make the Wuhan lab guilty of it, and and intelligence reprt can say anything it wants to, again that doesn't make the Chinese lab 'guilty'. This 'settles' nothing. BUT, the lab leak theory is just far more likely. 

Common sense dictates...

"Shocks the internet"?

The only thing even remotely shocking about what he said is that it came from a liberal. Conservatives had been saying that since the beginning. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by WestCanMan

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

It's known that the lab was doing GOF research on that virus to make it more transmissible among humans.

Fauci and Dr Paul talked about while Fauci was under oat:. https://nypost.com/2021/11/04/rand-paul-calls-on-fauci-to-resign-over-gain-of-function-research/

Fauci even approved funding for that operation, which was likely illegal, depending on whether or not the definition of GOF includes 'increased transmissibility'. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/u-s-intel-report-identified-3-wuhan-lab-researchers-who-n1268327

And just remember, the Chinese gov't never allowed investigators anywhere near the lab. "You can investigate anywhere you want, just not right there, where it most likely came from."

TBH, the NIH can admit to anything, that doesn't make the Wuhan lab guilty of it, and and intelligence reprt can say anything it wants to, again that doesn't make the Chinese lab 'guilty'. This 'settles' nothing. BUT, the lab leak theory is just far more likely. 

Common sense dictates.

Common sense isn’t science. The PRC is secretive about everything so that proves nothing. Give me the peer-reviewed articles that change the debate. The lab leak theory is fine but it needs stronger recent evidence than what has been shown so far. 
 

 

 

[myata]

If the above information is verified and confirmed, on the balance of probabilities that's all the information needed for an informed conclusion, short of convincing factual evidence: an animal population carrying new strand of coronavirus with extremely high transmission in humans that existed before late fall of 2019, obviously.

No number of articles with thousands of researchers juggling millions of random probabilities answers a simple question: what has actually transpired? Totalitarian lab f@kup that was working with similar agents? Any day.

[myata]

And even more important point here: we just had another opportunity to observe how modern societies can be controlled by power interests, information, political, governments. It went way beyond scientific then rational arguments to ideology / religion style following and on to ideological labeling ("antivaxxers") and at times, witchhunt ("misogynists" etc) all the way to outrageous government overreach. It wasn't so far as we wanted to believe, right at arm's reach.

So how likely could it be that someone powerful contributed to a totalitarian lab failure in the interests of pure science by contributing funding, promoting impact and interest, status and standing in the research community, and when the messup happened, aimed all their power at diverting the attention to other causes, holy vaccination quests, mandating and ordering, animal origin theory, suppressing of concerns, character assassination of opponents you name it?

This is no conspiracy theory. I'm not saying that's what happened. Is it possible though? No question, we just saw that it's very well possible and right within the reach.

Next, how likely it is, given the information available to us: how do we come up with a measure?

And what has actually happened, in this reality: how do we know?

Edited March 4, 2023 by myata

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Common sense isn’t science. The PRC is secretive about everything so that proves nothing. Give me the peer-reviewed articles that change the debate. The lab leak theory is fine but it needs stronger recent evidence than what has been shown so far. 

I doubt that this will ever be considered fully settled in our time. It's too political in nature, and leftist politicians will never run so short on lies or media influence that they can't create at least some doubt in the general populace.

All that's really up for debate is whether or not banning debate about the BSL4 lab as a possible/likely source of covid was somehow necessary to hep fight against covid, or if it was just an unnecessary attack against free speech by governments, social media giants and media shills who made abuse of power their go-to option during covid.

The FBI considers the lab to be the most likely source, and they have for a while now. Take that to mean "It's not considered to be batshit crazy Qanon garbage/Russian disinformation anymore."

It never should have been.  

This whole covid scenario is a really sad wake-up call about just how quickly our "free country" can go fascist, and how many people will gleefully follow along. 

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, myata said:

And even more important point here: we just had another opportunity to observe how modern societies can be controlled by power interests, information, political, governments.

Seems to me in the face of several mounting global issues we've been treated to more opportunities to see how little control or effect these have at controlling anything that's happening around them.  At best these so-called cabals that are believed to be causing/profiting from all the misfortune are really little more than schools of opportunistic piranha who'll just as soon take a bite out of one another if needs be. Most seem as confused as anyone else about what to do.

[myata]

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

At best these so-called cabals that are believed to be causing/profiting from all the misfortune are really little more than schools of opportunistic piranha

Well, they managed something can't deny that. Walking in a street in the year two, taking in, observing it live.