Half of CPC MPs are "Religious Conservatives"

[normanchateau]

This summer the Vancouver Sun published an article in which it was estimated that half of all CPC MPs are "religious conservatives". This compares with approximately 20% of all Canadians who fit the "religious conservative" label, according to Ipsos-Reid. Lifesite, an anti-abortion website published this story then quoted former President of Focus on the Family and anti-abortionist Darrel Reid, the Richmond, British Columbia, CPC candidate in the 2006 federal election. Reid hopes to defeat the Liberal MP in Richmond but his capture of the CPC nomination resulted in the resignation of social moderates in the Richmond CPC constituency association. Ironically, Lifesite quotes Reid, an anti-abortionist who also opposes stem cell research even if it will save lives, as condemning the media for describing religious conservatives as "prolife fanatics and religious fundamentalists." With CPC moving even further to the right in socially liberal British Columbia with candidates like Reid, BC CPC MPs will fall like dominoes.

Here's the Lifesite link:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/05072804.html

[cybercoma]

welcome back bigdude.

[shoop]

Thanks for that cc. No way I am wasting my time responding to some loser who gets banned and sneaks back onto the board.

welcome back bigdude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[cybercoma]

speculation, but his posting style is oddly familiar.

[wellandboy]

The interesting part of this article is the last paragragh; which compares Canada's Conservatives to those in other countries:

"Contrary to the Sun’s paranoia surrounding religious conservatism in politics, law professor and expatriate James Allan pointed out earlier this month that Canada’s Tories are nowhere near as conservative in policy as conservative counterparts throughout the world. “Take today's Tories and Stephen Harper out of Canada and plunk them in New Zealand and they would be to the left of Helen Clark's Labour government,” he said, as reported by the National Post."

Another feeble attempt to paint the CPC as ultra right wing religious fanatics that has failed.

As the CPC are calmly unveiling policy, the Liberals poorly prepared are once again going into attack mode. If the CPC sticks to this strategy up to Christmas the Liberals will be rabid. The Liberal initiated negative campaigning will begin in earnest as Canada goes into the holidays. This is getting interesting. Very interesting.

[err]

Thanks for that cc. No way I am wasting my time responding to some loser who gets banned and sneaks back onto the board.

Don't get sand in your eyes.... What's the matter... don't you have a response....

It seems a very familiar strategy when someone puts up a good post that reflects the general public sentiment... and you don't agree with it... Stick your head in the sand....

This post basically says the same thing that Kim Campbell said yesterday... another post that you again wouldn't address the same issue....

[scribblet]

The interesting part of this article is the last paragragh; which compares Canada's Conservatives to those in other countries:

"Contrary to the Sun’s paranoia surrounding religious conservatism in politics, law professor and expatriate James Allan pointed out earlier this month that Canada’s Tories are nowhere near as conservative in policy as conservative counterparts throughout the world. “Take today's Tories and Stephen Harper out of Canada and plunk them in New Zealand and they would be to the left of Helen Clark's Labour government,” he said, as reported by the National Post."

Another feeble attempt to paint the CPC as ultra right wing religious fanatics that has failed.

As the CPC are calmly unveiling policy, the Liberals poorly prepared are once again going into attack mode. If the CPC sticks to this strategy up to Christmas the Liberals will be rabid. The Liberal initiated negative campaigning will begin in earnest as Canada goes into the holidays. This is getting interesting. Very interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you'll find that as the CPC reveal more policy and pick up in the polls, you'll see more of these type of attacks. They can't paint Harper as 'scary' any more, so have to resort to other underhanded methods of charactizing Harper and the CPC.

Obviously I'm conservative, but I'm no religious fundamentalist, I've been involved in 3 ridings over the years, and none I knew were 'religious fundamentalists'. The CPC has a some sure they do, so do the liberals. Harper maybe religious but he doesn't wear it on his sleeve nor does he push it, and he has been successful at curbing some of the more strident ones. Randy White isn't running this time BTW.

Actually I'd go so far as to say that people who use this bogeyman of 'ooo he's scary he's a Christian' or whatever, are showing a broad streak of intolerance, something liberals usually profess not to have. Lets hope these type of posters stick to discussing actual policy and platform, and don't bring in the 'evil Christian bogeyman' etc. Or at least, they can start a separate thread on it.

[cybercoma]

Are the Sikhs in the NDP and Liberal parties "religious fundamentalists" as well? Give me a break.

[shoop]

err,

I clearly don't agree with you but at least you generally abide by the rules of the board. When I can understand what you mean? Sand in my eye wtf?

I responded to the Kim Campbell comment very clearly. She is sad and was a terrible leader. Her comments mean nothing and are already off the radar.

Don't get sand in your eyes.... What's the matter... don't you have a response....

It seems a very familiar strategy when someone puts up a good post that reflects the general public sentiment... and you don't agree with it...  Stick your head in the sand....

This post basically says the same thing that Kim Campbell said yesterday... another post that you again wouldn't address the same issue....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Black Dog]

Actually I'd go so far as to say that people who use this bogeyman of 'ooo he's scary he's a Christian' or whatever, are showing a broad streak of intolerance, something liberals usually profess not to have.

What a bunch of crap. "Wahhh, you'r eintolerant of my intolerance!!" Just so you know, the prevailing view among small-l liberals is that people are entitled to their personal beliefs, but those beliefs should not be reflected in public policy.

[politika]

This summer the Vancouver Sun published an article in which it was estimated that half of all CPC MPs are "religious conservatives".  This compares with approximately 20% of all Canadians who fit the "religious conservative" label, according to Ipsos-Reid.  Lifesite, an anti-abortion website published this story then quoted former President of Focus on the Family and anti-abortionist Darrel Reid, the Richmond, British Columbia, CPC candidate in the 2006 federal election. Reid hopes to defeat the Liberal MP in Richmond but his capture of the CPC nomination resulted in the resignation of social moderates in the Richmond CPC constituency association. Ironically, Lifesite quotes Reid, an anti-abortionist who also opposes stem cell research even if it will save lives, as condemning the media for describing religious conservatives as "prolife fanatics and religious fundamentalists." With CPC moving even further to the right in socially liberal British Columbia with candidates like Reid, BC CPC MPs will fall like dominoes.

Here's the Lifesite link:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/05072804.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whats wrong with religion?

[normanchateau]

Thanks for that cc. No way I am wasting my time responding to some loser who gets banned and sneaks back onto the board.

welcome back bigdude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who's bigdude? When did he get banned? Did he get banned for pointing out that half of all CPC MPs are religious conservatives even though only 20% of Canadians are religious conservatives? Do you think those figures aren't accurate? Those figures appeared in the Vancouver Sun, a newspaper which supported Harper in 2004. Why does CPC have candidates like Darrel Reid running in a suburb of liberal Vancouver? Why do CPC supporters get upset about being portrayed as religious conservatives? Other than the Christian Heritage Party of Canada, no other Canadian political party is so dominated by religious conservatives.

[sharkman]

Maybe half of CPCs are religious and the other half are not, big deal. I've met many christians who are definitely not conservative, it's no scale to predict their leanings. I'll bet a big portion of the Liberal MPs are religious too, but the Vancouver Sun doesn't worry about them.

But the use of phrases like bible thumpers, religious zealots, gay bashers and lesbian haters is concerning, and Norman has used these in describing Christians. I object to these hateful descriptions and think Norman should grow some of this tolerance if he's so concerned about it in the CPC.

Care to respond Norman, or are you going to ignore this as you have other comments?

Edited December 2, 2005 by sharkman

[Leafless]

normanchateau

Concerning "Religious Conservatives"

I wonder when a poll will be conducted to see how many homosexuals and secularist there are in the Liberal Party.

It should be noted there are many more Christians in Canada then there are homosexuals or secularist.

A post of this type could be seen as anti-Christian hate propaganda.

I'd rather see Christians in the Consrvative Party any day.

[politika]

normanchateau

Concerning "Religious Conservatives"

I wonder when a poll will be conducted to see how many homosexuals and secularist there are in the Liberal Party.

It should be noted there are many more Christians in Canada then there are homosexuals or secularist.

A post of this type could be seen as anti-Christian hate propaganda.

I'd rather see Christians in the Consrvative Party any day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't say it better myself

[normanchateau]

A post of this type could be seen as anti-Christian hate propaganda.

Sorry you interpreted my comments as anti-Christian. That was not my intent. My focus was on religious conservatives, not Christians. Most Canadian Christians are not religious conservatives. I think the Ipsos-Reid poll made that clear.

I know of quite a few religious conservatives in Canada who are Sikh or Muslim or Jewish.

The leaders of all four major Canadian political parties are Christians so clearly that's not even an issue. The issue is religious conservatives, NOT Christians.

[scribblet]

Maybe half of CPCs are religious and the other half are not, big deal.  I've met many christians who are definitely not conservative, it's no scale to predict their leanings.  I'll bet a big portion of the Liberal MPs are religious too, but the Vancouver Sun doesn't worry about them.

But the use of phrases like bible thumpers, religious zealots, gay bashers and lesbian haters is concerning, and Norman has used these in describing Christians.  I object to these hateful descriptions and think Norman should grow some of this tolerance if he's so concerned about it in the CPC.

Care to respond Norman, or are you going to ignore this as you have other comments?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent response, repetitive comments like that are a bit worrisome, indeed, borders on intolerance.

[sharkman]

Maybe half of CPCs are religious and the other half are not, big deal.  I've met many christians who are definitely not conservative, it's no scale to predict their leanings.  I'll bet a big portion of the Liberal MPs are religious too, but the Vancouver Sun doesn't worry about them.

But the use of phrases like bible thumpers, religious zealots, gay bashers and lesbian haters is concerning, and Norman has used these in describing Christians.  I object to these hateful descriptions and think Norman should grow some of this tolerance if he's so concerned about it in the CPC.

Care to respond Norman, or are you going to ignore this as you have other comments?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent response, repetitive comments like that are a bit worrisome, indeed, borders on intolerance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been watching Norman's characterizations of Christians, and the weight of all of his previous posts does not match up with his most recent explanation above. But it's good to at least be aware of his intolerance.

[Black Dog]

Whats wrong with religion?

Nothing. In it's place.

But the use of phrases like bible thumpers, religious zealots, gay bashers and lesbian haters is concerning, and Norman has used these in describing Christians.

Just to be clear: has he described all Christians in that fashion? Or is he referring specifically to a certain subset of Christians?

[sharkman]

But the use of phrases like bible thumpers, religious zealots, gay bashers and lesbian haters is concerning, and Norman has used these in describing Christians.

Just to be clear: has he described all Christians in that fashion? Or is he referring specifically to a certain subset of Christians?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only after he was challenged on it did he bother to offer a distinction between christians he's okay with versus the conservative kind it's okay to describe using the above characterizations.

[Leader Circle]

This summer the Vancouver Sun published an article in which it was estimated that half of all CPC MPs are "religious conservatives".  This compares with approximately 20% of all Canadians who fit the "religious conservative" label, according to Ipsos-Reid.  Lifesite, an anti-abortion website published this story then quoted former President of Focus on the Family and anti-abortionist Darrel Reid, the Richmond, British Columbia, CPC candidate in the 2006 federal election. Reid hopes to defeat the Liberal MP in Richmond but his capture of the CPC nomination resulted in the resignation of social moderates in the Richmond CPC constituency association. Ironically, Lifesite quotes Reid, an anti-abortionist who also opposes stem cell research even if it will save lives, as condemning the media for describing religious conservatives as "prolife fanatics and religious fundamentalists." With CPC moving even further to the right in socially liberal British Columbia with candidates like Reid, BC CPC MPs will fall like dominoes.

Here's the Lifesite link:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/05072804.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome back bigdude!

Didn't realize you frequented gay website for your ammunition!!!

[Black Dog]

Welcome back bigdude!

Didn't realize you frequented gay website for your ammunition!!!

LifeSite is a gay web site?

Who Produces LifeSite?

The site is affiliated with Interim Publishing and is also closely associated with Campaign Life Coalition (CLC), both organizations being headquartered in Toronto, Canada. LifeSite networks regularly with leaders and other organizations around the world.

Interim Publishing, founded in 1983, produces The Interim, Canada's national life and family newspaper and other publications related to life and family issues.

Campaign Life Coalition, founded in 1978, has been one of the first pro-life organizations to emphasize the international dimension of attacks on life and family. Along with a couple of other groups it pioneered pro-life lobbying at United Nations conferences. CLC president, Jim Hughes, is currently also vice-president of the International Right to Life Federation.

Only after he was challenged on it did he bother to offer a distinction between christians he's okay with versus the conservative kind it's okay to describe using the above characterizations.

Actually, in his first post, he used the phrase "religious conservatives", which would, to me, indicate he's talking about religous, conservative members of the Conservative party, not Christians as a whole.

A post of this type could be seen as anti-Christian hate propaganda.

You know, I've no problem with the argument that speech should not be criminalized, but it seems hypocritical for conservatives to use the argument that labelling speech as "hate speech" is a dangerous infringement on freedom of speech on he one hand, and then hurl accusations of hate speech on the other.

[sharkman]

Here are the comments in which Norman used the terms in question:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/index.p...opic=4296&st=45

Of course I favour freedom of religion and that includes defending the freedom of Harper and his supporters to be intolerant and hate lesbians if that's what their religion preaches. But the irrational fear that religious people will be arrested for hating gays

is one which seems to be unique to the religious zealots and Bible thumpers surrounding Harper and his party. The Bible already says hateful things about other ethnic groups and religions but Harper and the Bible thumpers don't seem to have irrational fears about being arrested for preaching on those issues. (/quote)

Nowhere here does Norman clarify a distinction between the 2 kinds of his religious types in using the term bible thumpers. Never mind the swipe he took at the Bible and ignored me when I challenged him on it.

Further, nowhere did he use the term religious conservatives and one is left to assume from his comments that he feels all religious people are the same. Personally, I don't lose any sleep over his comments, but they are what they are. Trying to reverse himself after the fact shows he knows he stepped over a line.

[Leader Circle]

Most of the gay & lesbian activists would prefer to see christians punished for the persecution they have gotten over the years. They need someone to blame and they pick christians, because they have been the biggest protestors to the gay movement!

It is going to get tough to practice religious freedom soon, especially after the ruling from BC for the lesbians against the KoC.

We are headed down the road to ruin, just like the Bible predicts.

It's sad that bigdude/norm would make a case against the Conservatives because they allow christians in their midst.(Oh the horror!)

What can you expect from someone without a soul?

[Black Dog]

Nowhere here does Norman clarify a distinction between the 2 kinds of his religious types in using the term bible thumpers. Never mind the swipe he took at the Bible and ignored me when I challenged him on it.

Actually he does: he specifically mentions the "religious zealots and Bible thumpers surrounding Harper and his party."

Not Christians in general.