Borders, Steyn, Carlson, Coulter vs Biden, Titanic, 747

[August1991]

Bump.

[WestCanMan]

On 7/21/2022 at 5:49 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Nations are a newish construct.  

Officially recognizing borders has gone a long way to creating peace.

We will probably never have peace as long as we have religion, and of course when there's hunger there's always war, but we're definitely better off than we were anywhere from 4000 - 200 years ago. 

[Rebound]

On 7/21/2022 at 10:25 AM, sharkman said:

The American idea was equality.  Freedom of religion.  Equality under the law.  Free speech.  The right to protect yourself with guns.  Biden stands for none of this.  None of it.  Good thing that the SCOTUS now does.

People get way too philosophical about this and over think it.  

Equality was not the original idea of America. Slavery was written into the U.S. Constitution. The man who wrote the phrase, “All men are created equal” owned 500 slaves. The right to vote was limited to property owning white males. 
The original idea of America was democracy.  America was the first country to try democracy.  Read Tocqueville.  He was a Frenchman who was intensely curious about whether this experiment in democracy could work, or if only the noble bred could run a nation. 
 

I’m not trying to put down America’s founding fathers. The way I see it, they moved the ball way, way forward.  When you gain 40 yards on a play, you don’t criticize that a goal wasn’t scored. They paved the way towards equality, but their vision of equality definitely had a limited scope. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Rebound

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

Equality was not the original idea of America. Slavery was written into the U.S. Constitution. The man who wrote the phrase, “All men are created equal” owned 500 slaves. The right to vote was limited to property owning white males. 
The original idea of America was democracy.  America was the first country to try democracy.  Read Tocqueville.  He was a Frenchman who was intensely curious about whether this experiment in democracy could work, or if only the noble bred could run a nation. 
 

I’m not trying to put down America’s founding fathers. The way I see it, they moved the ball way, way forward.  When you gain 40 yards on a play, you don’t criticize that a goal wasn’t scored. They paved the way towards equality, but their vision of equality definitely had a limited scope. 

The Greeks tried democracy long before America. And the Native Americans were largely democratic as well.

NA are credited with contributing ideas for the American democracy.

[Rebound]

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The Greeks tried democracy long before America. And the Native Americans were largely democratic as well.

NA are credited with contributing ideas for the American democracy.

No, Greek democracy was in fact very different, as was Native American democracy.  Specifically, as our friend Toqueville pointed out, democracy had never been attempted before on a scale as large as the United States.  Greek democracy applied only to city-states, which weren’t nearly as large as the United States. And, as we all know, Ancient Greek democracy failed: it is no more. 

[robosmith]

11 minutes ago, Rebound said:

No, Greek democracy was in fact very different, as was Native American democracy.  Specifically, as our friend Toqueville pointed out, democracy had never been attempted before on a scale as large as the United States.  Greek democracy applied only to city-states, which weren’t nearly as large as the United States. And, as we all know, Ancient Greek democracy failed: it is no more. 

Point is, democracy was not invented by the United States. Probably not even perfected. Remains to be seen, whether an ambitious orange blob can destroy it.

[August1991]

On 10/9/2023 at 3:38 AM, WestCanMan said:

Officially recognizing borders has gone a long way to creating peace.

We will probably never have peace as long as we have religion, and of course when there's hunger there's always war, but we're definitely better off than we were anywhere from 4000 - 200 years ago. 

I reckon that in this 21st century, we have to understand better the idea of "border".

In 17th century Europe, borders were defined by religion.

====

Let me make my point plain: I prefer a world of peace, with opposing forces in settled stability.

Like after 1648, and after 1815 - Vienna. After 1945 - Potsdam and Yalta.

We Westerners badly managed the 1990 revolt. The Europeans did better in 1848.

Edited October 11, 2023 by August1991