Best Response to Poutine & Xi: Negotiate but Ignore them both -Problem?

[August1991]

Xi was born in 1953. Putin was born in 1954.

As Steve Jobs famously said, death is the ultimate change agent.

Unlike ideologies like centralised leftist socialism, fascism and Soviet Communism, neither man is a long-term threat to western civilised society.

====

Kennedy, Eisenhower, Nixon were correct to fight in Korea and Vietnam. The West won.

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Our far bigger problem now is bringing several billion people - every generation - into the next modern world.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by August1991

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Our far bigger problem now is bringing several billion people into the modern world.

the problem is not bringing enough people into the modern world

declining and aging populations is the issue

[August1991]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the problem is not bringing enough people into the modern world

declining and aging populations is the issue

The world does not lack for children.

It lacks educated children.

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A child is not born with the knowledge to tie a shoe lace, or take a derivative.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by August1991

[Yzermandius19]

13 minutes ago, August1991 said:

The world does not lack for children.

It lacks educated children.

=====

A child is not born with the knowledge to tie a shoe lace, or take a derivative.

the developed world lacks children and is well under replacement rate

meanwhile the largest generation ever is going into mass retirement without enough adults to pick up the slack

education is not the issue, the demographic pyramid inverting is though

you were right fifty years ago

but the demographic situation has changed massively during that time

and now you couldn't be more wrong

try to keep up

Edited July 19, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[August1991]

Yzermandius,

By most estimates, the current world population is around 8 billion. It will peak around 10 billion in the next two decades or so - around 2050. Then, it will decline.

True, demography is an impossible game.

=====

At issue, who will these people be in 2070 or so. (Well, I'll be dead.)

What to say - demography? I think of myself today, now. I am a genetic result of four ignorant grandparents.

Yet, I can read read and write. And I'm not bad at simple calculus.

[Yzermandius19]

18 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Yzermandius,

By most estimates, the current world population is around 8 billion. It will peak around 10 billion in the next two decades or so - around 2050. Then, it will decline.

it will peak prior to 10 billion

that isn't an issue

the aging and decline of the population will be a vastly bigger issue

and it is already a problem today and will impact the economy for decades in a negative way

with baby boomers entering mass retirement and nowhere near enough people to replace them

Gen X is too small and didn't have enough Gen Z kids

and the Baby Boomers didn't have enough Millennial kids either

Edited July 19, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[athos]

Putin called the western idea of a "golden billion" neocolonialist and racist.

The idea of complete western domination by the "golden billion" is racist and neo-colonial, which divides people into first-class and second-class, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday, speaking at the Strong Ideas for a New Time forum.

"The model of western total domination, so called golden billions is unfair. Why would this 'golden billion' of all the population on the globe dominate everyone and impose their rules of behavior? Based on the illusion of exceptionalism, this model divides nations into first-class and second-class nations, so it is essentially racist and neo-colonial, while the globalist, allegedly liberal ideology that is at its base increasingly takes on the features of totalitarianism, hinders creative search and free historical creativity. , the Russian president emphasized.

According to Putin, one gets the impression that the West simply cannot offer the world a model of the future.

"Of course, this 'golden billion' became gold for a reason. She has achieved a lot. But not only did it occupy such positions thanks to some implemented ideas, but it largely occupied its positions by robbing other nations: in Asia, and in Africa," the head of state emphasized, "It really was like that. Look how India has been robbed”.

Therefore, continued the Russian president, today the "golden billion" elites are panic-kingly afraid that other world centers can present their visions of global development.

[Yzermandius19]

39 minutes ago, athos said:

Putin called the western idea of a "golden billion" neocolonialist and racist.

The idea of complete western domination by the "golden billion" is racist and neo-colonial, which divides people into first-class and second-class, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday, speaking at the Strong Ideas for a New Time forum.

"The model of western total domination, so called golden billions is unfair. Why would this 'golden billion' of all the population on the globe dominate everyone and impose their rules of behavior? Based on the illusion of exceptionalism, this model divides nations into first-class and second-class nations, so it is essentially racist and neo-colonial, while the globalist, allegedly liberal ideology that is at its base increasingly takes on the features of totalitarianism, hinders creative search and free historical creativity. , the Russian president emphasized.

According to Putin, one gets the impression that the West simply cannot offer the world a model of the future.

"Of course, this 'golden billion' became gold for a reason. She has achieved a lot. But not only did it occupy such positions thanks to some implemented ideas, but it largely occupied its positions by robbing other nations: in Asia, and in Africa," the head of state emphasized, "It really was like that. Look how India has been robbed”.

Therefore, continued the Russian president, today the "golden billion" elites are panic-kingly afraid that other world centers can present their visions of global development.

cultural relativism is a helluva a drug

some places are better than others

that's not racist or colonialism

that's reality

the achievements of the west were in spite of exploitation

one of the key reasons for their success was they were the least exploitative

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

cultural relativism is a helluva a drug

some places are better than others

that's not racist or colonialism

that's reality

the achievements of the west were in spite of exploitation

one of the key reasons for their success was they were the least exploitative

Hmmm...

Exploitation of Africa.

Exploitation of India.

Exploitation of South America.

"least exploitative"? Hardly.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Nationalist

[Yzermandius19]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Hmmm...

Exploitation of Africa.

Exploitation of India.

Exploitation of South America.

"least exploitative"? Hardly.

Africa, India and South America are all more exploitative

that's why the Europeans were able to exploit them in the first place

[Nationalist]

47 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Africa, India and South America are all more exploitative

that's why the Europeans were able to exploit them in the first place

Hmmm...Not sure I'm buyin' that one.

[Yzermandius19]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Hmmm...Not sure I'm buyin' that one.

you would if you knew history

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you would if you knew history

Ya...good grief you're full of yourself.

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Ya...good grief you're full of yourself.

successful nations didn't become or remain successful through exploitation

they out competed other nations by being less exploitative than they were

and in this case you have a more exploitative nation condemning less exploitative nations for being exploitative

typical Russian propaganda throwing stones from a glass house

Edited July 22, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[athos]

The British Empire and their colonies were founded on the assumption of the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race as well as the extermination of millions of indigenous peoples and the exploitation of enslaved millions black Africans.
The worst kind of British racism has been manifested through the genocidal colonial racism that has destroyed many human lives and civilizations.

[Yzermandius19]

3 hours ago, athos said:

The British Empire and their colonies were founded on the assumption of the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race as well as the extermination of millions of indigenous peoples and the exploitation of enslaved millions black Africans.
The worst kind of British racism has been manifested through the genocidal colonial racism that has destroyed many human lives and civilizations.

British isn't a race or a place

it's a system of government

and a system of government that was far less exploitative than the alternatives

it is no coincidence that former British colonies are better off than the former colonies of other Empires or places that were never colonized

the British were the first to ban slavery and they forced others to ban it too

the Africans and Indigenous enslaved each other all the time

no one did more to free the slaves and curb the worldwide slave trade than Western Civilization

the British were the light of civilization, though far from perfect, no one was better until America surpassed them

the idea that the west was built on exploitation and if the world follows a non-western model that it would be less exploitative

that is total horseshit, the opposite is the case

Edited July 22, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Nationalist]

11 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

successful nations didn't become or remain successful through exploitation

they out competed other nations by being less exploitative than they were

and in this case you have a more exploitative nation condemning less exploitative nations for being exploitative

typical Russian propaganda throwing stones from a glass house

You can say it all you like...but nobody will buy it. And you insinuation that I'm some sort of Russian stooge is...insulting to say the least.

So have a nice weekend and don't forget to admire yourself in every mirror you come across...

[Yzermandius19]

10 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You can say it all you like...but nobody will buy it. And you insinuation that I'm some sort of Russian stooge is...insulting to say the least.

So have a nice weekend and don't forget to admire yourself in every mirror you come across...

I don't care if people immune to historical facts buy it or not

the historical record > your uninformed opinion 

facts don't care about your feelings

Edited July 23, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[August1991]

On 7/19/2022 at 2:07 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

it will peak prior to 10 billion

that isn't an issue

the aging and decline of the population will be a vastly bigger issue

and it is already a problem today and will impact the economy for decades in a negative way

with baby boomers entering mass retirement and nowhere near enough people to replace them

Gen X is too small and didn't have enough Gen Z kids

and the Baby Boomers didn't have enough Millennial kids either

You make the same point of my OP.

====

We in the West no longer face the threat of Communism. (Kennedy wanted to put a man on the moon to show to poor countries that the US was better than the Soviets.)

We in the West now face the prospect of dying - while many people are born in poor countries.

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IMHO, there is a great disconnect.

Some people believe that knowledge is like DNA - it travels naturally to each generation. Nothing could be further from the way knowledge works. We are not born knowing how to read or tie a shoelace. And within a generation, we could easily revert to being feral mammals.

Edited July 23, 2022 by August1991

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, August1991 said:

You make the same point of my OP.

====

We in the West no longer face the threat of Communism. (Kennedy wanted to put a man on the moon to show to poor countries that the US was better than the Soviets.)

We in the West now face the prospect of dying - while many people are born in poor countries.

-----

IMHO, there is a great disconnect.

Some people believe that knowledge is like DNA - it travels naturally to each generation. Nothing could be further from the way knowledge works. We are not born knowing how to read or tie a shoelace. And within a generation, we could easily revert to being feral mammals.

the threat of communism persists

it's just more of an internal threat than an external one now