Restrictions Continue for the Vaccinated

[dialamah]

27 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t buy that anymore.  I couldn’t see a doctor face to face when the hospitals were empty in early summer.   Our hospitals were never full.  Yes the burnout in hospitals is real and we need to keep hospitalizations in check, but we’re not there yet in most of the country, not even close.  

Have you been into emergency, ICU or the Covid wards of any hospital?

[myata]

800 cases / 12.5 million adult population = 64 cases / million. The risk of a traffic accident injury (before Covid) 0.6% = 6 / 1000 = 6,000 / million.

New and effective early treatments have been found and approved. Are they used whenever and wherever needed, timely and effectively, with sufficient supply to prevent escalation of cases and free emergency and ICU capacity?

Or are the panacea marches and ICU dramas being used to distract from and cover a stressed, under-capacity and outdated emergency care system on which countless public billions were spent in the decades of "fixing for a generation"?

Edited September 4, 2021 by myata

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, myata said:

800 cases / 12.5 million adult population = 64 cases / million. The risk of a traffic accident injury (before Covid) 0.6% = 6 / 1000 = 6,000 / million.

 

This is PER DAY. Multiply the risk by 180 and you get the risk till March or 700 you get the next 2 years when they expect it to end if this low vaccination continues (under 85% of population).

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Have you been into emergency, ICU or the Covid wards of any hospital?

Yes

[myata]

9 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

This is PER DAY. Multiply the risk by 180 and you get the risk till March or 700 you get the next 2 years when they expect it to end if this low vaccination continues (under 85% of population).

Correct, my bad. And 64 times 365 i.e. the risk of being infected in a year (not a hospitalization!), assuming the current trend, would be approximately 3 - 4 times higher than the risk of an injury in a traffic accident . And for a great majority of people under 50, even non vaccinated, the objective risk of hospitalization is very small.

Edited September 4, 2021 by myata

[dialamah]

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes

From a nurse at Kelowna General Hospital, after the protests:

In a career of ICU nursing, I have seen SARS, H1N1, Ebola, and many more. COVID has been a game-changer. Our ICU is completely full and overflowing with COVID patients. Many of them continue to die.

You have no idea what goes on within these walls. You don’t see us.

So many hospital staff have echoed what this nurse is saying, I'm pretty skeptical about your claim. 

So tell us, how many emergency rooms, ICUs, Covid wards have you actually been to?  Where were they?  What were the case counts in the community the hospital(s) served? 

Because claiming that thousands of people in Canada and around the world are lying because you happened upon a hospital that had no or few Covid cases is not very clear thinking.

Edited September 4, 2021 by dialamah

[myata]

And once again, "ICU is full" in itself tells nothing without objective information on quality and capacity of the medical emergency response system. I knew someone way before Covid who with a head injury had to spend 6 hours in ER waiting for a scan then another hour, to see a doctor. How would a system like that respond to a once-in-a-century pandemic? Poorly managed system can certainly have insufficient capacity due to poor planning and inefficient and less effective operation.

Certainly, an adequate system can still be in an extraordinary situation cannot predict everything. Is it adequate though, this is a big question here. Is it fair to transfer and load the problems of the system on the population, and with a honest look that it's exactly as it should be?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

From a nurse at Kelowna General Hospital, after the protests:

In a career of ICU nursing, I have seen SARS, H1N1, Ebola, and many more. COVID has been a game-changer. Our ICU is completely full and overflowing with COVID patients. Many of them continue to die.

You have no idea what goes on within these walls. You don’t see us.

So many hospital staff have echoed what this nurse is saying, I'm pretty skeptical about your claim. 

So tell us, how many emergency rooms, ICUs, Covid wards have you actually been to?  Where were they?  What were the case counts in the community the hospital(s) served? 

Because claiming that thousands of people in Canada and around the world are lying because you happened upon a hospital that had no or few Covid cases is not very clear thinking.

You’re just too radical in your outlook on a range of issues, from supporting partial birth abortions to permanent masked lockdowns and other forms of leftist fascism.  I have family and friends working at high levels of healthcare and I work in management in a front line field that I won’t disclose. My last two weeks have consisted of the implementation and enforcement of last minute government Covid policy decisions that are causing shit storms in the workplace.  Much of it is blunt and unnecessary, but it’s happening because our governments have decided that no restrictions are sufficient in combination— mandatory vaccination, masking, distancing, wearing of visors, vaccine passports— to tame a pandemic that represents a mild health risk where I live.

What’s more, with close to 80% of eligible people vaccinated in the GTA and likely another 5% or so having antibodies since getting the virus, we are being told to live under continued restrictions with no firm end date in site and threats of a 4th wave.  Don’t forget coming boosters and endless threats of variants.  Only fools at this point can believe that freedoms will be returned any time soon.  Summer was a brief reprieve that didn’t restore our freedom and mental health.

Ontario has around 25000 acute care beds and around 200 people hospitalized with Covid now.  We are driving our whole society down, damaging businesses and individuals, removing freedoms and personal responsibility, in the name of what has become a moderate threat like the flu, now that most of the eligible population is vaccinated.  The madness needs to stop and people have to demand that governments lift all restrictions.   I don’t see this mess ending any time soon because leaders are cowed by sensationalism, public health purists, and international pressure.  

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re just too radical in your outlook on a range of issues, from supporting partial birth abortions to permanent masked lockdowns and other forms of leftist fascism.

?

[myata]

Without objective evidence that the emergency system is in good state offloading the problems on the population is unfair and not even talking about that, pretending that the issue does not exist and the arbitrary population-wide limitations is the only possible direction, misleading bordering on manipulative.

[BubberMiley]

17 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yeah facetious, but we communicate a tremendous amount of expression through our mouths, noses, and facial expressions.  The destruction of community and connection due to masking is significant, apart from the discomfort.  I don’t think we breathe through our dicks, last I checked.  

But there's a rational scientific reasoning for face coverings. Your fascist dick-covering laws only exist to appease those who don't want to look at them and, for some reason, can't look away.

[Zeitgeist]

15 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

This is PER DAY. Multiply the risk by 180 and you get the risk till March or 700 you get the next 2 years when they expect it to end if this low vaccination continues (under 85% of population).

It’s not really about the number of cases anymore because most cases among the vaccinated are mild and most cases under 12 are mild.  If everyone eligible to get a vaccine got vaccinated then most cases would be among the vaccinated based on sheer volume of vaccinated people.  It’s somewhat meaningless without looking at hospitalizations and deaths.  Talking about percentage increases in cases when overall numbers are low is misleading.

The facts are that in almost all parts of Canada there’s a large surplus of available acute care beds, even in former hotspots like the GTA.  What’s driving the current scare is sensational headlines and amplified exceptions to the general trend of very low hospitalization and death rates for the vaccinated and under 12’s.

Essentially we’re living restricted lives to protect people who have freely chosen to take their chances with Covid.  Why?  To keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed?  I don’t buy it with so many available beds.   The reason people are becoming cynical about government overreach is because as vaccination levels grow and approach herd immunity people are being forced to use vaccine passports, told that they don’t have discretion over the choice to get vaccinated, and are made to wear masks and adhere to continued restrictions.  Where’s the upside?  What was vaccination for?  The longer restrictions continue, especially when new ones are continually added, the more upset and suspicious people become, and rightly so.

Without an end date for restrictions, there’s no compelling reason to believe restrictions will end.

[Argus]

21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t buy that anymore.  I couldn’t see a doctor face to face when the hospitals were empty in early summer.   Our hospitals were never full.  Yes the burnout in hospitals is real and we need to keep hospitalizations in check, but we’re not there yet in most of the country, not even close.  

https://globalnews.ca/news/8166173/alberta-postpones-surgeries-covid-19-hospital-demand/

 

[myata]

Wtheck is "vaccination status unknown" (CBC radio)? Why is it "unknown" if health card was needed to book it in the system? St(andar)d creativity will never run out, that one thing we can count on always and way before the virus walks in to hand in its surrender.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8166173/alberta-postpones-surgeries-covid-19-hospital-demand/

 

That’s Alberta, with one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country, and it’s not out of control.