The delta race

[Dougie93]

at which point, neither my British nor American side is with Canada

just like Britain & America, I refuse to follow Canada where it insists on going

my British side says that Canada is not even British anymore, they are tearing all that down

and Canada is not really America's friends nor allies, the vast majority of Canadians fear & loathe America in fact

so f*ck Canada, nobody is with them, enjoy being kicked around by your new Asiatic overlords from China

[Dougie93]

if it gets bad enough, I guess I'll have to move to Florida with Zeitgeist

Florida is really where most Canadians dream of living anyways

unlike most Snowbirds tho, I've got right of return to Florida

[myata]

I would say it's a difficult predicament. Canada is way past its youth age but it has not created much in way of its own, working for this country and its people effective framework and institutions of responsible democracy. And that would leave us in a difficult position if the performance of the ruling bureaucracy keeps deteriorating with no options or even directions of improvement. Like we don't like learning all anew at older age.

Consider a hypothetical possibility of the next Covid being 50-100 times more deadly with 5-10x incubation time, months not weeks. The infamously carefree "travel from Wuhan" could cause a national disaster with millions lives lost and unknown of infected. And there was little unknown about it as there were warnings like SARS and MERS in two decades. Inability to learn lessons and change in this century can spell many a trouble.

Edited June 4, 2021 by myata

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

I would say it's a difficult predicament. Canada is way past it's youth age but it has not created much in way of its own, working for this country and its people effective framework and institutions of responsible democracy. And that would leave us in a difficult position if the performance of ruling bureaucracy keeps deteriorating with no options or even directions of improvement. Like we don't like learning all anew at older age.

it's right down in the DNA of Canada

Canada is and always a colony, Canadian culture is that of colonists who rely on foriegn powers to run its affairs

I mean, right back to the founding of Canada on 22 June 1603

that was the House of Bourbon from Paris

then when Canada was taken as a war prize in 1763

that was the House of Hanover from London

then the collapse of the British Empire from 1916 onwards

that made Canada a colony of America

culture is destiny, Canadians don't take responsibility for Canada, because Canada is a colony not a country

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Or, here's a better metaphor: the deck is full of idiots screaming at the captain that he's a racist or that he's a culture canceller and he can't steer.

I think we are onboard the Titanic and captain Smith is being harassed and threatened by corporate interests.

It's a doomed ship, ship of fools

bad omen, unforseeable circumstance

those who make effigies of straw dogs are used to seeing them burn,

in a fire

[Michael Hardner]

43 minutes ago, myata said:

1.How would we know whether it's better or worse one?
2. Have we thought of, or created the mechanisms, instruments and tools to determine the effectiveness of government and hold it to be effective and accountable?  

1. Whether what is ?
2. Yes... the right to free expression sets the table for individual actors and institutions to assess government and convince others.  The method to hold it is elections.

Democracy is built on a foundation of media infrastructure that moderates how we discuss things, and now with social media we have individuals with the ability to mass broadcast messages.

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. I think we are onboard the Titanic and captain Smith is being harassed and threatened by corporate interests. It's a doomed ship, ship of fools

2. those who make effigies of straw dogs are used to seeing them burn,

3. in a fire

1. And yet you noticed it ?
2. Relevance ?
3. Did you need to specify this ?  I don't think anyone has ever burned a straw dog in a toaster oven

.

[OftenWrong]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. And yet you noticed it ?
2. Relevance ?
3. Did you need to specify this ?  I don't think anyone has ever burned a straw dog in a toaster oven

.

Straw dogs are worshipped in another culture, as if they are divine. But they are only made of straw. So at the end of the festival, they are torn down, trampled upon, lit on fire and dragged through the streets.

So this was a metaphor for the poor state of politics in Canada.

3. Yes

[myata]

39 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Democracy is built on a foundation of media infrastructure that moderates how we discuss things, and now with social media we have individuals with the ability to mass broadcast messages.

The media does not not make a government bureaucrat accountable and responsible. It isn't their role even if they function competently and impartially that was not always the case. Ultimately, its up to the citizens to have the authority that they accept, care for and deserve. Democracy is not a given, but the result, product of the citizens work. And if they couldn't or wouldn't care what's left by default is this: vague, mediocre, grossly overpaid, never accountable and responsible to nobody, like it or not there's no other and not even a possibility.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

1. The media does not not make a government bureaucrat accountable and responsible. It isn't their role even if they function competently and impartially that was not always the case.

2. Ultimately, its up to the citizens to have the authority that they accept, care for and deserve.

3. Democracy is not a given, but the result, product of the citizens work. And if they couldn't or wouldn't care what's left by default is this: vague, mediocre, grossly overpaid, never accountable and responsible to nobody, like it or not there's no other and not even a possibility.

1.  "mechanisms, instruments and tools to determine the effectiveness of government " (the press) "and hold it to be effective and accountable" ... the press does it by proxy.
2.  Agreed
3. The machine of democracy is unsustainable right now.

[myata]

54 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. The machine of democracy is unsustainable right now.

The situation reminds of a toy truck given to a child for birthday. It rumbled and ran for a while then the battery started running low slowed and jolted then stopped. Pull it up, shake a bit there's noise the wheels turning but not going anywhere. And no one has a clue how it can be fixed or if for that matter.

[myata]

Ironic that we're trying to make the AI (machine intelligence) explain its decisions in clear human language while the bureaucracy is long and far past that. Even if it could still try, why even bother no seriously?

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, myata said:

 And no one has a clue how it can be fixed or if for that matter.

Liberal democracy means that the solution will present itself.

 

[myata]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Liberal democracy means that the solution will present itself.

Yet the history of evolution tells us that there's no assurances and guarantees. Some species change and prosper others go into oblivion.

[OftenWrong]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Liberal democracy means that the solution will present itself.

 

It’s guaranteed.

[Michael Hardner]

36 minutes ago, myata said:

Yet the history of evolution tells us that there's no assurances and guarantees. Some species change and prosper others go into oblivion.

I would bet that religion becomes utterly obsolete.

[OftenWrong]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I would bet that religion becomes utterly obsolete.

Same with art. And dreaming. Man is the pinnacle, the apex, thou shalt have nothing before him. And the embodiment of such greatness is... dear leader.

See how I did that there?

[OftenWrong]

On 6/4/2021 at 7:30 AM, myata said:

A well-meaning (and very well paid, by the public) bureaucrat(s) just get to decide what is good for the public, in its ultimate interests and what the public will do (and not) to get there.

The "Health Authority" is not an elected position, yet were given god-like powers to shut things down. There is no limit to how far their reach extends, nor for how long they can keep society under what is essentially house arrest. They could continue a stay-at-home order indefinitely, and over as broad a region as they like.
But not to worry, it's all good, all good.

Neither is there an recourse for the public to contest these things, while courts are shuttered and backlogged.

Ontario’s Superior Court of Justice to defer cases due to COVID-19 pandemic
By Staff The Canadian Press
Posted April 21, 2021 1:05 pm

But not to worry, it's all good, all good.

More disturbing is the seemingly whimsical approach, as when the top doctor is saying "I'd like to see it stay that way just a little longer". Anyone can see the vacillations. They don't know.

But, not to worry. It's understandable.

 

[myata]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

But not to worry, it's all good, all good.

More disturbing is the seemingly whimsical approach, as when the top doctor is saying "I'd like to see it stay that way just a little longer". Anyone can see the vacillations. They don't know.

The hard and at times painful experience and the resulting conclusion that an authority without accountability, responsibility and checks by the citizens can be anywhere from inefficient to disastrous counts centuries if not millennia (Roman republic). Exactly for this reasons checks, balances, independent institutions were created.

Just normal, evolutionary and biological self-preservation. Nothing is gained by taking into account factors that are not included into the result - reward scheme. And the only result associated with reward is the Number. Makes perfect sense.

[myata]

In Germany courts had no problem with throwing out unnecessary and overreaching orders by health authorities. Shouldn't be too hard to find examples.

Checks and oversight over any authority are fundamental to the democracy and undermining them can be a far greater problem than any epidemics. Guess democracies aren't all same. There are democracies and democracies.

Edited June 5, 2021 by myata

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, myata said:

Guess democracies aren't all same. There are democracies and democracies.

Exactly. Or like my pappy used to say,

"Ya got yer democracy, and yer domockracy. Then, there's democrazy."

I never knew what he meant, when he said that. Now I do

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Same with art. And dreaming. Man is the pinnacle, the apex, thou shalt have nothing before him. And the embodiment of such greatness is... dear leader.

See how I did that there?

Pretty clever, but you're using a religious mindset to say that or imply that religion needs to stick around I guess that's a conflict of interest?

[OftenWrong]

44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Pretty clever, but you're using a religious mindset to say that or imply that religion needs to stick around I guess that's a conflict of interest?

“God, Country, Corps”

[Michael Hardner]

37 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

“God, Country, Corps”

God Country... corpse..

[myata]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

God Country... corpse..

Nothing inherently wrong that it, a normal process in biological life. The main problem is different though: impossibility to change, to renew and adapt to the changing reality. That is always a problem, in evolution. The ticket of million year care-free existence already bought by some crab and the next one may be a few millions of years away.