1 in 5 students attending post-secondary in Canada are international students

[GrittyLeftist]

On 5/9/2021 at 10:55 AM, Argus said:

For doctors and engineers, perhaps. For gender studies and ethnic studies;nope.

I think this touches on a ongoing and important debate - should we be discouraging people from going to university for things which will not increase their earning potential?  There are reasonable arguments that can be made for both sides, but I have not read very many people arguing that non-STEM degrees have value as well, so I'll go ahead and make a brief argument in favour or things like philosophy, history, etc.

Which skills do you need to be an informed, responsible voter?  Do we try to give those skills to people in public education?  Do we do a good job?  If they don't get those skills in school, where will they get them?  There will always be more disadvantaged people than there are advantaged ones, so in a democracy, the most informed voters will be "cancelled out" by the public at large.  Are we risking accidentally creating a voting public that is not competent to elect a good government?

Which skills do you need to bear and raise children who will be useful citizens?  Same questions and problems follow.

[GrittyLeftist]

*this comment scrubbed to avoid spreading misinformation.  Thanks to Argus for the fact-check*

Edited May 10, 2021 by GrittyLeftist

[Argus]

21 hours ago, ron Young said:

Awwwe yes the old tired "woke" trope. Don't you folks ever get tired of being unwoke?

That's like asking if we get tired of having good judgement. So no. 

Do you ever get tired of having bad judgement?

Edited May 10, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

1 hour ago, GrittyLeftist said:

Which skills do you need to be an informed, responsible voter?  Do we try to give those skills to people in public education?  Do we do a good job?  If they don't get those skills in school, where will they get them?  There will always be more disadvantaged people than there are advantaged ones, so in a democracy, the most informed voters will be "cancelled out" by the public at large.  Are we risking accidentally creating a voting public that is not competent to elect a good government?

Certainly not saying all non STEM course are worthless. But some are worthless to society, like the ones mentioned. And there's no guarantee what kids are learning today from grade school on up to graduate school will produce people equipped to properly evaluate life choices. We don't teach enough about history, government, law, or the basics of economics and finance anywhere along the way. 

And who's to say what's taught in history or other liberal arts courses isn't so laden with ideological interpretations, so twisted and slanted and taken out of context it just produces more dumb ideologues?

Edited May 10, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

53 minutes ago, GrittyLeftist said:

Just a thought - in Canada, universities are privately owned, taxpayer-subsidized for-profit institutions. 

No. Universities, with only a few religious schools as exceptions, are established by the provincial governments, operate under a charter given them by the provinces, and paid for by the provinces. Which is why they're so grossly inefficient and have such bloated administrative staffs.

 

[GrittyLeftist]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

No. Universities, with only a few religious schools as exceptions, are established by the provincial governments, operate under a charter given them by the provinces, and paid for by the provinces. Which is why they're so grossly inefficient and have such bloated administrative staffs.

 

Just googled it, you are correct.  Thanks for the fact-check!

[GrittyLeftist]

17 minutes ago, Argus said:

Certainly not saying all non STEM course are worthless. But some are worthless to society, like the ones mentioned. And there's no guarantee what kids are learning today from grade school on up to graduate school will produce people equipped to properly evaluate life choices. We don't teach enough about history, government, law, or the basics of economics and finance anywhere along the way. 

And who's to say what's taught in history or other liberal arts courses isn't so laden with ideological interpretations, so twisted and slanted and taken out of context it just produces more dumb ideologues?

For sure, didn't mean to put words in your mouth there.  Agreed that those topics are under-taught nowadays, IMO our democracy suffers for it.

Yeah, I see the problem you're getting at.  For me the problem isn't ideology itself, it's that a)Most of us don't know what an ideology is or what ours is, b)Most of us lack the context and... political maturity?... to be able to engage with people of different ideologies, and c)A tiny group of people is making huge money by polluting public discourse with falsifiable untruths, bad-faith arguments, misleading information and an emphasis on provoking emotional response, rather than intellectual response.

[Aristides]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

No. Universities, with only a few religious schools as exceptions, are established by the provincial governments, operate under a charter given them by the provinces, and paid for by the provinces. Which is why they're so grossly inefficient and have such bloated administrative staffs.

 

And yet we keep tuition fees much lower than privately run US schools. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

And yet we keep tuition fees much lower than privately run US schools. 

 

And still about 3X as many Canadians (28,000) attend university in the USA (pre-covid) than Americans studying in Canada (10,000), and the U.S. population is 9 times larger.   Foreign students from Canada and other nations attend school in the U.S. because there are more opportunities for academic programs (majors), athletic scholarships, four-year instead of three year BA/BS degrees required for many post-graduate programs, and employment in specialized fields.

The U.S. has more top ranked privately and publicly funded universities/colleges than any other nation in the world, which attracts many international students, regardless of tuition cost.

[myata]

9 hours ago, Aristides said:

And yet we keep tuition fees much lower than privately run US schools. 

As always a bit better than them much worse than those. In the middle. Mediocrity. Long deep sleep. Yaaaaawn.

[Aristides]

8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

And still about 3X as many Canadians (28,000) attend university in the USA (pre-covid) than Americans studying in Canada (10,000), and the U.S. population is 9 times larger.   Foreign students from Canada and other nations attend school in the U.S. because there are more opportunities for academic programs (majors), athletic scholarships, four-year instead of three year BA/BS degrees required for many post-graduate programs, and employment in specialized fields.

The U.S. has more top ranked privately and publicly funded universities/colleges than any other nation in the world, which attracts many international students, regardless of tuition cost.

Foreign students love our universities in spite of paying five times the tuition fees. In Canada athletic scholarships are real scholarships, candidates have to meet the same academic requirements and get real degrees.