French Patriot Posted July 17, 2021 Author Report Posted July 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: There comes a point when the children are grown and they have to ensure their own survival if they don't that's on them and not the parents So you too would let your children starve or die needlessly. Ok. Regards DL Quote
French Patriot Posted July 17, 2021 Author Report Posted July 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: it is not God's job to ensure nothing bad ever happened to Adam and Eve, nor should it have been He did the opposite by putting Satan and the talking serpent in Eden to pester Eve. Regards DL Quote
Guest Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 47 minutes ago, French Patriot said: I know. You do not seem to know your duty to do so to humanity. Loving people means telling them when they do evil. Regards DL Tell them what you want. But live and let live. Quote
French Patriot Posted July 17, 2021 Author Report Posted July 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Tell them what you want. But live and let live. Contradict yourself much? I am done here if all you want to do is ignore what I put on live and let live instead of arguing your case. Regards DL Quote
Guest Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Contradict yourself much? I am done here if all you want to do is ignore what I put on live and let live instead of arguing your case. Regards DL Not at all. I live and let live. You don't. No problem, each to his own. You seem to think homophobia is more than just an attitude. A personal view. I don't see how you would possibly stop people being homophobic. Jail them until they tell you they actually like homosexuals after all? Torture them until they change their minds? As long as they don't act on their views in a harmful manner, I say, live and let live. Edit> I had to change illegal to harmful. I forgot the harm is legal in some places. Edited July 17, 2021 by bcsapper Quote
Logger guy Posted July 18, 2021 Report Posted July 18, 2021 On 7/15/2021 at 4:32 PM, bcsapper said: I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until he confirms your accusations. I'm sure that, unlike many other religious people, he is okay with gay marriage, abortion and assisted suicide. There are two types of people who like to call themselves christians. There are those who want to be godlike, and like to tell others how to live a godly life as well. They are quick to judge, and are quick to see sin in others, and proud of how they live a more righteous life. Those who judge others will be judged by the same standards. The others are those who want to be Christlike. They care for others, share with those in need, and are inclusive and accepting of their fellow man. Christ tells us to let god be god, and for us to do unto others as we would have others do unto us. Those who love and accept others will be loved and accepted as well. Quote
Logger guy Posted July 18, 2021 Report Posted July 18, 2021 On 7/7/2021 at 6:12 PM, French Patriot said: A & E did not have a free willed choice, given that they had no clue as to what parameters they were choosing from. They did not know if evil was good or good was evil and only poor thinkers like you will see a free willed choice. Of course Adam and Eve had a choice. God provided for all their needs and lived with them in paradise. All he asked in return is that they not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, because if they did, they would die. The deceiver told Eve that she would not die, and eating the fruit would make her like God. The choice was trusting God, and not facing death, or becoming like God and risking death. Of course knowing the difference between good and evil means that she was responsible to choose good. With responsibility comes accountability, or judgement. God left Eve alone with the deceiver, because she would not be free to disobey God if he was there watching, His absence meant that she could follow the desire of her heart. Of course Adam made the same choice, resulting in the separation of man and God, death and judgement. Quote
French Patriot Posted July 18, 2021 Author Report Posted July 18, 2021 18 hours ago, bcsapper said: Not at all. I live and let live. You don't. No problem, each to his own. You seem to think homophobia is more than just an attitude. A personal view. I don't see how you would possibly stop people being homophobic. Jail them until they tell you they actually like homosexuals after all? Torture them until they change their minds? As long as they don't act on their views in a harmful manner, I say, live and let live. Edit> I had to change illegal to harmful. I forgot the harm is legal in some places. Interesting that you think homophobes cannot be taught to not hate without a cause. Live and let live has you sitting back and letting immoral homophobes abuse gays without a just cause. They put sex above love and that shows their evil ways. Go away and let me live and let you live in your immoral thinking. Regards DL Quote
French Patriot Posted July 18, 2021 Author Report Posted July 18, 2021 10 hours ago, Logger guy said: Of course Adam and Eve had a choice. God provided for all their needs and lived with them in paradise. All he asked in return is that they not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, because if they did, they would die. The deceiver told Eve that she would not die, and eating the fruit would make her like God. The choice was trusting God, and not facing death, or becoming like God and risking death. Of course knowing the difference between good and evil means that she was responsible to choose good. With responsibility comes accountability, or judgement. God left Eve alone with the deceiver, because she would not be free to disobey God if he was there watching, His absence meant that she could follow the desire of her heart. Of course Adam made the same choice, resulting in the separation of man and God, death and judgement. Should A & E have followed the command to stay stupid and not touch knowledge? As to free choice. They had none. The choice you see is the tree of knowledge or life. Would you choose a life of stupidity and ignorance of good and evil. IOW or would you choose not to be a vegetable brain? A & E did not know what good or evil was and only the stupid will say they had a free choice. Regards DL Quote
Guest Posted July 18, 2021 Report Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, French Patriot said: Interesting that you think homophobes cannot be taught to not hate without a cause. Live and let live has you sitting back and letting immoral homophobes abuse gays without a just cause. They put sex above love and that shows their evil ways. Go away and let me live and let you live in your immoral thinking. Regards DL What is it with this site that people have to invent things to argue against. I would not let anyone abuse anyone. I'm not going to to tell them what to think, though. You have to have your own way with them, don't you? Sounds religious. Edited July 18, 2021 by bcsapper Quote
French Patriot Posted July 18, 2021 Author Report Posted July 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, bcsapper said: What is it with this site that people have to invent things to argue against. I would not let anyone abuse anyone. I'm not going to to tell them what to think, though. You have to have your own way with them, don't you? Sounds religious. Now I invented homophobia and misogyny. Go away. Regards DL Quote
Guest Posted July 18, 2021 Report Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, French Patriot said: Now I invented homophobia and misogyny. Go away. Regards DL You didn't invent it, but you do seem to want to control it in others, way beyond what you have any right to do. What you did invent was what I would do about it. You go away? Edited July 18, 2021 by bcsapper Quote
French Patriot Posted July 18, 2021 Author Report Posted July 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, bcsapper said: You didn't invent it, but you do seem to want to control it in others, way beyond what you have any right to do. What you did invent was what I would do about it. You go away? Yes. Quickly. Regards DL Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted July 18, 2021 Report Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, French Patriot said: He did the opposite by putting Satan and the talking serpent in Eden to pester Eve. Regards DL 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Should A & E have followed the command to stay stupid and not touch knowledge? As to free choice. They had none. The choice you see is the tree of knowledge or life. Would you choose a life of stupidity and ignorance of good and evil. IOW or would you choose not to be a vegetable brain? A & E did not know what good or evil was and only the stupid will say they had a free choice. Regards DL there is clearly a choice to be made there, with dire consequences regardless of the choice God did not make the decision for them, they made it for themselves your contention that they were mere dolls and God made all their choices for them is obviously wrong Edited July 18, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote
French Patriot Posted July 18, 2021 Author Report Posted July 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: there is clearly a choice to be made there, with dire consequences regardless of the choice God did not make the decision for them, they made it for themselves Technically, that is a lie, given that Yahweh put the deceiver in Eden with the purpose of deceiving. Would you take the serpent's god given job in the story away from it? If you did and there was another choice made, we would not be here as A & E were too stupid to know of reproduction. That is why Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan. Seems you want god's plan derailed. Regards DL Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted July 18, 2021 Report Posted July 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, French Patriot said: Technically, that is a lie, given that Yahweh put the deceiver in Eden with the purpose of deceiving. Would you take the serpent's god given job in the story away from it? If you did and there was another choice made, we would not be here as A & E were too stupid to know of reproduction. That is why Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan. Seems you want god's plan derailed. Regards DL if he didn't put the serpent in the garden, there would have been no choice and you would claim he was evil for not putting him there Quote
OftenWrong Posted July 18, 2021 Report Posted July 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, French Patriot said: Technically, that is a lie, given that Yahweh put the deceiver in Eden with the purpose of deceiving. It wasn't a deceiver, snake told the truth. You might say it was God who used a deception. Or you might call it a trial. To me it is a metaphor. The snake proposed an alternate point of view. Eve commits an act of free will. Morality opens her eyes. The human ascends to a higher order of creature, challenging the gods. There is a lot of symbolism here, and a lot that's difficult to get unless you read other books. Having said that, if I see a snake I do want to crush its head. No, not really. But you seem rather serpentine to me. That's why I keep my boots on, around here. Quote
French Patriot Posted July 18, 2021 Author Report Posted July 18, 2021 22 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: if he didn't put the serpent in the garden, there would have been no choice and you would claim he was evil for not putting him there ?? Now you are a mind reader as well as a poor thinker. If I ask you to choose between two variables of which you have no knowledge or description, can you make an intelligent choice? Regards DL Quote
French Patriot Posted July 18, 2021 Author Report Posted July 18, 2021 22 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: It wasn't a deceiver, snake told the truth. You might say it was God who used a deception. Or you might call it a trial. To me it is a metaphor. The snake proposed an alternate point of view. Eve commits an act of free will. Morality opens her eyes. The human ascends to a higher order of creature, challenging the gods. There is a lot of symbolism here, and a lot that's difficult to get unless you read other books. Having said that, if I see a snake I do want to crush its head. No, not really. But you seem rather serpentine to me. That's why I keep my boots on, around here. I guess that you have ignored that the serpent is the most respected creature in religions. What head was on Moses staff? What emblem is the Jewish priesthood using? What is the medical emblem? All serpents. Regards DL Quote
French Patriot Posted July 18, 2021 Author Report Posted July 18, 2021 24 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: it was God who used a deception. This is closer to correct than blaming a serpent under god's direct control. Regards DL Quote
OftenWrong Posted July 18, 2021 Report Posted July 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, French Patriot said: This is closer to correct than blaming a serpent under god's direct control. Regards DL If you say so. I'll be talking to the big guy later tonight at beddie-byes, will let him know of your concerns. And that you have a better idea. Quite sure he'll get on them right away. - Oftenwrong Quote
Logger guy Posted July 19, 2021 Report Posted July 19, 2021 10 hours ago, French Patriot said: If you did and there was another choice made, we would not be here as A & E were too stupid to know of reproduction. I see that building credibility is not all that important to you. You might want to be careful how you throw the word stupid around. In your case it seems a little like urinating into the wind. Quote
Logger guy Posted July 19, 2021 Report Posted July 19, 2021 11 hours ago, French Patriot said: Technically, that is a lie, given that Yahweh put the deceiver in Eden with the purpose of deceiving. Wrong again. It was an enemy that planted the tares. You probably won’t find that on YouTube though. Quote
French Patriot Posted July 19, 2021 Author Report Posted July 19, 2021 Wrong, without showing it. You win this one. Regards DL Quote
Logger guy Posted July 19, 2021 Report Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Wrong, without showing it. You win this one. Regards DL Seems you are a bigger man than I assumed, which means that I am probably a smaller man than I assumed. You have earned a measure of respect . Regards Logger guy Quote
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